Haven't seen Reesy's name in the boxscores for a few weeks? Is he injured?

i think he's on hollies or away for buisness or something. fair sure he's not injured

he isnt injured, just on holidays he will back for the finals tho.

anonymous to answer your question: get fit, lose weight, improve attitude & get up to ABL level standard

A little Harsh ... There d ... But probally around the mark ....Thats a great effort by the Lion Girls sad they couldnt get up for the win ...

the lions girls went good i wanted them 2 win

The centrals got robbed by a terrible call by one of the umpires. She called an unsportsmanlike foul with 9 or so seconds left on the clock. When centrals were down by two it cost them the game, I mean they may have not won it anyway but they took all doubt out of the equation. That ref should have not been doing that game anyway she used to play and coach for Woodville at one point in time.

If you take away refs because they have an association with a club then you would have a severe shortage of refs. Trust me if she was good enough to ref ABA, she is good enough to be impartial.

Crap

anonymous must be a REF! I dont think it comes down to inexperience, what would any coach tell you to do in a situation like that.?? FOUL! you see it in NBL games WNBL games etc etc. No rugby tackle was involved, it was just a foul, like many of the others during the game. It happened again a couple of seconds later, exactly the same kind of 'tackle'as you like to put it and that didnt get called for an unsportsman like foul.
The umpire is a woodville coach and deeply involved in woodville and can be proud of herself to say she won the game for woodville.

Anon were you even at the game? She never hurt the her or caused the girl to even touch the ground, I agree it was a hard foul but i still think it was a little harsh to give her an unsportsman like for that!!

Anon, for your information, i have been around bball for probably longer than you have been alive. Chik is right, she never hurt the girl nor did the girl even fall over, must have been a real hard tackle hmmmmm. Could have been a lot harder. Those refs got the grandfinal games because they deserve it and are professional enough to be refs, unlike the ref on saturday night. Maybe Nathan or Amy should be teaching this ref how to do her job.

ANON you must be the ref that called the foul?
if so, you need to be more professional, need to be consistent in your calls, and know the difference between a foul and an unsportsman like foul...if the girl was on a fast break and someone pushed her in the back or tripped her over, pulled her shirt or was dirty in anyway fair enough call the unsportsman like foul, but serioulsy that call was SOFT

The foul certainly was unsportsmanlike. Shae hit Lyndell with no intention of making a play at the ball, as such..... good call. It takes balls to make a call like that, but it was the right one in the situation. Surely if you want to stop the clock you make a play at the ball or at least the arms to make it look like a sportsmanlike foul?? Takes more smarts on Centrals behalf.
This was a big learning experience for the girls, and hopefully they can take something away from this game so next time they are in this situation better decisions are made.
Does anyone know if a report was made after the game based on the behaviour of the Centrals coaching staff and players towards the officials??

Maybe a ref could give a definition of what is unsportsmanlike. My understanding is that there does not have to be an injury, or even a "hard foul" as it has been described.

My understanding is that if a foul is seen as not being a genuine attempt to play the ball, it can be called unsportsmanlike. A pull on the singlet, a clumsy hack from behind etc...

refs... clear this one up!

Who cares. Woodville won, Centrals lost. Move along little doggie....

I was under the same understand thedoctor, I always thought it was ref's discretion as to whether or not any attempt was made at the ball or whether it was unsportsmanlike in they were just fouling.

An old school "intentional foul" and "unsportsmanlike foul" are different; and a soft foul can still be unsportsmanlike; to foul on purpose is bring the game into disrepute hence an "unsportsmanlike" foul and reading what others have written it surly sounds like an "unsportsmanlike" foul.

The wording "unsportsmanlike like foul" is reason to suggest that it was the right call to make, if it was a hard foul, with 9 seconds left and the girl created a foul for any reason to stop the clock is" unsportsmanlike" and would automatically justify the call the umpire made.

what else was shay meant to do in that situation, the players were told to foul if they dont get the steal, no one else was fouling so shay had bust her guts from the other end of the court to foul this girl, to me thats not dumb, thats a player busting her butt trying to help her team out. You would see that in any game in the same situation. Taking into consideration that the centrals girls are desperate to get a win.

But that's the argument every single sport brings up against umpiring standards and interpretation.

No one should be disputing whether it was a smart move, but whether the unsportsmanlike foul was a correct call, and if she fouled on purpose then yes it was a correct call to make

but the point being, that there were many fouls in the last minute of the game, all intentional,(both teams) so why wernt they called unsportsman like aswell?

And umpiring interpretation (holding the ball or ball up) it all about how any umpire will interpret that situation

LAGIDAMENT

Classic Stuff

(Mod: Agreed. I was laughing when I saw it.)

LOL, obvioulsy you spell as well as you umpire!

Anybody who thinks that a player with a close association with a club isn't going to favour that club is just putting their head in the sand.

Ref's are people, people tend to have opinions and will tend to favour those apinion SUB conciously.

So whether you beleive so or not referee's will favour the clubs that they are associated with. But our mighty referee's director seems to be trying to challenge human nature. He think that if we just say it isn't happening then, hey presto, we will all believe him.

Unfortunately percetions are reality, and in our sport, referee bias should not only not occur, but it should be SEEN to not occur. So leave the ref alone. It is Neil Poulton fault. Call him up and let him know.

Absouloutly.

They can ref all other games. Then when somebody say's that Paul Welbourne favours South, you can always turn back and say. Why? Sure if it were Sturt. But it is not.

Otherwise if Nathan Durant does a North game. Prove to me that he is not human and can't possibly have any interest in the outcome of the game.

Seriously - it's all over now.

fo, if you have such a problem with the umpiring, pull on a guernsey yourself and get to the same level that the refs on the night worked to get to. It's always the ones who bitch the most about the refs that have never reffed a game themselves.

Back luck to Centrals - it was a game of give-and-take, a terrible game to watch if you ask me, but I don't think the refs should be blamed for the outcome of the game. In every game there are things that are not picked up by the umpires that could influence the outcome of the game. The unsportsmanlike foul was there in my opinion. There is a certain tact that most people have when fouling to win towards the end of the game, unfortunately for Shae, she seemed to miss out. It was a really stupid thing to do, to foul that hard, because everyone knows how common it is for a ref to look for the unsportsmanlike foul in this situation and call it, even if it is 'soft'. A smart foul is a slap. Slap at the ball, maybe she would have got a steal, either way, if you hear the slap, it would be called. A foul, like Shae committed, where she pretty much ran into the player, was not smart.

Woodville were up by 2 or so anyway, Lyndel made the shots, they got the ball back and didn't score. Woodville won by 4. Even if it wasn't called an unsportsmanlike, the likelihood of Centrals scoring 4 points (for the draw) was just as slim.

So basically, stop bitching because your team lost.

Bridgeman should not do Woodville games that's for sure!

problem is that ref's don't call a soft tap as a foul in the last minute.

Heard one Zebra say that they were using the abvantage rule for the offence.

So then the defence needs to foul harder. The the same fool goes and calls an unsportsmanlike foul.

Bad refereeing makes the player need to foul hard just to get the call. Or better still a referee with an affiliation with a club can make an unsportsmanlike call.

PS Neil Shouldn't you be doing some work

I'm actually from another club. My issue is not with the call but with the perception that referee's are humans and therefore inherently biased towards their self interests.

Until Neil works out that we need to be seen to have impartial ref's we will continue to have players, teams and clubs that feel hard done by what they see as favouratism.

Just pointing out that it is possible for a referee to use their preference for a club to easily influence the outcome of a game.

So just using the current argument to prove my point.

Did you not read my last sentence?

It was a crap call it was easy to see that she made a play at the ball she fouled her hard but there was a play at the ball. Over all tho centrals should have never been in that situation with all the free throws that they missed. But that's not even the point, they were in that situation and it was a call that cost them the game.

centrals ppl ill tell u the same thing as i told the south ppl last week.Sto crying over spilt milk. shit happens some times so deal with it. it aint the refs fault u lost, its the players fault tthat was called for an usportsman like foul. the game and season is over for both teams so shut up please.

It seems everyone agrees it was a foul. If the contact had been by a Woodville player and as a result they had lost the game, then faceless Woodville people would be dribbling here.

The behaviour of the Centrals coach was absolutely UPSPORTSMANLIKE and he should look in the mirror for reason why they lost!!

I hope all the refs named here read this and take legal action for the slander spread about them.

To accuse them of anyway trying to infleunce outcomes of games is ludicrous.

These people have worked hard, and have proven themselves over and over again, only to have people hiding behind psuedonyms, anonymous posting, bitch and whine about something they obviously know jack shit about.

I wont comment on the call, as I wasn't there....but the rules are quite clear that if there is no attempt to play the ball, it is automatically an unsportsmanlike foul (go to the FIBA website and read the rules if you could actually bother).

To all the refs involved in finals, best of luck, and may they go well for you, as well as all the teams involved.

This **** is B A N A N A S ! lol

By FO's reasoning, I can't umpire after school basketball cos i went to primary school 22 years ago and i might be biased towards my old school!

Fer Christ's Sake!

I witnessed this game and can I say that Sharna Breavington played a blinder!

Taya improved all season and played a great game before being injured.

Shannon Gates, late for whatever reason only played the last quarter and with her for the whole game the scoreline would have been vastly different.

Woodville can take heart that they pushed quite a few teams this season, and no particular game could they say they were totally blown away. Or that they did not try.

Vera Craig's motto always was if you tried your best you should hold your head high.

There has been an improvement in the team this season especially in team work and cohesion.

Well done girls and I look forward to next season and see Lyndell, Kelly and Charly continue to improve. And for Taya and Sharna to step forward in a big way and show us all what they are certainly capable of.

Well done girls.

Gates had her wisdom teeth out on the Thursday (or something, I'm not sure). Workhorse effort getting to the game!

Yeah, 3 of them yanked on Thursday.

The woodville girls played a strong competitive game as did my girls, it was exciting to coach and be involved in. My behaviour at the end of the game was indeed questionable and I will apologise for that. I feel bad for the referee in question, I dont think that any referee should be in a situation to ref a game for the club he/she coaches with (important or not) there were 3 other games that night that a referee not associated with either club would have been switched from, that would have solved this whole problem.
That not withstanding all this crap about what should have happened doesn't matter, Woodville won the game and should be congratulated (which i did at the post game award supper). I am proud of the improvment of my team and look forward to continued growth.

Thanks for my first ABL season I had a blast...see you next season.
Glenn

Anonymous and Yogee,

What I am saying is that schedule them onto games that do not involve the above teams. Period. Take away the idea that they MIGHT subconsciously act like real people and inadvertantly make a decision based on human nature.

This takes away players, coaches and clubs from being able to say favouites were played.

There is a big difference in being an aquantience with somebody from a club and being actively involved like a Nathan Durant is with North.

Paul Welbourne is mates with alot of players, but doesn't really have a home club.

Not talking extremes here, only smart cloe associations like a current coach of a club refereeing that club.

Obviously then, Centrals have never been umpired by someone who is, in any way, affiliated with the club?

This whole thread is stupid. Woodville won. Enough said.

I'm glad the Central's coaching staff are appologetic for their performances after the game, because that itself was a huge embarrasment to the club. From my perspective anyway.

To Anon WHO LIKES TO USE CAPITALS TO HAVE THEIR SAY, Glenn talks to the refs before any game, he will even talk to coaches and players on the other team, thats just his personality, it has nothing to do with getting friendly with the umpires so they give centrals a fair go, (thats just a joke!)

Why do some people find it so easy to question other people's integrity?

It a game of basketball its not like some bookie had 10 K on it at centre bet.

Fair Game, your plan to have referees only ref games with clubs they have no association with is ridiculous.

Where do you draw the line? Must they have played with the club for there to be a perceived bias? What if their kids play with the club? Or their ex-girlfriend plays with the club?

Must referees submit a list of clubs they have an association with, and the extent of any possible bias?

This is no more than an attempt to find a scapegoat by people who support a club who came very close to their first win in a long time, and disappointment has clouded their judgement.

By reading your previous posts, you agree that it was a 'hard foul'. If their was no genuine attempt to play the ball, by that I mean the intention all along was to foul, then an unsportsmanlike foul is not unreasonable. Whether the girl was knocked to the ground is not relevant.

The foul-to-force-freethrows is a blight on the game anyway. If you can't win through genuine defence, then you don't deserve to win. Fouls in the last 2-3 mins when in the bonus should result in 1 free throw and possession. This would stop the deliberate fouling and force teams to get a stop.

Well thedoctor and others,

I have no assocation with either of the clubs in that game. I did not see the game. I have no idea if it was a good or bad call. What I am saying is if it is somebody who has no affiliation with Woodville like Paul Welbourne then it is impossible for Centrals members to percieve unequal treatment. Draw the line at any point, but accpet that it is an issue, rather than hiding our heads in the sand saying it isn't. Simple

And thedoctor, the problem is that FIBA have decided that fouls in the last 2 minutes are not worthy of side ball. Therefore they have decreed that forving your opponents to shot free throws to get the ball back is an important coaching aspect of the game. Your opion here is unimportant and irrelevant. As is mine that watchiong teams try and get back into games increases the suspence. Or maybe we cut the shot clock back to 15 seconds to stop teams from running down the clock???

The problem is that poor referee's change the way they call the game in the last 2 minutes rather than call a consistant game. If they made the exact same calls there would be no need to make hard fouls because you would be able to stop the clock on a soft foul. Hence no problem.

The problem is that they dont always call the soft foul under the premice of advantage for the offencive team.

Guys,

when we ref at ABL level, we are paid to be PROFESSIONAL. Yes most of us have been involved with a club at some stage as a player, or coach.

As stated above I have played for 3 clubs,I played my Juniors at North, and my seniors with Woodville & Norwood, which was my most recent outing as a player. This association ended 2 years ago when I realised that I had no game! :)

Refereeing for me is about being involved in the game I love, not about going out and supposedly "screwing other clubs".

I really couldn't care less who wins a game, I just try to be fair and call it as I see it. Remember supporters only look through one coloured eye.

I watched the game that the ref in question did, as I was there to ref the mens game. She did very well across the course of the game, and when it came to the crunch in making that call, how many first year refs have you seen that have had the guts to make a call like that in a close game?

It does not matter what club you are from, as the people you see reffing junior basketball on a friday night or saturday morning, especially the young ones, are usually involved with the club in the stadium they are reffing at. Do you really think refs grow on trees? we try to promote getting young players involved in reffing, s they can stay involved when their playing career finishes.

mp,

I'm not saying ref's are biased. And we all acknowledge that supporters are one eyed. That is why we need to do the best possible job of alligning non-member referee's to games.

What is being said is take away the opportunity for people to have a go at the ref by putting them on a non-woodville game. If they make exactly the same call it is then either considered a good or bad call. Now it is considered either a biased or unbiased call. Not good for the ref, the game or the sport. That way there can not be the same critism of bias toward the novice referee. Therefore we might not lose as many ref's. Does that make it clear.

understood, but just by the background of a lot of referees, most of them have played for a club at some stage or another.

if you saw the work the rostering commitee has been doing, everything of that nature is taken into consideration.

you would have seen a lot of holes that needed to be filled while ABL refs were attending National Championships etc. Sometimes it is not possible to roster certain people to certain games.

I remember a time when I was playing u/20 div 2, where my team finished bottom and I ended up refereeing the Grand final for that group. Sometimes you dont have a choice with numbers of refs available.

Fair game, you have not answered my question. Where do you draw the line? I know Paul Welbourne and I could easily blackmail him (and him me) about some of his out-on-the town exploits late on a Saturday night. Does this mean he can't ref my games?

He lived with Jason Williams. Can he not ref Sturt games? Where do you draw the line? Does perceived bias only extend to refs who have played for a club?

Everyone else posting can see your suggestion is ridiculous. Every ref has an association with clubs, some have played for multiple clubs. Rostering refs to avoid perceived bias would be a logistical nightmare.

The problem is not with the refs, it's with people like you. You change your perception. Why put BASA and refs (who cop it enough already) out of joint to satisfy an ignorant minority?

And, if refs are forced to ref "non aligned" clubs..what about club rivalries.....

Imagine a Sturt "based" ref reffing the Forestville / South game, knowing the result could improve Sturts final standing for the playoffs?

Could that ref then "screw over" South to ensure Sturt got a better spot?

I am in NO WAY suggesting this occurs. Just saying, if they can be accused of sub consciously supporting their "own" club, then why wouldn't they subconsciously "screw" their rival clubs?

I think this all a load of huge bullsh*t, and we should all be congratulating and supporting our refs, ensuring we have enough to keep the game alive!

it was a bad call bbad bad call I cant beleive it wow wee what a shocker.
luv mattkins

All this thread really will manage to do is dishearten yet another young up and coming ref, giving her reason to wonder if it is all worth it, because some know all knob heads who have probably never pulled a whistle on in their lives seem to think they know better.

At least Glen is man enough to acknowledge he was incorrect in his behaviours, and has apologised. Some of you other anonymous tossers need to grow some cojones and do the same!

Without starting another 100 posts about Centrals, can anyone fill me in with why Jye and Justin didn't play? Is Wilkey still injured?

later in this discussion i noticed that an "anonymous" thread has said about the inexperience of younger players letting centrals down. how can they do anything if they go onto the court with only 15 seconds to go and watch 4 sets of foulshots? please explain..dont have a go at me anyone i jsut want to know im not being biast or anything.