hawthorn have been very good the last 2 weeks - I am not too concerned either way - would love a west coast eagle v sydney classic result.

I've been saying since about round 16 that it is West Coast's Premiership to lose this year.
Hope they finish the job next week.

Whatever result I am happy....Dockers have lost, the players and fans crying.....

551463 - to answer your question, every AFL Grand Final for the next 20 or 30 years (not sure exactly the amount...but a hell of a long time)Has to be played at the MCG because of the contractual agreement between the AFL and the MCC or MCG (Not 100% sure which). I personally hope it always stays this way (and i am an Adelaide fan), because the "G" is the home of this great game...(plus it holds SO MUCH MORE than any other stadium in this country!)

The G Man, that's the problem with the AFL, it is all about these "traditions" over common sense. Having said that, from a spectacle/atmosphere point of view having 100,000 capacity vs 42,000 capacity is no small difference. But for me, the competition must be the most important thing and it just doesn't seem right considering how big home ground advantage is for West Coast. It could very well be the difference between winning or losing the title, just in the name of tradition/money.

I guess the NFL Superbowl is similar in that it is held at a set venue for that year regardless of participants, the only difference being in the AFL the set venue is the home ground for a lot of the teams.

What do you guys think will happen once this 20-30 year deal with the MCG expires? Will it be rotated around different grounds or will it actually be awarded to the correct home team?

The other stupid "tradition" thing the AFL likes is the umpires bouncing the ball. Never seen a sillier thing than when they bounce it inaccurately, call it back and throw it up. A waste of a few seconds whenever that happens, just in the name of tradition. If it's a traditional thing or a way of acknowledging the unique bounce of the game's ball, then don't call it back, just let the ball fly where it may.

Not only do Hawthorn get the game at their home ground, they get to wear their home guernsey. West Coast will be forced to wear their clash guernsey.

Because Melbourne.

IMHO this isn't a clash game at all:

WCE playing strip is Blue/white/yellow, they wear blue shorts and their number is white on a blue back.

Hawks playing strip is Brown/gold, they wear brown shorts and have a brown number on a gold back.

Why are they doing this, makes no sense to me?
Anyway, is I was WCE I would just go with their original strip of blue, with the gold wing stripes as the clash top, problem solved...

Because the Eagles finished higher they did,have the choice on what playing strip they wanted to wear. The Eagles chose their away playing strip, royal blue with yellow and blue shorts. Which is their best outfit and the one they have worn in all their grand finals. Go Eagles

Hawks will win by 20+pts. Freo fans seem really feral.

Hawks have already alluded to the game plan, like last year they will go out to intimidate their opposition early, why, because they have the finals experience to control their emotions and get back to playing football and scoring goals after beating up on their opponents.

Less experienced finals teams, like Freo or teams that are not prepared for this tactic like last year the Swans in the GF, can't recover in time and once the Hawks gain control it can be too hard to fight back in time.

The officiating in last year's GF was a disgrace, especially early on and I was an impartial observer, so in my opinion it favoured the Hawks!

If the umpires once again allow Hawthorn a free reign to jump into their opponents backs, hold them off the ball and illegally tackle or block them, they will gain an early ascendancy but more importantly get into the Eagle's heads making them look over their shoulders for the remainder of the game.

I hope this doesn't happen and the Eagle fight fire with fire early on, but the Hawks are masters of the thuggery style of game.

If the Eagles can stay close, in the final minutes, it could be a cracker of a game, I am hoping for a close one, good luck to both teams!

My prediction is, there will be blood...

The best that Hawthorn can bring is better than anything that anyone else can do.

Hawthorn has returned to form over the past 2 weeks. Not their *best* form, but good form. They're primed and look ready to win this game.

Meanwhile the Eagles had a close win over North Melbourne where they were assisted by some dubious umpiring decisions at critical stages late in the game. They also have minimal finals experience in their line up.

So my prediction is a comfortable Hawthorn win. But I really hope I'm wrong- go the Eagles, beat those damned Hawkers.

Tough one to pick. The best footy of both sides is exceptional. I also think we match up with the Hawks a lot better than we do against the Roos, so I don't take too much negativity out of the prelim.

If pressed and I had to tip a winner, I'd probably have to say that the Hawks experience will get them over the line on the big stage. They've got proven big game players and will not be overawed on the day. West Coast looked very nervy on Saturday, not just in general play but we also got the yips in front of goal, and that can really get into your head & be fatal, as Freo showed in the 2013 GF. Both prelim losers failed to capitalise on good opportunities to increase their early dominance.

Carn Eagles!!

I'm surprised that Hawthorn is $1.60 for the win. I would’ve said $1.40 or $1.50 was the right odds.

Some punters must be taking heart from the fact that the Eagles dominated them in the prelim. But Hawthorn went over there and beat them a few weeks before that.

History shows us that teams rarely win a premiership on their first trip to the finals. The further you get into the finals, the more experience matters.

West Coast stumbled over the line with serious umpiring assistance against a team who would have to be one of the weaker preliminary finals sides in recent memory. North Melbourne were lucky that the AFL let them throw a match in round 23, to create a favourable first round matchup against a team they play well against and hadn’t lost to since 2011, and then they got another stroke of luck by getting to play a Sydney team minus Buddy, Reid, Parker, etc. West Coast had a week off and North were travelling for the second week in a row- really, if West Coast were for real then they should’ve won comfortably. But they looked very shaky and had to rely on the umps to bail them out with some horrendous calls.

As you can tell, I’m not sold on the Eagles. But- this is a grand final. As the VFL grand final showed us yesterday when the red hot favourite Box Hill Hawks got destroyed by Williamstown, anything can happen. Hopefully a blue and yellow team triumphing against the Hawks was a sign of things to come this weekend!

Eagles dominated them 2 weeks ago, I meant to say

Oh and another reason I'm not sold on the Eagles...

They had a pretty cosy fixture this season. The AFL gives the bottom teams easier scheduling than the top sides, and they were a beneficiary after failing to make the 8 last season.

So yes, West Coast finished second on the ladder, but they had an easier road to get there than plenty of the teams who finished not too far beneath them.

Again, sincerely hope I’m wrong….

"West Coast stumbled over the line with serious umpiring assistance"
I know that was one of the big talking points after the game, but it's also way overblown IMO.
There were a couple of shockers in our favour for sure, but a) we would have won anyway, and b) we should have won by a lot more. Kicking 10.20 with so many of those being regulation set shots made the margin look flattering. The game was all but in the bag at the final break after a 5 goal to 1 3rd term.

Hawks kicked an amazingly accurate 15.4 and their final margin was a whole 2 points better than West Coast's. Both GF participants have better footy in them than this weekend showed.

Actually, I take that last post back re: Fixture.

They played the Dogs, Crows, Saints, Suns and Dockers twice- overall, fairly average.

I remember reading an article at the start of the season that commented on how easy their draw was. But- every single one of those teams, with the exception of the Suns, exceeded expectations this season. So in the end, it wasn't actually that easy a fixture.

Yeah you are right, no doubt West Coast can play better.

But my point was this: the Eagles were playing on their home ground against a weak preliminary final opponent. Hawthorn had to travel to the other side of the country and play the Dockers- who, as you would know, play incredibly disciplined football and who have been a perennial top 4 side for several years now.

And the Hawks were the more convincing victor for mine. They were challenged a couple of times by spirited fight backs, but still never really looked like losing after quarter time. In contrast the Eagles struggled through the first half and only properly got on top late in the third quarter with some umpiring help.

If the Eagles play like that first half against Hawthorn then you can forget about it- Hawthorn will do what they did to Adelaide. I was at the MCG that night- the buzz was gone from the crowd after 25 minutes and never returned. Adelaide weren't intense enough and Hawthorn pounced. Hawthorn regularly puts on 5 or 6 goals in 10 or 15 minutes- if West Coast lapses for a quarter, or if they play like they did against North, it’ll be all she wrote by quarter time. And when you’re travelling in a final, making up a lead is all that much harder.

It was an easier than average draw for us, but the point is that unlike other recent seasons we still beat most of the good teams we played.

The only teams we failed against were North - a team that matches up well against us, and the Hawks - who got us by 2 goals in a game we were missing both our starting rucks.
Nic Nat will be key for us on Saturday.

Yeah, if we're basing this discussion purely on results this season though, then I'd probably call this a slight advantage Hawks. But I'd be expecting a very close game, given how West Coast smashed them in that first final.

Grand Finals are a different beast. History teaches that experience matters. That's the main reason I'm tipping a comfortable Hawthorn win.

Anything can happen though.

I think the key for the Eagles is starting well. When travelling in finals, it's easy to be blown off the park like Adelaide were in the first half, or like Sydney were in last year's grand final. And never recover.

If West Coast is in front at the half then I give them a very good shot at winning. If Hawthorn has major momentum or has a 4 goal lead an half time (usually a margin from which you could come back) then I can't see the Eagles having the slightest chance.

Anonymous- I'm a St Kilda fan.

You can't have been reading very closely.

I've already mentioned several times in this thread that I want Hawthorn to lose! I'm sick of them.

Because the Eagles finished higher they did,have the choice on what playing strip they wanted to wear. The Eagles chose their away playing strip, royal blue with yellow and blue shorts.

Mate those are not just my opinions. All of these are either facts or fairly well established consensus:

- North Melbourne won 13 games for the season and finished 8th.
- North were allowed to rest 9 players for round 23. Including (off the top of my head) Dal Santo, Goldstein, Waite, Swallow- etc- some of their top players anyway.
- North subsequently lost in round 23 and that result guaranteed a match against Richmond- who they had not lost to since 2011. (Apart from the round 23 practice match). "Guaranteed" unless Sydney were to somehow lose at home to Gold Coast.
- North then played a severely depleted Sydney team missing several good players.

- West Coast got a number of dubious umpiring decisions go their way against North Melbourne. Two obvious examples off the top of my head:
- West Coast free kick, giving them a shot at goal that opened up a 10 point lead during the third quarter (47-37).
- North Melbourne player getting tripped, 20 metres out from goal. No free kick. From memory this was early in the last quarter when the Roos were still well and truly in the contest.

None of this is controversial. Fairly hilarious that you're calling it "Victorian bias".

LV you might be using some of the facts to your convenience, so to speak. For example, whilst North Melbourne had a very good record against Richmond, that did not assure them anything and I am quite sure most people had Richmond as favourites for that game and as a dark horse contender, given their form over the course of the season which had seen them register wins over Hawthorn, Fremantle and Sydney.

Also, whilst those free kick examples you quote were obviously fortunate for West Coast, I think by that stage West Coast were well on top in general play and it would have only been a matter of the final margin. The number of scoring shots they were having was a truer indication of how much they were outplaying North.

I tipped North.

Generally in sports, if it's a fairly close call and one team has beaten the other 6 or 7 times in a row, then you go with them.

It was a great mystery to me why they were $2.30 outsiders for that game when they'd specifically engineered preceedings to get that match up.

Both teams missed some chances in that first half. Both should've had an extra 2 or 3 goals in the first half. At least.

True that West Coast were getting on top- I'm just saying they got a little help and it was an unconvincing win.

(My comment about both teams missing chances in first half was North vs WC). Neither team really seized the moment- which of course, the Eagles will have to do if they want half a chance of beating Hawthorn on the MCG

Yep, but it's inconsistent of the AFL to penalise teams for tanking but only in certain circumstances. ie: When they're trying to get draft picks for future success, but not when trying to freshen up players for future success.

The AFL is contemplating a ridiculous 17-5 idea just to fix this blight on the game, and we have Rossy Lyon and Scott to thank for that.

North might have peaked at the right time of year but my comment stands- North Melbourne of 2014 and 2015 is one of the weaker prelim final sides in recent memory. I didn't say it was a "fluke" I said they got two favourable match ups.

PS: The NBA comparison is flat out ridiculous.

The Spurs roster is full of thirty somethings trying to get through a 9 month season of 82 regular season games then playoffs (which the Spurs have made 18 years in a row). You're talking apples and oranges.

Why is everyone saying West Coast smashed Hawthorn in that qualifying final? It was a reasonably comfortable victory but I didn't think it was that one sided. 30 odd points is not a thrashing for mine. If I'm Hawthorn I'm not too concerned about that result because if they address a few issues then they're right there. Whereas if they had've lost by 10 goals then you can call that a thrashing that would still be on their minds.

Anon- yes, concept is the same. But when there's 82 games, there’s less meaning in each individual outcome. The AFL only has 23 rounds, so each match counts for relatively more. And the AFL allowed North Melbourne to turn Friday night footy on the eve of the finals into a farce. And now the AFL is considering extreme moves to counter what has happened- they’re digging their own grave as far as I’m concerned. There are far easier solutions than what they are currently thinking about.

And Cute man- the Eagles vs Hawks previous encounter was over at 3 quarter time. Don’t let the final margin deceive you.

"And Cute man- the Eagles vs Hawks previous encounter was over at 3 quarter time. Don't let the final margin deceive you."

Correct

5 of the top 6

Football is far more physically brutal on ones body that basketball, hence why you can play basketball two or three times per week, but you cannot do that with football becuase the recover period needs to be longer...

I know this is really obvious to most of us, however it appears that the obvious is kind of lost to some!

Eagles ARE the better team. However in Grand Finals ANYTHING can happen, and experience COUNTS.

If this were just any ole game, OR was being played at Subi, I'd back the Eagles.
But the Eagles have played a total of FIVE games at the 'G in the past THREE years. Hawthorn have played 35, including a heap of finals.
Hawks are in their FOURTH consecutive GF. Eagles have 3 players who have played in a GF (Ellis with the Hawks, Wellingham with the pies, and Butler back in 2006.)
MAJORITY of seats at the 'G go to MCC and AFL members. They will mostly be pro-Hawthorn. Most Eagles have never played in front of such a huge (hostile) crowd.

I am an Eagles fan, so my heart is backing them, but head says this will be very difficult.

There was a fantastic article yesterday in one of the papers about the importance of kicking accuracy in recent Grand Finals. And they talked about this on Footy Classified last night too.

In 2008 Geelong dominated general play and had more inside 50's and more scoring shots, but Hawthorn kicked 18.7 to Geelong’s 11.23. This also happened to St Kilda in 2009, Collingwood in the drawn grand final of 2010, and Freo in 2013- amongst others.

So kicking accuracy is vital. We’re talking, obviously, about two very good teams and so whoever takes their chances on the day should win.

The problem for the Eagles though, is that they’re ranked 11th in the competition for scoring accuracy. Hawthorn is ranked 1st. We saw this on display last week as Hawthorn kicked 15.4 and West Coast wasted opportunity after opportunity and kicked 10.20 (North wasted plenty of chances too). The Eagles will need to kick accurately in front of goal- kick like a Hawthorn, if you like- if they’re to win on Saturday. The problem is that 19 of their 22 players will be in their first grand final, they’ll be playing on a ground they’ve played on once this season and the majority of the 100,000 strong crowd will be against them- these don’t bode well for their chances.

This is why Hawthorn deserves to be the red hot favourite in my mind (Obviously not the bookies)- if the Eagles can pull off the upset against this Hawks dynasty then I’ll consider it a classic Grand Final upset.

The Eagles biggest advantage looks to be Nic Nat- McEvoy is not a good tap ruckman and so Nic Nat should be giving the Eagles mids- who are great at winning contested ball anyway- the first use of the ball. They should be able to take advantage of this, get plenty of entries and give the likes of Kennedy plenty of opportunities.

Why is everyone saying West Coast smashed Hawthorn in that qualifying final? It was a reasonably comfortable victory but I didn't think it was that one sided. 30 odd points is not a thrashing for mine.

I don't think the QF is any guide to a Grand Final in Melbourne, but for record, the 2nd & 3rd quarters for the Eagles are the some of the best finals footy you will ever see. Eagles held the Hawks goalless in the 2nd and dismembered them in the 3rd. It was awesome to behold.
Unfortunately for the Eagles I think you only get one such game against a team like Hawthorn.

Perhaps, just perhaps, that game was an indication that the Eagles match up really well against Hawthorn.

Sometimes this happens. We saw that Geelong beat them 11 times in a row, and the streak was only defeated when Hawk Killer Paul Chapman was given one of the softest AFL suspensions you will ever see and had to miss the match, and the Hawks just got over the line in a tight finish where the Cats missed a gimme inside the last minute.

Also check out Port Adelaide's recent form against them. Matchups matter.

Perhaps the Eagles have them figured out. We'll see on Saturday.

Also- look at Richmond's record against Hawthorn since 2012.

So clearly where Hawthorn is concerned, certain teams know something that the rest don't.

Let's hope Simmo gets on the phone to Hardwick, Hinkley, Bomber and Scott this weeks and finds out the secret!

Not sure why some people (on twitter not here) are getting their panties in a bunch over the jumper issue.
The Eagles have ALWAYS worn their Royal Blue in Grand Finals. THAT is their tradition.
As "home" team (ie finished higher) they get to wear Matching shorts, whereas in the 90's they had to wear white.

The Eagles shut the Hawks kicking them by closing down the spaces and pressured them everytime the Hawks had the ball in Perth.They will have to even play better then that to win at the MCG. This game has the making of a a belter!.

Both teams are clearly the best two teams in the AFL so we'll see who wins.I'm predicting an Eagles win after they kick away around the 20 minute mark of the 4th quarter. Eagles by 14

Unfortunately my predictions in this thread turned out to be perfectly spot on.

Hawks took their chances whilst Eagles continually wasted theirs. Hawks looked like a seasoned finals outfit, where as Eagles looked overawed on the big stage.