I dont think Townsville will go. I have nothing to base that statement on.. I just dont think it will come to pass.

I can appreciate that there is history that would be lost in the course of it happening and fans would likely be lost permanently, but if the league can justify losing a team, I think it's Townsville. In a league of big market teams, the regionals like Townsville, Cairns and Wollongong might be under pressure to stay competitive.

We've had threads before about whether the Crocs and Taipans could merge and split their games but I guess the reality of that is a bit hard to understand for anyone outside the fanbases of those teams.

Losing Townsville would be so sad...they defied the odds to show that a regional team could firstly enter the league & then be successful off the court for such a long time.

Just by looking at the arena they play in you can tell they are as good as gone! For NBL to be sustainable you must go to big cites. Another team in Perth would be a great idea. Capital cities must be the plan. Tas and Brisbane must join the NBL and another New Zealand team!

Why does everyone think a second Perth team would be anything other than a horrendous failure? Who would bother going to games when you've got the Wildcats here already?

koberulz, yeah, you can get to eight strong teams without doubling outside of Melbourne and allowing the loss of another regional. If Cairns and Wollongong survived, getting to 10 isn't a stretch. Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne, Dragons, Brisbane, NZ, Cairns, Wollongong, Tasmania.

Make a local derby, Melbourne Victory vs Melbourne City is huge here. And A-league isn't a hugely popular sport yet. Its obvious the people of perth love there basketball having 2 teams that play at the same arena like the lakers and clippers would be pretty awesome. I honestly reckon it would be a great investment but it would take time and money.

"Make a local derby, Melbourne Victory vs Melbourne City is huge here. And A-league isn't a hugely popular sport yet. Its obvious the people of perth love there basketball having 2 teams that play at the same arena like the lakers and clippers would be pretty awesome. I honestly reckon it would be a great investment but it would take time and money."

+1

I actually think three Melbourne teams would work best if you had a decent TV deal. Melburnians love rivalry and it would help the NBL cut into the Melbourne media cycle.

Of course, two is a lot more realistic at this point!

It would be sad to see Townsville go, but they're just not kicking many goals at the moment and if they're struggling they're holding the league back. If they go, I'd like to see in 2016/17:

Adelaide
Brisbane
Cairns
Melbourne
New Zealand
Perth
South Dragons
Sydney
Tasmania
Wellington
Wollongong

So many fans these days seem to be fine with letting a team move on. Just thinking of the media these days I would guess that the event of losing a team would outweigh the leagues expansion. Just thinking of more 'basketcase' headlines and how the league has fallen from the glory days makes me shudder. It turns away casual fans and who knows, maybe even potential broadcasters.

If the league can partially fund the Brisbane team maybe they could send some kind of loan to Townsville?

Everything in the leagues power should be done to keep the Crocs in the league.

Melbourne have never been in the hunt for next season.

Agree with NBL Fan, Townsville don't need to be a powerhouse on and off the court. They just need to put together a respectable team and hold onto their current core and keep adding young talent like the Taipans did, and look at them now. There is some good Aussie talent coming through the college ranks, guys like Anthony Drmic, Mitch McCarron, Hugh Greenwood would be good additions to the Crocs

"Make a local derby, Melbourne Victory vs Melbourne City is huge here."
It works because people support both teams. Nobody would support the Perth Not-The-Wildcats.

"Its obvious the people of perth love there basketball"
Is it? How?

"having 2 teams that play at the same arena like the lakers and clippers would be pretty awesome."
There is less than zero chance a new Perth team would be playing at Perth Arena. They'd be at either HBF Stadium or the WA Basketball Centre.

(Seriously, does anyone know how to do that blockquote thing Isaac does? Why is there no markup guide anywhere?)

I really hope Townsville do not fold. As mentioned in an above post, they only need to be around and be playing. They don't have to be a super power, or even be popular (though it would help if they can garner some enthusiasm). They just need to be in the league, as one of the "smaller" clubs to give the league a more rounded national presence.

They have history, past success on and off the court, the sporting competition isn't fierce in Townsville and they still have a profile. It just needs some nurturing at the moment.

What Im most disappointed in with Townsville is not their RSL stadium or ticket prices (that doesn't really concern me). What bothers me is the lack of Crocs branding on their court. They could at the absolute very least have green keyways, so it at least looks like a Crocs home game, rather than a game played in any old rec centre. For such a small stadium, and with very few sponsors on board, the Crocs could have at least 'dressed' up their venue a little bit given that its already at the bottom end of NBL venues.

Hey dickhead anonymous I have never said there will be no NBL season next year. Please don't mis quote me. Right now the NBL is on the tipping point. Crocs close to folding, some would say that the Hawks are close to folding despite having a new rich owner.
Latest rumour is Cairns are on the edge too.
The NBL keep talking about expansion and all they have done is allow another team in with no credentials and those that are applying have done SFA.
The boss of the NBL has quit. Surely a numpty like you can figure that out. How's Adelaide going too? Lots of money spent there too and SFA delivered in terms of wins. I stand by what I say and as the resigning boss of the NBL said TV rights are a long way off.

Honestly though do you reckon its a good look for the NBL having a stadium that holds 3000 people? That stadium on NBL.tv looks terrible. No disrespect to any Townsville fan or players. But its quite embarrassing for a league to have a stadium like that!

So with 2200 people at the Gong recently and the black curtains up how does that sit with you in a venue that can hold 5,673 people?
Rest assured if it was official at 2200
there were far less there.

If its shared by the Townsville Fire, then wouldn't the costs for court branding be shared too? Why do the Crocs have to bear the full costs for this and not the Fire? Do the Fire own the stadium and the court? I get they have played there first, but that doesn't make it theirs to do whatever they like unless they actually own the place and are giving the Crocs free use of it.

And at the very least, isn't the NBL bigger than the WNBL? Not in Townsville by the looks of it.

Harry calling others a dickhead and numpty...oh the irony!

Harry, once again you are proving you post an awful lot but really have no idea.

Wildcat Fan - It's not about who played there first, it's about who had an existing lease agreement and what was in there, when the Crocs came along to negotiate theirs.

Presumably the Fire have a lease agreement that says their branding can stay there. Again, presumably, the owners are obliged to restore the Fire branding after any event in which it's removed or obscured. i.e., when the Crocs play, should Crocs' branding replace the Fire's. So, if I'm the owners, I'm not going to pay for that, I'm going to put into the Crocs' lease agreement that they have to pay for it.

Bwahahahaha another stupid comment about Cairns being in financial trouble again. FFS - The ONLY TEAM TO POST A OPERATING PROFIT 4 YEARS IN A ROW. Its public information as a publicly listed non-profit organisation.

Coming from someone who calls people dickhead on a forum its not that surprising.

There are forces in Townsville that want to take over and move it back to the TEC. With mining dropping off, da ville just isn't flush with cash anymore and locals are sick of high rates etc bailing out sports teams/stadiums they can't fill. Crocs being around maybe a forgone conclusion - but dont discount the license moving to Mackay/Rocky who have stronger QBL/sponsorhip supporter bases ie. NQ Cowboys major sponsors are out of Mackay/Rocky/Cairns not Townsville.

They were on their very last legs when they hired DJRod as assistant coach last season OMG the team surely will fold after this season.

(Seriously, does anyone know how to do that blockquote thing Isaac does? Why is there no markup guide anywhere?)

Strange I spoke to someone only the other day who has a close association with Cairns and that's what I was told. True I don't know, but I posted it for what it's worth.
I called someone a dickhead because they simply mis quoted me putting words into my mouth that I never said.
The Brisbane bid isn't funded by anyone other than at this stage the NBL. That right now is a fact.
Cowan was always happy to continue on despite their losses but refused to work under the NBL's flawed model and that was the reason they pulled out. Tassie are still expected to be allowed in.
Government assistance will determine whether that goes ahead or not.

Nothing wrong with having stadiums of 3k people.

There's a few stadiums in the French Pro A and German BBL that have 3-4k.

I have had the priviledge of going to a Ratiopharm (German BBL) game at their 3k capacity stadium.

It was full to the brink..the intensity, atmosphere and crowd involvement was unbelievable. It was wicked!

It would be a dream of mine for the NBL to have 3-4k boutique and beautiful stadiums and have them absolutely full to the brink with an electric atmosphere.

http://basketball.eurobasket.com/team/Germany/Ratiopharm_Ulm/127

The Ratiopharm stadium has an aesthetic design.

I agree MacDub. I also hope that Townsville stay in the league. Why do people (cough-cough Boti) continue to talk down the Australian basketball landscape for pure gossip and innuendo for their personal blogs. This behaviour is the cancer of Australian Basketball and Boti is the host cell. Any loss of a team in the NBL is catastrophic to the growth and promotion of the game nationally.

Boti on his personal site is more prone to speaking his mind. He's sharing rumours in this case, not suggesting it's ideal. He's said on Twitter he hopes the Crocs survive.

I said it before and will say it again.

Move Crocs to Brisbane (and rename them Bullets)

The Townsville community has proved this season that they dont give a rats if the club folds by voting with their ticket purchasing.

Any contracted player could opt out if they want but doubt many would.

The problem with the Crocs is that they're not filling up the RSL. It would be sad if they did fold

Isaac if Boti truly hoped the Crocs to survive maybe he should consider writing blogs that talk about the success of the club not a quick grab to pull them down. Maybe a blog about the great work they do in the community. Maybe then a sponsor or fan might just jump on board. But suggesting they are gone without fact or reference to any legitimate research is basically throwing a grenade and running away from it. I do not see how cryptic comments and rumour serve the club or the game well. Lets face a truth this type of comment is Boti's self serving way to create traffic and interest through his blog and he has little regard for the damage it causes. My point is simple - write an article on factual knowledge rather than a gossip column and then maybe we can take the back handed 'oh but I hope the Crocs survive' comment with some genuineness.

Townsville can support a team. It's a rapidly growing city and the club was the financial benchmark for the league up until 10 years ago.

The league needs to step in and save the current administration from itself, but they are either just as clueless or eager to let them die.

"Townsville can support a team"

The crowds would suggest otherwise.

Listen I would hate to see TVL go, but what's the point of the league pumping dollars into a venture that isn't going to be long-term and sustainable.

e.g. the league can put dollars into the Crocs, but once that $ stops/decreases, the Crocs will be back in the same dire situation they are in now.

Putting dollars into a venture without addressing the real reasons why the venture isn't successful is entrepreneurial idiocracy.

TVL fans need to take some responsibility IMO.

Their fans can't just sit back and cry for help when only 2k (maybe less?) are turning up per game at the RSL.

The Crocs have 232 members of the club (as they are community owned). Want them to stick around? Consider joining them! Or, if you think they should move, get the support and vote it in at the AGM

They don't need dollars, they need sound business advice.

The league should have reviewed their ticket pricing scheme from day one this year and veto'd it, to cite but one example. The league should have reviewed their community restructure model from day one and told them to come back with something better; something more sustainable and realistically obtainable (ie. not a model that had them banking on a 150k profit per year in 2015, as their current model states, from memory).

Here we are, halfway through the season, and the league still hasn't stepped in to review their insane ticket prices. This club is going to fold while people are sitting on their hands.

I understand that people's time = $$$, but it's not a cash injection they need. They need best practices advice from other clubs, and then appropriate policies need to be mandated by the league.

This franchise needs to be on a shorter leash. It's largely a volunteer operation right now: there is plenty of passion, heart and soul being poured into the club, but they need help and direction from experienced people outside of the organisation. They need business advice that they aren't getting internally.

There is no reason why they can't return to sustainability.

The market is there, people just don't have a good enough reason to go to games any more.

MACDUB.

To elaborate, i have been to many Ulm games having lived in the area for a year. Before this new stadium they played at the university, cheap stadium simliar to dandy, kilsyth and other SEABL stadiums.

Ulm ran a sustainable roster, not going after high dollar guys, had cheap beer (3 euros), a massive BBQ set up outside serving brats, burgers and other German food. Is some of the best fun I've had watching basketball.

If only the league would go back to playing community basketball, cheap beer, reasonable ticket prices some of these smaller clubs may be able to survive. Your Perth's, Melbourne's can run bigger budgets.

I understand that the NBL favours maintaining higher ticket pricing rather than dropping it just to fill seats.

Shouldn't it be up to the clubs to charge the prices they deem suitable? Why should the NBL have any say in the price of tickets for Townsville?

The only way to grow the league is to make money and keeping the crocs isn't doing that, The NBL has to go to lengths to help them remain in the league when they could be spending it on advertisement and promotion. Waste of precious money!

Plus 100 to what mick said. With average attendance of 3500 last year there is no reason why rsl shouldn't have been at capacity. They priced themselves out of market pure and simple. Reidy let go mark McGregor who was the sales and marketing guy last year and who has been a large put of the club for years. Then bailed himself and left the crocs with no-one, not saying it's pat's fault, just that there has been a lack of leadership on the business end.

The ticket pricing issue should have been fixed after game two, when they saw they screwed it up. Every season ticket holder from last year that does not have a ticket should receive a personal phone call from the Gm, saying sorry we f'd up but here is a special rate at $25 a game as a package for the remaining games.

Also not sure why the crocs couldn't negotiate a bbq out the front of the venue on game nights to raise money for a community club. Current options are beer, hot chips, soft drinks or coffee.

How do you grow revenue?

Get more customers- promote $25 tickets (some season ticket holders will be cranky but at least we might have a chance to be around next year then fix the pricing plan)
Keep up the good work with players in the community

Get customers to purchase more often - get Gm on to every previous season ticket holder to sign up for the rest of the season. Promote three or four game packages.

Get customers to spend more- bbq on game nights, get local butcher to sponsor and provide meat at cost. There's a coffee van at the entrance but no food come on!

Fill the bloody stadium so sponsors might be interested

Dennis and Kelly have done a great job with the team they have put together, it's just frustrating the rest is such a mess.

Speed44, I'm not 100% sure but I got the impression that the NBL has provided advice to some of the clubs on what they should be doing with ticketing.

I always liked the Suns/Crocs they have always been my 2nd favourite team after the 36ers and as much as I enjoy watching them play this season I think it would be better for the NBL if they were let go and replaced by a Brisbane based team.

"just to fill seats"

That's an interesting turn of phrase.

Yes, leave out the "just" maybe to catch my intent. Filling a stadium at a cheaper return has benefits for atmosphere and sponsorship.

Maybe Boti's motive is to create some negative publicity towards the crocs to deflect attention from the 36'ers financial woes

Yeah, I wasn't having a go at you Isaac, I was thinking after years and years of empty seats in a number of cities it seems a strange policy for the league to have, if true, and the way you phrased it summed that up very well.

I know lots of clubs have shared best practices with the Crocs (including Cairns whose community model has been far more successful, and as anon above implied, advice went unheeded), but my point is the league needs to have them on a short leash and actually MANDATE certain business practices. This stuff doesn't cost that much money. The board of governors would just review certain aspects of their operation at each meeting. The league should be signing off on everything they do until they can prove they are competent and sustainable. Of course that is only as good as the league having a clue on what is right for the club in the first place...

Of course the league should be letting Perth charge whatever they want for their tickets, but the Crocs have earned no such leeway.

As Kr said, they were averaging 3.5k attendance at season and now they are at around 1.3k. That's far less than half. There is no reason why the new venue shouldn't be at capacity.

The sad thing is, this stuff is relatively straightforward to fix, there's just a lack of vision. They don't understand that when you need to re-grow your brand nearly from scratch, you need to give the market certain concessions. They are basically a start-up, but they're acting like they are the LA Lakers. It rubs lots of people the wrong way.

And further to that, it's such a shame given the top notch roster that Dennis and Kelly have put together. Yes, they are under-performing, but they are very young, and I would posit that with a rocking, packed-out venue they probably wouldn't have dropped a home game this year. That stuff then really start to affect the basketball side of the operation.

Well it shows how important your front office leadership is.

Barry Gibson was the architect of all that off court success, and after he left, his successor Ian Smythe was nowhere near as savvy. Smythe more or less oversaw the decline of the club, and now you have the current situation.

paul, I can see merit in the approach of maintaining higher prices as it sets a higher theoretical cap in return from attendance and maybe it's something supported by pro marketing strategies that I'm unaware of, but in practice it's just too different a story in various places.

I know the pricing is one strong factor for many people, especially if you're trying to introduce people to the game or attract occasionals (who would number 2k+ in Adelaide). I think a league that has busy stadiums and loads of atmosphere might have more luck attracting TV.

It would be sad if the Crocs folded. Whilst they have never won the championship they have nonetheless been very competitive many times.

Unfortunately they seem to have lost the plot. They have gone from selling out the Entertainment Centre, to being unable to fill a venue half the size.
They need to get their s___ together and re-engage with the community.
A team in a small regional city isn't going to survive without extraordinary community support. They've had it in the past, but it has apparently gone out the window.

Agree Isaac, it should be horses for courses, but really there's only one thoroughbred that should be charging high prices for more than the closest seats.

Townsville (and Cairns) are somewhat incongruous, relatively small cities supporting national league team(s). It possibly doesn't help that they may have to compete with the Cowboys for the local corporate dollar.
I don't know how many members they have, but I'd wager that based on percentage of population they probably do better than the Cats. To survive they need an exceptional level of community support, plus generous corporate largesse. And given that the latter will somewhat depend on the former, getting "bums on seats" is critical.
It's NOT impossible, but extraordinary in an NBL context. Percentage wise they need a level of attendance normally reserved for AFL teams.