Shame BASA Shame

The vote that was taken last night was that the change over between seasons will occur in January and not October like in the current situation. How the seasons will now run will be decided in a future meeting after BASA decide upon the possible seasons timing structure.

As has been written in another post the proposal was put forward by a staff member of BASA who believe's that the greatest single problem in basketball today is that little 8 year old Johnny who turn's 9 in December has parents who can't understand why he has to play in U/12's rather than U/10's for term 4. Not that this decision will in anyway effect the players in any age group.

The vote was 5 for and 5 against and it took a Junior Executive Committee member to vote to break the tie. The fact that this person has had no association with a club for the past 20 years shows how out of touch this group of people is. This vote also took away the deciding vote of the committee president.

So BASA administration and not the clubs has proposed the change and then voted the get the change through.

Basketball has just be pushed back 10 years in it's development by the BASA staff and some self minded clubs, who by the way have BASA staff members on their committee's.

I repeat, Shame BASA Shame.

for our junior competition, wouldn't it be sensible to run the season to correspond with school. Ie. Two seasons summer and winter. Eliminate the 'silly' season.

Both summer and winter run for 20 rounds including finals. (4 terms of 10 weeks each.)

Term 4 and 1 summer season, terms 2 and 3 the winter season.

Is this how they voted for or against last night?

No anon,

They will probably have a season of 9 rounds without finals during term 4.

"As has been written in another post the proposal was put forward by a staff member of BASA who believe's that the greatest single problem in basketball today is that little 8 year old Johnny who turn's 9 in December has parents who can't understand why he has to play in U/12's rather than U/10's for term 4. Not that this decision will in anyway effect the players in any age group."

THIS IS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM! A problem that is not actually a problem. One that can be explained very simply (see the other thread!) in less than a minute.

This explains why basketball is going backwards quicker than an Olympic rower. Who is the rocket scientist / BASA staff member who came up with this stroke of genius?

There seems to be a lot of negativity to this decision. Could somebody who was in agreeance with new proposal pls explain why and similarly, could somebody tell why it never worked before, instead of comments in general.
Like many others, I am not aware of reasons for changing many years ago.

Problems with start in February and finals in December(in no particular order)

Clubs must conduct trials in November some 3 months before the start of the season. The longer the time between trials and the season, the greater the drop-out rate so the less reliable the nominations leading to even more programming carnage at the start of the season. To solve this, clubs may trial in December (good luck, everyone is in party season) or January (everyone is on holidays). Under the current system trials are generally held in August and September leaving a 5-6 week gap.

Assuming trials occur and go smoothly (!!), clubs must attempt to contact players to attend trainings etc in January when most people are away. Volunteers do this in most clubs and they will be away as well. Under the current system team selections occur on the last week-end of third school holidays when very few people are away.

Assuming players can be contacted, they must front up in mid-January for trainings to select teams. Again most people are away. With the current system, teams are already selected and players have maybe 1 training before their first game and they have a program for this game in October. BASA may delay the start of the season by 2 weeks to overcome these problems. If they do this they lose 2 weeks revenue! With the current financial situation this will not happen.

How are teams graded for State Champs? Currently it occurs after summer season in February. With State Champs in March, the State Champs will be 6-7 weeks into the basketball year. Are we going to grade on the results of 4 games? As you can see, a nightmare!

End of year finals clash with:

Exams. Enough said.

National Schools Championships. Teams from Under 14, 16 and 18 all divisions will be greatly affected during this time.

SASI Tour. Now normally only Under 20 games are called off. Now Under 18 finals will be affected. Remember these are the best kids and their teams will be in finals. When will we play the premier junior competition finals, on Christmas Day? Hang on all the stadiums are normally closed anyway getting floors re-surfaced. Hmmmm.

SOLVING THESE ISSUES WERE THE REASONS IT WAS CHANGED 15 YEARS AGO. Remember that not all of the above problems were around 15 years ago, so it makes even more sense now to have the timing as it is now and even less sense to change it back.

If anyone can post more benefits of the change than the negatives I have raised then I will gladly embrace the "new old" system.

I have run off all the negatives I can think of but there are some benefits of the change. I will post them in the interests of a fair and balanced debate.

BASA do not have to explain why little Johnny who is 8 turning 9 in December must play Under 12's. The calendar year = the basketball year is easier to understand for people new to basketball.

All players are 3 months older and get 3 months extra juniors over their careers. Playing standards should therefore increase slightly.

Maybe State Champs can now be played over the October long week-end. This would be a good time of the year to do it, except it may be in the middle of October school holidays.

I'm struggling now. I don't think the benefits outweigh the problems. I hope that they do as I think we are stuck with it, at least for another 15 years until we forgot why we changed it back.

PS Isaac, thanks for the basketball!

Can people at clubs who voted for this change ask their delegates why they did so, and let us know?

Do people even know who their delegates are?

The State Champs are set down for May in 2006, not March. The October weekend is not viable because of State U16 and U18.
Many of the above posts are jumping the gun as the season start and finishes have not been decided. The only vote taken last night was for seasons to be completed in a calendar year.

The problem to me is still the age factor. For the life of me I cannot see why it is so hard to fix this problem.

For example: Little johnny turns 9 in December. He should be eligble to play U/10 for the whole of summer season(2005/06) and the whole of the winter season (2006), since the winter season is well and truly over by October as it is he is still 9 yrs old. He should not be force to play U/12 as it stands now.

After the winter season (2006) he then would turn 10 in December and will have to go up to U/12.

Since the seasons are split in two Summer and Winter this should work.

Most other sports go from U8, U9, U10, U11, U12 etc. Basketball goes in 2 years cycles U10, U12, U14 etc.

This is why we are losing kids to other sports.

exec,

"The State Champs are set down for May in 2006, not March. The October weekend is not viable because of State U16 and U18."

Under 16 and 18 Nationals are in July not October.

You have posted as exec. Are you in fact on the BASA Junior Executive? If so, how can you not know this?

"Many of the above posts are jumping the gun as the season start and finishes have not been decided. The only vote taken last night was for seasons to be completed in calendar year."

All of the problems above have to do with the either the start or the end. You say the vote was for seasons to be completed in calendar years. Well the only possible start could be in February and end to be in December unless you want to shorten the basketball year. I have no problem with that as I think it is too long, but how will you raise the revenue lost, increase ticket prices?

Mr Beam,

By your method, the cut off age is now not December 31 but September 30. This would be even more disastrous than last night's vote. The cut of age nationally and internationally is Dec 31. Changing that would put us out of step with everybody (IE THE REST OF THE WORLD!). The teams that play locally could not attend interstate tournaments, national champs etc.

Mr. Beam,

The issue of new parents not understanding the age groupings is relatively insignifcant, compared to all the new problems created by the new structure (as described by anonymous #43436). Clubs solve this easily by listing eligible years-of-birth for each age group.

Your proposals to change the cut-off date to be 12 months later, and/or introduce odd age age groups, would bring South Australia out of line with the rest of Australia, and most of the rest of the world.

Honestly, this is the least of our concerns.

Fair comments, but basketball is out of step with all other sports available to the kids today.

Exec,

re State Champs - if they are down for May in 2006, and we have no long weekend in May in 2006 as I have been led to believe (??), how will they be conducted?? And how will pools be graded?
Then again, as you suggest U16 and U18 State is in October I'm not sure I'd believe what you say anyway....

It was a HORRIBLE decision. The post by Anonymous is spot on. The having finals when exams are on (or Schools Nationals) is just unbelievable.

Anon (#43452),

"Given the age cut off is such a global dilemna and holding back basketball participation rates,"

It's not, what are you talking about! An age cut off is arbitrary, Changing it forward or back, by a day, a week or by 6 months has no effect. It advantages the same number of people as it disadvantages.

"could BASA change this rule globally and then sell their services to implement such a change, thereby overcoming some financial difficulties."

BASA are the controlling body of basketball in SA. It does not control the game all over the world (Thank God!). You want BASA to lobby FIBA to change the age cut-off? Can I please have some of what you are medicating yourself with?

Mr.Beam.

"...but basketball is out of step with all other sports available to the kids today."

Can you enlighten us? I assume you are talking still about the age cut-off. If you are then I think you will find that virtually all international sports have the same cut-off date.

Now I know AFL is different (I think it is at the start of the year) and both football and netball may have some September 30 thing going at local level.

But remember that basketball is a major international sport (2nd to soccer in popularity and played by more people than any other sport!). I don't think our age cut-off is out of step at all.

Anonymous #43449

Sorry , posted quickly from work. Of course I know the 16s & 18s are in July, it is the 14s in October which are the problem there.

Clueless
I can assure you that the State Champs will be held over 2 weekends in May. The format is yet to be decided.

So when is this going to start. What does it mean for the players who are meant to go up in summer season. do they get to stay down in say U18's instead of going into U'20.

So when is this going to start. What does it mean for the players who are meant to go up in summer season. do they get to stay down in say U18's instead of going into U'20.

Yeah, like number 50, I am a bit confused. Is the cut off date changing from December 31 to September 30.

can some please explain

good move by BASA to go back to the 80;s system. As I understood it the reason we changed it years ago was to fall in line with the victorian system.

cat no go,

Given all the arguments above, why is it a good move to go back to the 80s system?

So I can wear some flares again. Come On bring on the 80s

Can the above posters explain why the current system is "a mess."

Above is a many articulate post listing why the current system is perferable but not one person has actually displayed why we should move back to the "80s system".

Here is a summary and a score card of PROS and CONS outlined so far concerning the impact of the vote taken on Tuesday.

1 = little impact
2 = some impact
3 = reasonable impact
4 = major impact
5 = catastrophic

PROS

Calendar year is easier to explain to non-basketball people (2).

No other argument for has been put forward. Can someone who either hatched the idea or voted for it add to this list?

CONS

Trials and initial trainings for the clubs harder to conduct, more team withdrawals and thus more programming confusion (3).

State Champs gradings and State teams selections occur over less than a complete round of games (1).

End Of Year finals clash with exams, NSBT and SASI tour (4).

No cash flow from subscriptions for 10 months (as opposed to 7 now) (2).

SCORE: PRO 2 CON 10.

I ask supporters of the motion to either tell the basketball public the reasons for the change OR rectify your mistake at the next meeting by reverting to the current system.

As a partial observer to the above I can not recall a more unbalanced debate.

A couple of issues to consider with the current system that

The current system has teams having an extended break over the Jan school holidays then come back and play 2 games plus finals then break again. For those teams not in finals it is a seven week break - play two games and then have a three week break. Hardly ideal as there is no continuity.

Why do we grade for State Championships on performance achieved three months before the event. As we all know teams can change dramatically between Summer and Winter and therefore the pools at States are not a true reflection.

A team that performed poorly in Summer but improves out of sight leading up to the States will be in the harder side of the draw regardless.

I see the continual reference to exams. Well most kids playing 16's and under are not affected by this.

To many parents and kids the extra 4-5 months playing in the lower age group is beneficial and may keep more kids at that age group in the game.

Probally a brave man listing on this site but there are flaws with the current system and maybe just maybe the decision to look at the way things are done may down the track improve things for all.

I'll put my flak jacket on now!

Bart,

You are the first to put forward reasons FOR the motion and that has to be commended.

Let's add your points to the list:

Continuity in the grading season (1).

State Champs seeding is done on more up-to-date results (2).

Your point on exams however does not diminish the fact that the timing has a major impact on our flagship competitions (Under 18's) as well as SASI tour. NSBT affects many players from many clubs, ages and not just Division 1.

So it's now PRO 5 CON 10.

Bart, your a very naughty boy.

/ The coaching directors had given a proposal which they all endoursed to BASA which changed the current format into a 9 round grading season. This means that after the break all teams would play 1 game (no bye's allowed) and then there would be 1 weekend of finals. So the worst scenario is missing 1 week of games. The person in charge of this neglected to give this out to the clubs. IMOP this was done deliberatley to push through the season in a calander year.

2/ We grade for state championships at the end of the first seasons 9 rounds so that each team has an equal chance of achieveing a fair position. If you do it any other time some teams will not have played and it would be unequal for all. Also considering that BASA was unable to provide programs for the State Championships, and the number of mess ups was the worst ever, it is important to have the gradings and nominationsd early to give them a chance to get it right.

3/ Students in Year 10 have exams also. This is a majority of U/16 players. Thus you have about half of the Friday night div 1 competition effected.

4/ No matter when you have the seasons they will still be playing against the same kids. Just that it will be in term 1 rather than term 4. How exactly would this benefit antbody. By that thinking, why not start in term 2 not term 1 becasue players would benefit? Then why not play in therm 3 rather than term 2 that way some players would benefit?

So Bart go to your room. And no itchy and scratchy for 1 year.

Bart,

Far from it - it is good to hear from another view.
However, some points:

- State Champs. You cannot guarantee that a poorly performed summer team will be in the "harder" side of the pool. If the pools are 1,4, 5, 8, 9 and 2, 3, 6, 7, 10 which is the harder pool? If you perform poorly, you could come say 6th or 7th. Thus you could still be in either pool.

- the break. Irrelevant. You are going to have a break at some stage, when do you propose? Two weeks before State Champs if a grading round season begins in early Feb? That is hardly ideal either. Or after State Champs, in which case finals haven't been played and how again will you grade State champs?

- exams. As someone involved in 16s I can assure you this affects us. We have players missing trainings a lot during this period, and occassionally games too (rarer though). I can only imagine what it's like for the 18s and 20s. And even if "most" kids aren't affected, some still are. What do you propose to do for those kids? Play their finals later, when they are at Schools Nationals, or after that, when they are celebrating Christmas?

- the "extra 4-5 months" is rubbish. The season finishes now in late September including finals. That leaves October, November and half of December. Thats 2 1/2 months extra. MAY keep more kids? So you propose changing something with so many KNOWN negatives for something that MAY be a positive?

- you talk of poorly performed summer teams - do you think this might be due to players missing for exams, Schools Nationals, SASI tours, holidays, schoolies week etc.? If so, how is moving all these factors into either our finals or trialling times going to improve our standards?

- you still haven't given any decent "flaws" in the current system except for the extra time (late) in a lower age group.

And I hadn't even thought about the fact that our Victorian counterparts will have an extra 3 months to prepare for events like Classics, State teams and the like before reading above. Did the people who make these decisions consult with basketball-savvy people who would know these things? What was Neil Gliddon's view for example?

The reason Bart this debate is "unbalanced" is because the majority of people who have experienced both versions know how much harder it is for club volunteers, and apparently also how it impacts our performances at elite levels. The reason it is unbalanced is because a majority of us know that this is a TERRIBLE decision for SA basketball, and we would rather speak out than watch our sport go backwards!!

Exec,
re State Champs again. Good to see it will stay in May, at least that is not too early. My query is this though - if it is held over two "normal" weekends, that would mean that we would lose two "normal" rounds of basketball. I can imagine (fairly enough) BASA doesn't want to lose this revenue, so when would these two rounds be made up? Double-headers were widely unpopular and I believe were remvoed for that reason. Or is this another thing that is "yet to be decided"?

Well said Bart!

Couldn't agree with you more anon,

Better still, why not get rid of the junior executive. It is not the first time that these people have a decision which the Clubs have disagreed with. The fact the a member of the junior executive borke the deadlock to push through the proposal shows that they are out of touch with their role.

Instead organise a group of 4 people plus the State Coaching Director, the State Referee Director and a Colin THompson.

Each club can nominate a person and all the clubs vote for the best 4 people opn the understanding that they willbe accepting any recommendations clubs wish to put forward as well as producing their own.

If they make a decision it is then ratified by the Executive Board and then distributed to the clubs. If the enough of the club are that concerned about any of the proposals put forward then the only thing to do is to change the committee at the AGM.

This way all clubs would need to consider voting for who is best for the future of basketball rather than what is best for their club right now.

another anon,

Look at who makes up the junior executive? Most are alligned with clubs that are currently struggling and therefore if they are making important decisions for SA then it is no wonder SA is struggling.

They have put in valuable service over the years and should be commended for the efoort they have put in. However they are now holding basketball back, as Tuesday night has shown.

Rob Lindsay and David Durant fit the mould of what is needed to go forward in the future. Who else would you consider for this group?

This would put things back even further. The most important thing for basketball is unity amongst member clubs. At least now when a bad decision is made each member club has a member who had insight into the decision and input. The key with this committee is to be open and transparent. The major issue with the concept of having 4 people nominated by clubs is it only reduces openness and transparancy as these 4 would not have links to all clubs.

disagree, I disagree!

Things could not go back further than the current situation, it's physically impossible. It couldn't be more disunited than it is now. If a club doesn't like a decision they get it overturned at President's.

You want open and transparent. That's what minutes of meetings are for. Easy, publish the minutes the day after the meeting and everybody in the State knows what's going on. As it stands now if it wasn't for HoopsSA then Tuesday night's debacle would not be public knowledge.

disgree,

The current decision has been made without any openess or transperancy. The BASA junior executive has asked clubs to vote on a proposal that has not even been shown to any clubs and may or may not have been produced.

Then members of the BASA admin staff have gone back to their club's committee's and pushed for their club to vote in favour of the party line.

The fact that the junior executive have a minimum of 5 votes out of 15 shows that they need only yo have 3 votes from the member clubs to pass anything that they want. The fact that a majority of members of the executive come from 'weaker' clubs makes it possible for them to influence and push through decisions which will infact decrease the competitivness and performance of the association due to their alliances with 'weaker' member clubs is the biggest and scariest problem facing our association. What occured on Tuesday show's exactly this.

If clubs had to vote for somebody to improve the level of basketball in this state they would need to think long and hard about hat 4 people they would consider to be on this group. Because they would be giving control to these people. Currently, mum's and dad's sit on the junior committee because if it does something a dumb as what has happened, the Presidents get together and knock it on the head.

I have come up from my bunker.

Everyone seems to assume that the 10 club members sitting on the Junior Committee voted on what they liked with no consultation with their Club. The vote was 5 all without the vote from the executive. Therefore I think it fair to assume that their are Clubs that genuinely believe this was a good thing for SA Basketball.

Rightly or wrongly.

There is nothing wrong with Representative Clubs having the right to vote on any issue that affects Basketball in SA. Its called a democracy.

At the end of the day if the Clubs feel strongly enough about the vote Tuesday night it can be overturned at the Executive meeting by a Presidents vote.

Only then will you know if delegates voted against their Clubs wishes. If this has occurred then the Club needs to deal with their delegate internally

Bart, I thought I told you to go to your room.

A democracy would have each and every member of the Bsaketball association with a vote. that mena that each of the 500 est. members of Sturt and Forestville would have the same voting right as the 200 est. members of the smaller clubs. That is a Democracy. What we have is an equal representation from member clubs. But I for one would love to see a true democracy in basketball.

Plus, in fact 1 clubs delegate had not seen any of the information as it was their first meeting due to their delegate resigning recently.
Another club arranged a proxy to attend the meeting because there junior committee member was unavailable. This person also was unsure. Plus as has alrady been said. One club had it's committee influenced by a BASA emplyee to vote and the deciding vote was not from a member club.

I am willing to give 100 - 1 odd's on that the Presidents will knock this on the head. Or when BASA gives out it's proposed structure, all clubs will vote against it.

BUT, what this does highlight is the ineffectivness and disreguard for basketball the junior committee has and how out of touch with the game it is. That is why it needs to be changed with people who know what is going on in a position which can help basketball in this state.

Now back to your room Bart.

PS I actually hope you respond Bart because debate is healthy.

Democracy = 1 vote per person. From what I am reading above, the problem is that each club does not get an equal vote as those with members on the executive effectivelly get two votes.

South have effectively 3/15 at the moment. How have South gone lately in juniors?

Let's not drag this into a South-bash......

Anyways, from what is said South actually agreed with their inner Southern neighbours Sturt AND Forestville - that must be a first those 3 all agreeing on something!!

I think the point was that one struggling club has effectively double the power of its two near neighbours who are both leading the way in this State.

Forestville and Sturt agree on many things. They generally do things the right way and that's why they are both doing well at the moment.

I think that anonomous was actually attacking the way in which the process works and rather than this decision. That effectively, even though it may not happen, Some clubs have a greater ability to effect the direction of the association than others. And considering that the junior executive nominate the replacements for the committe it 'could be' viewed by some as having an us and them mentality considering a member from another club was not considered as the junior executive thouught that they were to 'elite' to be a member of the junior executive.

At least that is how I understand it. By looking at all the posts.

Anonymous #43639,

I think you have become defensive for no reason.

#43621 says "I think the point was that one struggling club has effectively double the power of its two near neighbours who are both leading the way in this State."

You said, "I am very disappointed that is now down to how South juniors perform being the reason that this decision was made like so."

I can't see how the first statement leads to the second. Its a comment on the Committee's power structure and does not mention Tuesday's decision at all.

Exactly who votes for the positions? If the executive vote for themselves (as has been suggested above) then isn't this a waste of time? Also aren't there 5 members of the executive? Only 4 positions are listed.

i would question this

how many of those posting on here have ever put their hand up and actually joined their club's management or junior committee's.

how many have any notion of how these decisions come about unless
you have been there.

many clubs struggle to get a quorum for the AGM's and people do try to do the right thing by their club and basketball in general.

remember we all don't hold the same point of view, from food, whether we prefer tea or coffee, white chocolate or dark. the list would be endless of difference. and differing opinions are a good thing.

less of the armchair critics if you feel so strongly about it STOP posting on here and go to your club get them to hold an extra ordinary meeting.

but bitching about on here is like spinning your wheels in the sand.

but like most apathy will take over, you've made your little strident remarks.

Not many of you, (albiet some will have) have ever served a moment in the committee area of your club and your assoc. you allow others to make decisions then bitch about the result.

be PROACTIVE not REACTIVE.

folds pulpit and goes back to cooking dinner

Pardon my ignorance, but why do we need to grade teams for the State Champs anyway. Surely, providing there are two divisions the best two teams will win through to the final due to the cross-over.

But I do agree that Finals at the end of the year would severely disrupt exams (or vice versa).

Homer

I'm back.

Inetersting view on what is a democracy. All Clubs have members and not the same at each Club.

They all hold an AGM and vote their committee on whoo inturn elect someone to sit on the Junior Commitee meeting.

As per the BASA constitution each Club has a vote which they all exercised on Tues night.

If some delegates were not prepared than that is a reflection on each Club not the system the vote was taken under. If the vote had of been 10 - 0 in favour of leaving as is there ould be no cries to change the system.

I have to go back to my room as Lost is on and will continue this thread later.

Cheers

Anon (43704)

All Clubs look after their own agenda and can tell you they only want whats good for the sport.

Some vote for what they believe and are content with their decision.

Others vote and when things don't go there way jump onto the nearest forum and tell the world how injust it all is.

Simply put changing the seasons will impact some clubs more than others.

div 4 and 5 should not be played at association level i kno of a guy who started in div 5 but within a season or 2 made his way up into div 1

That's your opinion not a fact.

div 4 and 5 are the starting blocks of a players future

What the...

A flaw with the current system.

Grading for the most important Championship weekend we have 3 months before it is run.

We grade 1,4,5,8,10 and 2,3,6,7,9.

What if you finished 2nd in Summer however 1 week before the States you are 1st and the teams that finished 6,7 and 9 in summer have improved that much they are sitting 2,3 and 4.

You have the best 4 sides on current form in the one half of the draw and two will not have a chance to go to the Classics etc yet the weaker sides will be playing off for a chance.

What if..... under the new structure the winter season started early February as we currently come back and all sides could have played each other once before the States.

This is when the grading is done. Sounds fair!

i guess its my opinion ive only seen one player go from div 5 to 1 in a few season when i tihnk about div 4 and 5 should only be association level not district

Sorry number 50 that comment was for anonymous 43714

i like that idea of the JCDs being the delegates.

oops....sorry

ever heard of luke schensher ?

he was playing div 5 and didnt make a div 1 team till under 18's i believe.

Bart,

Now you want you winter/main season played BEFORE your summer season??

This only gets better...

re State Champs.
Grading - so which teams this year in State Champs missed out due to this pools irregularity? Must have been happening a majority of the time to change the whole basketball year because of it. Which teams missed the Classics that deserved to go? I can't think of any.

And then, when they do get to Classics they are going to get wiped anyway as the Vic teams there has been together for 3 months longer.

Your reason for changing everything again is based on an "if" - "what if" the form of teams changes - as opposed to KNOWN negatives of the calender year. We KNOW players miss time due to exams.

sitonthefence,

I think there are many people in basketball who would put their time in if asked.

I would be prepared to put my hand up for an Executive spot and not sit on the sidelines as you suggested.

How do I apply? How does my application get processed? Who votes on it? Is it a closed shop as has been suggested above? Answer these questions and I will do it.

And I thought Pero making the national team was bad! This ridiculous decision beats that by a mile.

they have the runs on the board...

Bart,

Stop anoying Lisa while she is trying to study for her exams. Especially by making her play finals basketball during December.

Also, Considering we have the School Holidays's and Easter in April we do not have enough time before the end of round 9 to get out the State Champs draw.

Some years the round 9 may end up being the last week of April. This mean that BASA will have exactly 1 week to make and release the draw for the State Championships. After the debacle that occured this year with 2 week to make the draw it would only be worse. The only way to sove this is to start our competition 2 weeks earlier. Anybody here want to play in mid January?

Cool! A conspiracy theory!

Actually, I hadn't even considered the detrimental affect that this decision would have on country players who play in the Adelaide comp. It's difficult to tell what this effect will be until we know when the seasons will be run, but I suspect at a minimum, it will mean that bottom age players playing at Albury will do so before they've had any experience playing in that age group in the Adelaide comp.

It might also prevent any Adelaide teams participating in country carnivals in October/November/December (Port Pirie, Millicent, Mt. Gambier, etc.) because our kids will still be playing in the previous age group.

To Anon #43774

I think your comments are a bit off the mark and smell of sour grapes. I have been involved with both of these clubs (Committee/Coach/Parent)for several years. I can assure you that if they were getting their own way things would have changed along time ago!!

I am not defending all their actions and methods but rest assured they operate with an overaching goal to promote and grow basketball generally in SA as that is they only way they can reach their maximum potential as a club.

If winning was everything why wouldn't they happily run their second best teams in lower divisions and clean up every week?

Anonymous #43774,

No-one is spitting the dummy as you say. If you read the posts above, you will find that the opponents of this vote make articulate arguments about:

The problems associated with the proposal that was voted in;

The way the proposal was handled by BASA, not publicised widely before the vote was taken and the irregular voting process;

The actual structure of the junior committee and its executive and the imbalance of power.

From the above posts the only dummy spit are coming from people trying to defend the decision.

Have you also supernatural powers which allow you to know the club affiliations of posters for the negative? Why do assume they are all Sturt and Forestville? 5 clubs voted against it. I think you will find that there are people from many clubs who disagree strongly and are expressing their views because they know how badly it will impact SA basketball.

All clubs have Country players, you intended this either as a red-herring or a diversion from an argument you are clearly losing.

You also say that these clubs think they run the local competition. With the current imbalance of power on the junior committee, how could these clubs think that? If they did this decision would never have happened.

Homer/Anon/Clueless

Lets clear up one issue at a time.

If the winter season was brought forward to start the same time we began after scholl holidays this year (4th Feb) we have 13 weeks before the states begin.

Enough time to play everyone once and grade off the first round.

Now remember I have not declared my passion for the change just providing debate.

Lisa calls.

Actually,

There are 9 weekend's before easter that are avialable for the Firday night comp, but only 8 for the Saturday, due to country carnivals this year. The 15th is Easter and the 22nd is the middle week of School holidays. Therefore no games.

The next round is the 29th which is the week before State Champs which is on the first weekend of State Champs. So for the reserves comp there is not the ability to have 9 rounds without the 29th due to country carnival. Fact. But if we have just 1 cancellation due to heat on a Friday night we are stuffed.

In years where Easter is in March like this year, we would have, less games in before the Easter break, thuis not able to have 9 rounds until 2 weeks before State Champs.

Stop arguing with your father

Supporters of said motion were very yesterday saying that people should stop criticising and be prepared to put their hand up, but have not answered questions as to what the process is or how this can be done.

Given that someone said nominations for the Executive close today, can someone on the Junior Committee or Executive detail for the HoopsSA audience how to go about this.

I am sure there are many people who would put their hand up and help out if they knew how to go about it.

Anon #43803 said,

"From the information provided it appears that 5 clubs voted for and 5 clubs voted against the proposal. How then has an imbalance of power on the committee influenced this vote?"

No-one has said that. What has been debated is a wider problem of the structure of the Junior Committee.

If members of the executive who are alligned to a club are influenced by their club more than others to adopt a certain stance, then that club instantly has more power.

The South junior delegate has stated that the 2 Executive members are NOT influenced by their club and make their own decisions.

How would this go for an alternative for the Junior Committee.

1 from each club plus a BASA rep to make 11.

This group of 11 choose the executive positions from their own ranks. This would be less unwieldy and be closer to true democracy. This structure is a common governance structure.

To be a member of the Executive (whether junior or senior) you must not have any club affiliation what so ever, that is, you are not allowed to be on any existing club committees. All members might have had affiliation in the past and have had experince on either junior, senior or overall matters, and that is why they are voted on to the committees. Therefore Rob Lindsay is an ex NCT president (and board member), Greg Jones is an ex Woodville president, David Felton was involved with Norwood and so on.

These people are usually chosen as they have had many years of experience in either junior or senior basketball and are percieved by BASA administration/board as having the 'right stuff' to promote basketball in this state and make the right decisions so that basketball will flourish.

To get on to the executive of any committee, nominations are taken and the out going executive recommends to the overall committee who should be on the next executive, the overall committee then vote to either accept or decline the nominations. On just about every occassion the committee has accepted these recommendations. These are then recommend to the BASA AGM. The AGM invariably accepts these recommendations and the members attending the AGM vote in the affirmative.

The reason, in my opinion, that the committees accept the out going exec recommendations is that a number of members of the committees do not have enough experince and/or information on the nominees (as most are people that have been asked by the their club to be reps on these committees and are doing it 'cold' - hence the problem of members not knowing which way to vote - lack of knowledge - or deciding that they know better about basketball and do not vote their club's 'line')and are more than happy to go along with what the exec recommends.

That has been the procedure for yonks, and I beleive, is in the constitution.

Until the constitution is changed, we will continue to have these problems. When change of the constitution will occurr is any one's guess. To help junior basketball, clubs must appoint their junior coaching directors as reps on the junior committee. It is the only way that sense will come into running junior basketball in thsi state - oops another can of worms has been opened.

Damn!!!! so close in getting the spelling right - this, not thsi.

More questions?

Executive recommends a group of people.

Voted on by the 10 junior committee members.

Any others get voting rights (eg current Executive or BASA )?

Can an Executive member vote for him/herself at this stage?

Do they vote for individuals or the recommended group?

Can they vote for individuals who are not recommended?

The "elected" group then goes to the AGM where the process is repeated.

You mentioned BASA administration and the board. Do they get a vote at some stage?

It's still very confusing and seems very self-serving and not totally democratic.

Sorry about Fenton - another spelling mistake -damn.

Point of clarification - when I write committee I only mean either the junior or senior committee.

Nominations are accepted, discussed by executive and then the recommnded candidates are presented to the general committee - experience from years on Senior Committee, there was always the right number to fill the vacancies, therefore not to sure what would happen if there were more candidates than positions, although I do remember one year the chairman speaking out against the existing secretary (once he had left the room) and we were advised not to accept his nomination (which we didn't). Possibly the outgoing executive decides who shall be accepted, I'm not sure about that.

Only the existing members of the committee vote to accept the nominations, no one else, although it is possible that if one of the nominated candidates is not acceptable to the board, they might be replaced between the original meeting (acceptance) and the AGM - excuse is that there wasn't time to get the committee together to revote - bending the rules (but once it is 'fait acomplie' who's going to do anything about it).

But I am fairly positive that the nominated candidates are discussed by the out going executive/board/administration on their capabilities to serve (and whether they tow the 'party line')well before they are recommended to the committee

Once the nominations have been recommended to BASA AGM, it is voted upon during the AGM and that is it.

The only people who get to vote for a new incoming executive are the members of that said general committee.

Hope this has cleared it up for you, if not, ask away.

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog, if you ask me.

So why are their club's juniors struggling?

Can someone please clear something up what is the cut off date eg 31/12/05 for age groups? Are we now grouped as 10 and Under, 12 and Under, etc? Meaning if you turn 14 in 2006 you can play 14 and Under or are you a first year Under 16? When are the clubs letting their members know what is happening or are the club's committees going to continue to keep it to themselves.

Official source, rumour has it that a couple of clubs are not going to play in the coming season(believed to be short fininshng at end of year) if the format is not to their liking. Unfortuneately this forum is often the only place you get any idea what is going on. Realizing that it is often hearsay. But at times there is an element of truth. No fire with out smoke.

My guess is the two Clubs threatening to pull their sides out are Sturt and Forestville.

Did not get their way so this is their solution!

'what the' and anonymous #44228,

For the record, Forestville will not be "pulling sides out". We have never even considered or discussed doing this.

For anyone to suggest so (or propagate this rumour) is not helpful.

Ditto for Sturt. And we have not tried to bully anybody. Is a genuine debate about a proposal that will set SA basketball back years bullying now?

so what came out of last night's meeting?

Theres an old saying that rings true.
"You get the government you deserve."
In this case you have BASA.
You vote in your clubs elections, you choose your committee members, they choose their sub committees, they choose their delegates.
If they opt not to go to meetings or vote in a way that offends you, that is your fault. You gave them the power.
You need to be careful when you vote for your committee, dont just vote for the person that was the greatest player or has the loudest voice, look to their motives. Are they truly interested in the game/club/association, or are they only little wally's who couldn't get a job as the boss so they try to exert authority elsewhere.
If you didn't go to your clubs AGM, then you dont even have the right to complain, let alone expect someone to act on your behalf! The club where I am involved has to count the members present to make sure theres enough for a legal meeting.
The decision is made, live with it!