Was Just going to post this. What the hell is happening, we need to find a new model.

Accountancy types, can you explain what this realistically achieves? I understand that a business cannot trade if it anticipates being unable to pay debts, but in the case of a basketball club doesn't this just hurt the staff and players specifically? That's pretty rough.

One of the bad things about these situations is that it only encourages any in-demand players to jump ship, making life in any future season even harder for a battling club. Rival clubs would be getting word to Blanchfield, for example.

At this point, are there any at the heart of the NBL secretly thinking "OK, the dead wood is gone. Now we're free!"? If they wanted to bring the league back to a smaller core, the only other way other than waiting would be to discard licenses and take the six best applicants back, and I don't know that the rabble is that organised.

Whatever road they take, they need to do it with certainty, because it's looking like a shambles from many angles, and definitely not just in Wollongong and Townsville.

There was another part to their statement that says because the NBL can't guarantee the structure for next season (assuming that means number of teams?) then they can't go to sale, so it seems like the news from Wollongong has forced their hand.

I remember previously one club not forging ahead with season ticket renewals at the conclusion of last season due to uncertainty in the league. Put them seriously behind financially. Is there no communication from head office or no confidence in the league from the less powerful clubs?

Doesn't look great when a team is saying "the NBL is not able to provide clarity around the number of teams remaining in the competition or what the next season will look like" while the NBL is run (supposedly) by the teams now. Is it an excuse? A disconnect? A schism between factions of clubs? (I would guess a bit of all three.)

Taipans and (I thought) every other team had been selling memberships for next season. There's some clarity around somewhere....

But from the outside looking in it's murkier than a coal miners bath water....

I think you'll find voluntary administration is worse than it sounds. It's one way of staving off creditors and actually refocussing the business.

An administrator will look at things like cashflow and viability. The Crocs may have had a bad season, but hopefully they are not paying interest on interest. That's when things go bad

And the thing is, nobody aside from basketball fans really care or would even know this is happening. The mainstream media is just waiting for the NBL to come out with an announcement that it will be shutting its doors indefinitely - then it might get on the news!

Clubs going into voluntary administration is nothing new for the NBL and nobody sees it as a shock anymore. The real shock will be when the competition is shut down.

I hope Townsville pull through though and the league gets through this era.

Jack, so what significant and unpaid-at-season-end creditors are an NBL business likely to have?

If they reform for next season, most players will realistically have lost 3-4 months of salary once things start up again from July 1.


Podge, I imagine that a financial business is likely to be more confident through uncertainty. I wonder if Adelaide would be worried by this.

I feared this was going to happen. They are going to need a massive cash injection to not only be sustainable for the next season but pay the massive debt that they already have.

Doesn't look great when a team is saying "the NBL is not able to provide clarity around the number of teams remaining in the competition or what the next season will look like" while the NBL is run (supposedly) by the teams now. Is it an excuse? A disconnect? A schism between factions of clubs?

I think Nick Marvin may have to put his hand up to be CEO of the NBL. He's doing something right with the wildcats organisation, mind you Jack's money helps.

Isaac, in my experience the ATO is always a large creditor in these situations, very easy to put off paying BAS or super and it adds up fast

As for entering vol administration it can be used to safe guard the directors from personal liability for debts which can be triggered if they trade insolvently

Marvin was Chairman of the NBL board until a month or so ago, why would he do a better job at CEO?

Especially given the rumours that he scuttled Neil's grand plan for the league....

Townsville in their current setup are a joke off the court. There is no reason why they cant be sustainable, but they need a clean out, again.

Numerous disgruntled board members have leaked documents both financial and otherwise to the media that paint a pretty clear picture of how they run things, and it's more amateur than many state league teams.

I can't help but feel that the 'Gong and the Croc's decisions were based on the likelihood the Brisbane team was unlikely to get up.

Isaac, not many. Most front offices run on minimal staff and volunteers, court hire ceases, so really it's only the coach and his off season scouting expenses

Might just be uncertainty as to whether Wollongong will be able to make it through their issues.

Considering the Hawks announcement only came on the weekend, how can the league know what is realistic for next season? Like I said, I think the Hawks announcement forced their hand.

VA is about protecting whats remaining and ensuring the club doesnt trade insolvent ie. Not incur debts it cant pay. Its also used to prepare the business for sale or investment.

crocs move is to stall for time just like the hawks. Hawks getting some $'s back but its a tight race. Crocs in the same boat.

Any form of administration/ Receivership/ Liquidation is expensive. "Administration is the first step and least drastic of the three. The only difference with "voluntary" is that you get to choose the Administrator and presumably you have discussed fees first. Make no mistake, this IS a big deal. Insolvency professionals cannot allow themselves to be used to shield businesses, so these clubs are under administration literally meaning they have handed over control. Again the benefit of it being voluntary is that you can agree a scope, including conditions under which the administration will end.

Whilst it may be seen to give the organisation breathing space, the danger is that the administrator determines it is unviable and recommends liquidation. If that happens then the directors are stuck up shit creek. If they ignore such advice, and subsequently fold anyway, they will be in deep shit.

It's hard to know what is behind such moves. These smaller NBL clubs don't make money, they are reliant on benefactors tipping in cash. SO have they simply decided enough's enough? Or is it a ploy to generate sympathy and community action? Get the community lobbying government and venue, get sponsors promising money, etc. The problem with doing that AGAIN so soon, is that people may simply decide its a lost cause and walk away.

As for "not having clarity from the NBL," that's a crock and simply an attempt to shift blame. Even if they honestly had concerns about the league continuing, no VIABLE organisation would pre-emptively seek administration based on that. Besides, what's the worst that can happen? We lose upto 3 teams, the league cobbles something together and runs with a 6 team comp.

Wow a 6 team "world class completion". What a joke. The NBL board should immediately resign.

Marvin was Chairman of the NBL board until a month or so ago, why would he do a better job at CEO?

Especially given the rumours that he scuttled Neil's grand plan for the league....

Yes that would solve everything Harry. You throwing your hat into the ring? You seem to be the expert on everything.

This is not going well...

:(

Is the underlying cause of all these unrest a sign for change? Namely, the possibility of NBL management needing to ensure transparency and clear ideals on what the league's long-term future could look like, and how it could get there with measured plans and milestones in place.

NBL struggle intensifies: Townsville Crocodiles placed into voluntary administration

My mistake, the Hawks announcement was the previous weekend.

Sorry Uwe to disappoint you. I was howled down some time ago when I suggested this exact scenario may occur. I was also happy to be ridiculed because of it. This is a basketball forum that welcomes fans and thoughts last time I checked.
Unfortunately the rumblings have proved correct so far. I am far from happy to have suggested what has transpired but the mismanagement of the new NBL is far worse than BA ever was.
Equally unfortunate is the fact that the current Board is effectively people involved at NBL club level and they have overseen what should be their own demise.
You are a late arrival here and seem to know it all. You talk the talk and have little if anything to offer.
The current NBL have always had this (IMO)flawed vision of an NBL team in Brisbane. The focus has been there and when Neill told them the truth he walked. Down hill from there. Only 2 weeks ago they were back in with Larry involved with Jacks son. Last week gone. What a train wreck. It's a sad day to see this once great league reduced to a national laughing stock that no one other than basketball fans would even realise.

how can the league know what is realistic for next season?

So how's Nick doing now with a 6 team National Bush League National TV rights coverage?
After all it is a "world class competition" which we keep hearing. No wonder the NBL is rooted if they seriously believe their own PR.

Channel 31 anyone? Amateur TV channel...

Just saying...

Yea, i dont mind the idea of someone like Larry Kestelman runing/owning the league, on the assumption he funds all teams equally and keeps the whole league sustainable, which would be in his best interest to do so, as the current board set up doesnt seem to work, too many differing views, etc, this is where 1 owner/decision maker would help as it would go in 1 direction at the interest of the whole league, not people fighting in the interest of there club. Seems to not be 1 strong direction for the NBL shared by the whole board, which is a bad thing imo. The Vince McMahon WWE example is a good one, for better or for worse it has 1 direction and is fairly succesful.

Given the league as a whole doesnt make a profit, what harm would it do the other owners to give him this say, maybe he doesnt own 51% of each team he could buy 100% of say Townsville and Wollongong, fund a Brisbane team, buy a share of the 36ers, Kings, Taipans, he could fund a 2nd Melbourne team or atleast own a share of them, let Perth and New Zealand keep there ownership set up, but Larry gets first rights to buy a share if the owners ever want to sell. That way on top of his ownership of the Melbourne United he would own a fair chunk of the league anyway, possibly more than 51%, any reason why he couldnt buy up on all these clubs if he wanted to??

I always reckoned the owners should own the league not the clubs, it helps eliminate self interest by each club and helps make the right decision, not just the decision that suits the bigger/power clubs.

I reckon the league could be do alot worse at this point.

The owners are the clubs, Jonno. They already own their own future. You eliminate any problematic self-interest by having an independent board or having common ownership (dictator, essentially). In your Kestelman example, Perth and NZ wouldn't be keen to hand over influence like that.

Kestelman was supposedly offering $x00k (lower rather than higher). Could've just gone in as some sort of influential sponsor or backer. Must be a reason why he didn't. Maybe it was contingent on him getting all or most. Or maybe a foot was put down over rules against owning multiple clubs (which would be a bit odd given the Bendat-Brisbane talk).

In one of Boti's articles today, he talks about NBL staff referring even the most basic of media requests up the chain to the board. That sort of thing means they lack initiative or front-foot action. Boti also mentioned that a number of club ownerships first heard about Townsville's VA via social media. That's appalling. There should be a united front from all clubs.

Dazz, again, if Marvin is so great why is the league in the state it's in?

Truth is last season and the start of this season there was a air of positivity and things were on the up.

After Neill went.... well here we are.

The equation isn't that difficult to solve.

Yea very true,

Could Perth & NZ/power clubs stop someone just buying the other clubs, then he would essentially own around 80% of the league?? At worse they pull out and he just buys them too, i guess he may view it as too costly.

I doubt Townsville, Wollongong would cost much at all to buy at the moment, he could fund Brisbane and Melbourne 2, and offer to put some $$ into (buy a share of) clubs like the 36ers who are rumoured to be struggling a little $$$wise. How much would this cost??? surely you could buy the Crocs and Hawks for just about nothing given they have run at losses, would have very few assets, etc. He could almost just say give me the license for nothing and i guarantee the club will be in the league by funding them next year and it would be hard for the NBL to turn down id say. Would be interested to see if he has ever considered these things and why he didnt do it, maybe the clubs asked too much to sell to him?? Anyone know how much it would cost to buy a club thats not Perth or NZ right now?? surely it wouldnt be huge??

Would love to see the reasons why this was knocked back on both sides, because this direction sounded the best one to me.

Way better than as it sits now where even the existance of the NBL is in doubt at some level.

Its a bit concerning that the NBL have been so quiet about every thing lately. There's been no official word on the Beisbane bid failing and no assurance to the fans or clubs that they have anything in plan for the future of the league.

Do they have a plan if the league shrivels to 6 teams ?

Has there been any progress on the TV deal or live streaming service ?

I can't imagine that all this negative attention is doing anything to help attract major sponsors.

Jonno, yes, the price on the Wildcats would be way beyond anything worth paying given the risk with the league. The lowly clubs would be cheap, but you'd have to be committed plus have a very trustworthy lieutenant to run everything.

I'm still surprised that a media company hasn't bought a risk-free contra stake in the league somehow. Take ownership of some sort in exchange for showing every game live, having features in print, plus games on streaming services. There's potential in the league if the hardest part (media coverage) is solved and controlled for. You'd limit coverage from rival companies, but currently all coverage is limited so it's an upgrade on that. Could even make the league/clubs wear production costs so all you were giving up is air time on a secondary channel.

Think the NBL should just take a season off and actually sort this out and come back with a system that is gona last.

Not going to renew until there is a season worth watching and paying for it. Especially 7 team comp?

Sad times ahead for every one.

Can't see there being a season, be a long pre season.

Think the NBL should just take a season off

Dazz, the failings are symptomatic. This year it's Wollongong and Townsville. Soon it might be Adelaide for all we know. In the past, it's been Cairns, Sydney, Gold Coast and Brisbane. Plus issues with two Melbourne teams. Oh, and the other Melbourne teams before them.

cats isn't suggesting stomping on the eggs, but fixing things properly as the A-League once did.

When the league fails to get media respect, it's not because of the regional clubs (in fact, they get great coverage) but because of the head office and a very tarnished league brand.

Jack is right. VA is a proactive alternative to Liquidation.

It's a rehabilitative measure more than anything. The financial position of the company is generally frozen and the administrator sits down with the directors and its creditors and discusses changes and reform on the operation of the business.

With that being said, I don't hold much hope and would be fearful that the creditors will put the business into liquidation. If it is financially troubled at this stage of the year, I can't see how it will pay its debts come pre-season (when they have to start paying players without any gate takings and/or limited, if any, sponsorship stream).

I think most ppl believe the league should shut down and re-boot like soccer did, problem is the powerful owners calling the shots are either making money or have invested money and won't allow it, even if it's the best thing for the sport.

The issue is that if the league did shut down (even just for one year), there is no guarantee that the players, fans, investors, media would ever come back.

I agree there needs to be mass change as it is currently a poor product, but surely continuing something (albeit terribly) is going to be less-risky than taking a year off and building from scratch.

At least hold onto the fans, players and investors you already have?

More publicity on the Bullets being dead.
What an absolute pack of arseclowns these people are. They are sinking and keep appointing people that have no passion for the game, understanding of the game and no real interest in the game at all.
Supposed smart businessmen managing the NBL BOard that has seen their own near demise.

But good luck getting answers from interim NBL CEO Bret Mactavish, who on Tuesday stonewalled any attempt to extract explanation about why the country's third largest city will remain without a professional basketball franschise for an eighth straight year.

Mactavish told The Courier-Mail yesterday he "completely understands’’ that the Brisbane basketball community wanted answers on the city’s basketball future. Regardless, he refused to provide any.

“I don’t have any comment regarding the Brisbane Bullets at this time ... I can’t confirm anything,’’ Mactavish said. “I don’t have any information to provide you with definitive answers on your questions.

“If you are going to keep asking questions, we’re just going to have to end this call … this conversation needs to cease.’’





http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/basketball/bid-to-resurrect-the-brisbane-bullets-nbl-team-is-dead-and-brian-kerle-is-angry/story-fni2u9cl-1227257735664

I think it's a big gamble to bet that spectators, supporters, sponsors and the players will return. The 2 that contribute the dollars, spectators & sponsors, have not "returned" to Wollongong & Townsville which is why they are in trouble. People keep pointing to soccer's hiatus prior to the formation of the A-League but the reborn competition had a massive injection of cash to kick it off & effectively buy media coverage (& that cash still props up the competition today).

AFAIK the A League still is losing multi million$

The league does need to regroup and I think that a new model is needed with an independent commission.

However for the teams able to continue running, a shortened competition could still be viable to maintain / service existing fan bases. Possibly even tie in some invitational teams from NZ and Asia - make it more like an event over 2-3 months (or something like that).

While this is unsubstantiated, I had heard that IMG were going to buy the league and run it, with them to pay for a free to air tv deal with it. If that's the case then it could explain a lack of comment from the league and potentially help out both the Hawks and Crocs......

It's ironic that someone above said NBL = National Bush League, when the NBL seems determined to have a capital city-only model to the point where they tell teams like Wollongong and Townsville they have to support themselves but seem to doing a lot of work to get Brisbane into the league.

As others have pointed out other sporting codes actually support their teams. Perhaps the NBL has the view that as basketball was "invented" by USA, the heart and soul of capitalism and free enterprise, they have to live by those principles (when it suits them).

BUT basketball was brought to Australia by the Russians, East Europeans and church groups - the antithesis to Kapitalism. So perhaps, to be a thriving league, the NBL should actually do more to help the whole league and not have a narrow-minded focus on capital cities who have shown themselves to not be the economic powerhouses imagined by the NBL (Brisbane, Sydney, West Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra, Hobart anyone?). And hasn't Adelaide gone through its own issues over the years?.

I have heard mention that it is TV that has a large impact on the league and this is behind the capital city push. However, I remember in the '80s and '90s (you know, the old days) where local stations would broadcast games along with coverage by ABC. Seemingly, this lead to 'boom' days, ith the NBL getting bigger and bigger. THEN FOX steps in. In 1995, there were 14 teams in the NBL. In 1997 it went to 11 (Hobart, Geelong and Gold Coast dropping out). Obviously the Pay-TV deal had a wonderful effect on the league.

It is also ironic that one of the golden teams leading the golden era was Brisbane, moving from a crappy little venue to a state sports centre seating >10000 people. It seems that the NBL got all glittery and started demanding that teams move to glitzy big venues (along with glitzy big costs). Capital city teams usually had a host of venues to choose from, funded by their respective state governments. This government largesse does not seem to apply to regional areas meaning the choice of venues for regional teams was limited. The irony of all this? For those who didn't notice, it was Brisbane leading the charge. Brisbane who??

Despite the NBL having people in marketing, communications and media, I wonder what sort of a job they are doing. They struggle to get even the grand finals on ABC. ABC is our national broadcaster and is all over the WNBL, netball, soccer, golf, tennis, cricket as well as the other footie codes. Ratings aren't the prime force behind ABC. They even used to broadcast lawn bowls. Lawn Bowls?? So what has happened in the NBL that they can't even get decent airtime from the national broadcaster? I struggle to find articles in papers such as SMH and the Telegraph (I am a balanced reader, you see). I know that local papers (such as the Illawarra Mercury and, Boti in Adelaide) do a good job of covering basketball. But papers like SMH and the Tele are read widely throughout NSW. But there is net to no coverage of basketball in those papers. And people used to say that for basketball to do well, it had to do well in Sydney. Well, Sydney won the title 3 times running? What happened?

In summary (if you've bothered to read this far) the NBL is a sad little, narrow minded organisation who need to do more to protect its "product". They would do well to stop thinking of product and get back to basketball.

/rant

Melbourne Boy and MACDUB - on the money, sadly.

Boti is critical of the NBL's response to Townsville here:

"Similar to the move for the Wollongong Hawks, it is an opportunity for the local community and businesses to rally together and demonstrate their passion for their team."

Is he kidding here?

Wollongong required its community to rally, for sure. (And the word is that it has been.)

But Townsville had sponsors and its community lining up to go forward into 2015-16 already. What it required was to be able to tell them what they were going forward into, information the NBL could not - or would not - provide.

A few misconceptions above, by those in denial, that need addressing.

Yes, other national competitions have troubling issues. For NONE of them is the underlying business model in the lost.

Who cares if the AFL pays the bills of its clubs. It can afford to.

Who cares if a netball run a lean competition with low overheads to remain viable. So they should.

Who cares if everytime a rugby league player drinks he hits someone or snorts coke. The media coverage alone seems to help.

Who cares if 2 expansion clubs developed purely as 'stadium strategy' for a World Cup bid failed in the A-League years ago - because they have been replaced (with 2 more coming) and their TV deal more than doubled, while their worst performing club (financially) is about to break even? And don't kid yourself than Frank Lowy spen money on the game. He didn't, but he did work his contacts hard.

I won't talk about rugby union because, frankly, they are increasingly looking like basketball on a larger scale.

The NBL, unless to goes the way of netball or does a deal as baseball here has done with an A,erican sugar daddy is done as a national league. Basketball Australia were never the problem. Greed was and is.