i agree with your assessment about the bias, but we can't fire someone for simply finishing fourth. I'd say the coach who is selected shouldn't have a rep club.

How do you assess a coach who doesn't select his own team???

and surely the state coaching director has some input into the teams.

I only watched finals and they looked good.
Semi against NSW country was winnable but got smashed on O board rebounds and start of third period.Not to sure about guards were the problem when one of them was in the best 3 on crt in that game and yes against North Q pretty lackluster.

They beat NSW M who ended up making the Grandfinal so they weren't that bad. NSW M were not that good either however they managed to do quite well. Maybe they should have scoured the NSW M v QLD North game to get an idea on how to beat them

They beat NSW M who ended up making the Grandfinal so they weren't that bad. NSW M were not that good either however they managed to do quite well. Maybe they should have scoured the NSW M v QLD North game to get an idea on how to beat them

No heads need to roll, that is just silly. VM probably ended up close to where their talent and ability should have got them to. A chance for a medal and on the day just not quite good enough, that seems about right. VC on the other hand probably under achieved, that group ended up 7th and lost to WA, should have done better than where they ended up!

Interesting to see no complaints last 2 years when the same coach has been in charge of the team that has won the tournament. It sounds like a disgruntled parent or coach from another club trying to drum up interest.

The coach is involved with Melbourne Tigers but hasn't coached a team there for the last 3 years at that was champ men, not juniors. This age group since U12s has always been Melbourne Vs Dandenong competing for the championship in VC so it only makes sense that most of the talent is actually at those clubs.

2 years prior in this age group it was a NSW Metro Vs NSW Country final and same again in U18s. The Vic Metro team at the U16 level was smashed 2 years ago and this group did a much better job.

If you were in Ballarat during the week you would have seen probably the strongest QLD North ever with Harry Froiling and WMD dominating and probably should have won it if not for the NSW Metro team mixing up their defence in the semi-final. Additionally, the NSW Country team have 2 CoE players and 4 players who are in Australian squads and are deserving winners.

I shouldn't be replying to trolls, but the fact is the people who have the attitude of VIC Metro wins or heads roll is belittling the rest of Australia who can develop great teams and players and not giving those state's acknowledgement of success. Given how Metro finished with the team that the had only losing 2 games I don't know why you would be mad at the coach (note: worth checking the stats on Turnovers and shooting % in the last 2 games).

The strength of players varies from year to year, not much the coach can do about that. However I believe, in WA anyway, that the coaches routinely favour players from their own clubs who they would like to highlight at the nationals. I didn't realise other states did it as well. Just looking down the lists it would be obvious that there was an inordinate number of players from one club, check the coach's affiliation and sure enough...

Hahaha, get over yourselves. Vic hasn't won a single title in this age group (14s Hills, 16s NSW Country, 18s NSW Country). They were never the favourites going in and most predictions of their finishing positions would have been for Bronze.

As 766 says, the assumption that if Vic Metro didn't win it's because they did something wrong is extremely arrogant, and fails to credit the excellent work done by the NSW Country boys (in particular) in this age group.

Best player wins even at this level.

The arrogance of Vic Met...

Anon 766 sounds like part of the coaching staff justifying selection, maybe the coach himself.

I made the initial post am am not a parent or player just an observer sick of seeing state coaches using what should be a prestigious position to bolster ranks of clubs that they are involved with.

I know as fact that one player was poached by this coach a few years back with a promise of a state spot as the kid's father told me about it.

His selections are proof of this, two state teams loaded with Melbourne Tigers players. Good luck to him if he can get away with it. The heads that should realistically roll are the people who appoint state coaches with such obvious bias.

By the way most state coaches are genuine good guys who are tarred with the same brush unfortunately.

Just as unfortunate is the chance of any real change to the system is next to none due to the old boys club that administer basketball in Victoria.

The smart parents switch clubs when they learn who the new state coach will be.

Gelder, you may find that
is a VJBL rule brought in to STOP clubs like the Tigers poaching players

In the end coachs want to win and will pick the side they think they can win with.... If that means picking between two kids and you know one of them and have coached them before and you know exactly what your going to get from them then yes coachs will possibly take the kid they coach is it fair of biased I don't know but I'm sure coachs try and pick the best side possible

You can't just win games because you have future stars on the team in Dante and Simmons. For those who saw the game, Mirko Djeric shot the lights out, Nick Duncan was great inside and NSW Metro stayed in a zone the whole game clogging the paint. The game was won on a controversial foul call near the buzzer.

Question, If the coahc is to have no affiliation with clubs what is it they are doing during the year in between preparing for nationals? Are they not supposed to stay active with coaching a team to remain on top of their craft.

Teams win, Teams lose while some state team selections can sometimes seem interesting I hardly think the person coaching can be 100% unbiased. They need to coach somewhere or how do they get selected to the role.

Lets ban all the players in state teams from playing in the VJBL then as well (sarcasm)

Who would ever want to be a State coach? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Potted by everyone for every little move you make and heaven forbid should your team not exceed OTHER people's expectations.

^^ #829 Not a lot of decent U20 kids do, the better ones are playing in Youth or senior teams by that age. Or the elite I would assume are at the COE.

I saw the Grand Final where Vic had Dante and Simmons vs Duncan and Mirko. Mirko is an NBL player now and Duncan is having a great college career.

Both teams had a lot talent and despite Vic having 2 kids who would go onto be some of the bigger names on the planet NSW had some talent in their own right.

NSW team seemed to have fun playing together, respect for each other, super confident in themselves and I noticed they didn't seem to be constantly berated by their coach.

I was just in the crowd and this is what I saw, it's very subjective.

C'mon guys are you actually serious? Nick has been given the opportunity to coach Vic Metro U18's for 4 years straight. Who was the last coach that was given this opportunity. In that time he has guided the team to 2 Gold Medals, 1 Silver Medal and a 4th place. Making it to the Semi's every year should not be taken for granted, this is some feat.

The fact is the players available for this years team weren't good enough, you can't pick what you don't have access to. Nick will likely vacate the seat but not because BV don't have faith in him, rather he has exceeded expectations and now looking at the next step in his coaching career.

Below is a list of every Melbourne player named in the U18 VIC Metro Men's team during Nick's tenure, check for yourself but the majority of these players would have been selected by any coach.

2012 U18 VIC Metro Men's Team
Geremy McKay - Melbourne
Jack Purchase - Melbourne
Felix Von Hofe - Melbourne

Emergencies
None

2013 U18 VIC Metro Men's Team
Geremy McKay - Melbourne
Jock Perry - AIS/Melbourne
Dejan Vasiljevic - Melbourne
Thomas Wilson - Melbourne

Emergencies
Blake Allison - Melbourne
Matthew Owies - Melbourne

2014 U18 VIC Metro Men's Team
Jack Bines - Melbourne
Jakob Cornelissen - Melbourne
Matthew Owies - Melbourne
Jock Perry - Melbourne / CoE
Dejan Vasiljevic - Melbourne / CoE
Tom Wilson - Melbourne / CoE

Emergencies
Blake Allison - Melbourne
Andrew Panayiotou - Melbourne

2015 U18 VIC Metro Men's Team
Pat Bines - Melbourne
Mate Colina - Melbourne
Nick Dane - Melbourne
Andrew Panayiotou - Melbourne
Josh Tang - Melbourne

Emergencies
Bailey Griffiths - Melbourne

There have been some little documentaries released from Basketball Victoria (I think).

Is there 30 for 30 potential with that NSW Metro win?

What if I told you, that 2 top 5 nba draft picks lost to a bunch of kids from the western suburbs of Sydney?

For the Exum/Simmons talkers, I was at that tournament (and others), and if you took a snapshot at that point in time - NSWM had the best player (Duncan). Mirko had a brilliant final. Think Exum rolled his ankle in the semi vs....SA Metro? Not that that stopped him much - had a huge dunk in that game. But he was very raw at that stage and quite thin compared to the more physically mature NSWM guys. Oh, and he (and the other VICM perimeter guys) couldn't shoot very well - that's how NSWM won.

As for this years team, I thought they lacked the depth of talent of usual VICM teams - and without the guy who moved from Tas wouldn't have made the top 4.

I keep hearing things about this years NSW Metro Men's team being the underdogs in the tournament? Did they not finish 2nd two years ago at 16's? Did they really turn that many heads and who guided them?

Correct, a lot has to go right for a prelonged period of time. First you need decent players to select, then you need no injuries or poor form leading up to the Nationals. You need to get everyone working together and coaches who can fit their system to the talent they have, not force players who cannot do the job into an unrealistic system for them.

The best teams or winning medal teams have more of the things that work than those who don't. Talent alone may get you a medal, but probably not gold. You need more of those things to go your way for a gold.

I have seen many games at Nationals over a number of seasons and the teams that get it right do so in many areas, not just one or two. NSW coaching was excellent this year, so was SA and QLD was not too bad but they got jumped when it mattered and made some errors that were capitalised on by NSW. VIC coaching wasn't as good especially with CV whose players couldn't adapt to a poorly structured and inflexible system and the other states didn't have the talent to make an impact. Shame NZ wasn't there as this would have mad the results much more interesting.

I dont think some of you Victorians get it.

The entire of Basketball in SA is smaller than the Dandenong association.

SO essentially Dandenong will have more boys in their U18 competition from which to select a rep team than SA do to select a State team.

Then yo can also throw Knox, Eltham, Keilor, Kilsyth, Frankston and Nunawading into the mix and they would all be larger than basketball in SA.

How does a vic team even get close to losing to any SA team ever, no matter the circumstances???

Let me see:

1. One team just shoots it better on the day.
2. Injuries or illness.
3. Officials and foul counts.
4. Lethargy or poor team work.
5. Lack of effort.
6. Poor coaching mistakes, tech fouls.
7. Lack of preparation.
8. Inconsistency.
9. Only ten in a team, so maybe better 10 are from SA.
10. Better system of play.
11. Better understanding between players.
12. Better ballhandling skills.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.

You fill in the rest anon^

For every good kid SA produces Vic has 20.

For every great kid SA produces Vic has 20.

So unless the entire system of player identification and development is failing in all clubs in Victoria they should be able to send multiple teams to National Champs, and they should all medal.

Is everyone else from SA sick and tired of this perception of 'whoa me' and 'we are always the little cousin on the poor side of the stree' attitude from some SA posters?

SA did great at Nationals and is improving, they just didn't win it this year, so why point fingers and make such stupid comparions like anon 978!

You gonna also say we should never beat the Vics at footy to anon? ID10T

985 not 986

If we all had that attitude, Australia should never win an Olympic Gold medal, EVER!

986 - I think 978 is agreeing with you, not crying about it. I think they are suggesting that based on population, we do brilliantly every year to compete, and often beat, the larger populations of Vic and NSW. I think it as a compliment to our many fine coaches and great young basketballers that we can outwork/outcompete/outthink bigger pops with working with "what we have". Every year the SA teams looks quite small (see SAM women this year, and both mens teams nearly every year) comparitively, but we not only survive, but often thrive.

Vic Metro teams at the moment are unfortunately in a place where a lot of Basketball CoachesAdministrators (VJBL, NITP, State etc) children are coming into to the u16_u18 age group. Basketball People will always look after Basketball Peoples children regardless if more talented kids are available. The reality is Vic Metro teams don't have the best players available, it is no longer an elite team to be a part of. This is why so many talented players don’t bother trying out and prefer private development pathways. U18 finished 4th, U16 haven’t won the past two and don’t look like they will this year either. Everyone will just have to get used to it, Vic Metro is no longer the leader, NSW CountryMetro is the strongest development program in the country. Basketball Vic have dropped the ball.

'we do brilliantly every year to compete, and often beat, the larger populations of Vic and NSW'

Not sure about the accuracy of this statement.

'Every year the SA teams looks quite small (see SAM women this year, and both mens teams nearly every year) comparitively'

This statement^ is more accurate, however the SAM men this year had plenty of size, they just blew it with late turnovers in the finals!

Stop making excuses please.

Agree^ and size, or more importantly how a team uses its size was a bigger factor this year for the Vics. Metro had the shooters, but they couldn't pull them out of games when the bigs were covered in the medal game, same with country whose shooters just could find their mark all week. Previous years Vic metro and country had clutch shooters that could knock down perimeter shots almost at will to get the team out of trouble. Then they had dominant bigs inside but this year the bigs were skinny and hemmed in under the hoop too often or in some cases not as skilled in finishing. They tried to play them the same but it failed because these kids are not the same.

Who is making any excuses? The SAM boys team absolutely were in a position to win their QF, and should have. Where/what is the excuse?
You just seem like one of those sour people who are never happy no matter what. Must be heaps of fun talking hoops with you.

Anon^ read the other posts will you? Plenty of excuses about low population base, small players, this and that yadda yadda! Small idology sydrome.

A huge congratulations to NSW Country for taking out the Gold Medal, and to NSW Metro for Silver. Great job by the teams, the staff and everyone involved at BNSW who have played a role in this. Both teams performed very well and that should be the focus following a National Tournament!

Congratulations to QLD North for rounding out the medals also, and again to the staff and all involved that have helped this team and its players get to a point where they have earned a Bronze.

So Vic Metro didn't medal, the simple fact being that there were teams that were better than them. That doesn't mean heads should roll. Maybe, just maybe that was/is the ceiling for that group.

All this ridiculous rubbish above trying to discredit the coaching staff or BV is not only insulting to those that volunteer their time to coach this team, but is equally insulting to the 3 teams that paced above them. In effect you're saying they only won because Vic Metro was rubbish or picked incorrectly. How about we credit them for some hard work!

Whilst I'm at it, congratulations to all of the other state teams, players, staff and state bodies. You all represented your states with pride, passion and worked tirelessly in the lead up to and throughout the National Championships.

Hear Hear!

"The reality is Vic Metro teams don't have the best players available, it is no longer an elite team to be a part of."

Hahaha. After all the years of Vic egos that can barely fit through the stadium doors and the non stop "we could send 4 teams and win all the medals" Vic don't medal and we get this guff?

As the poster up there said, congrats to the teams that did medal and all involved with their programs. It's actually pretty sweet to see the Vics miss out for once but I'm sure they'll be lording it over everyone again as soon as they start to win :)

Quite disappointing to read a lot of this.

Life could be worse, we could be laid up in hospital or have a debilitating/terminal illness and a lot of you just bang on about petty jealousies. Just be thankful that these kids can play the game, are fit & healthy.

Someone said once - you get out of life what you put in. Exactly what are a lot of you putting in???? Seriously have a long hard look in the mirror! Shame on a lot of you.

It is what it is. NSW C & M & Qld in the Men's were better this year as a whole. Players and coaches from all states need to be congratulated for their efforts and the medal winners more so.

It's not all about winning.

The Nationals is the pinnacle for a lot of these players and that should be celebrated, not torn down.

NSW teams were very good. Enjoy the time in the sun, it can be fleeting and is definitely cyclical. Vic Met coach worked hard with standout teams and average teams, he lost two games !!!!

They were beaten by good teams who played very good. Credit to them. Coaches and people who are getting carried away, come chat when you have your name on the trophy consecutively as many times as those Victorians

Did the Vic Metro team run the "shuffle offence" yet again?

Yes anon^ of course they did, it is a good offense why wouldn't you?

^^^ 187 . Not sure many would agree with the 'average team' comment that lost in Perth 3 years ago?

Especially with Exum, Simmons, Purchase, Von Hofe, Luxford, Jackson, McKay, Petracca.

There's 7 Australian Representatives for a start, 1 Aus Camp attendee, One NBA player and One All American? Hardly what could be called an 'average team'?

But what would I know?

Shuffle Offense is of the worst offences you could implement. Doesn't develop players, is a patterned offence that is easily scouted and defended by a well coached and disciplined opposition.

It's an ancient offence from the 50's that has been outdated for some time and is only relevant in Oz due to the Melbourne Tigers influence. Barely know or run in either that USA college system or in Europe.

Derided by many elite coaches due to it's lack of fundamental skill development

It needs particular types of players to make it effective, hardly an offensive structure that any half decent coach would implement with the talent available to them from the Vic Metro ranks.

#422 - I have not seen a team yet be able to scout the shuffle offense. A well drilled shuffle will beat any defense.

My comment was a general one. Nothing to do with the 2015 U/18's Vic Metro team

I agree with #428's comment in relation to showcasing the best talent to see what players can actually do at Nationals. Seems to me too many coaches are afraid to lose and some kids suffer because of this, being disallowed to shoot or play outside of their little zone as dictated by the system implemented by self serving coaching.

It should be about the players, not the coaches or their elite programs that often just hinder development and make kids second guess themselves!

The shuffle was designed for a 35 second shot clock, it's not suited to a 24 second shot clock, it's boring to watch and it's boring to run (as a player). Coaches, stop trying to make the game all about you, it's not, let players play

It's funny how we drill our kids to within an inch of their lives and teach them to work in a system like robots while in the USA they are the opposite. Some coaches over there don't even look at players other than you are a forward or a guard, that's it so go and play. Here we pigeon them into a point or SG or post player who isn't allowed to shoot the ball outside the block. Generalisation I know, but there it is.

What a joke - Shuffle offense to blame.... How about they were beaten by better teams

Sorry but both NSW teams, particularly Country, were in a class above this year. It is disrespectful to those players to say that the only reason VICM failed to medal was because they ran the shuffle or because Abdicevic was at the helm. NSW Country (and to a lesser extent Metro) had better players than VIC in nearly every position - simple as that.

#521 You are correct but I am glad you said nearly every position.He would take their shooting guard any day. 23 points the most any player scored against NSW country for the week.
Glover way to good for metro's point guards and smashed Vic on rebounds, end of game.Nothing to do with shuffle.
They only lost by 13 to a better side so be happy.

Oberon 83,

I will go one better, if he is such a great coach and has produced such good players.

How many of those players are on playing NBL or above?