The Hawks did a great job tonight with music during game play. They had some music but more importantly is was the correct music played at key times when the crowd was in a lull. When the crowd was chanting the music stopped. When the crowd got loud the music stopped.

Get over it geoff, music creates atmosphere.

I like the music .

I she that the music is over the top music is great, ambience important but i agree it to full on, some children don't like it. I'm there to watch bball not listen to concert volume music.

An excellent treatise Geoff. Many fine points.

Respectfully, is it mostly a demographic/cultural thing though?

Hear me out for a second.

It's no secret basketball and hip hop music (and culture) are largely intertwined. Anyone that disagrees on a serious level here may be being disingenous.

In fact the NBA even tries to erradicate, or remove, sanitize if you will much of this. An example you old cats wil remember was my man Iverson, the subsequent fashion changes etc. No Do-rags, overly hip hop clothing etc. Now I'm a grown man, a professional, as w/ these players so you'll find me dressing appropriately. Acting appropriately. Speaking appropriately. A question though, what is appropriate anyway? Who makes it appropriate?

Anyway, NBL, if it tries too import too many of these things will soon discover it is a failed experiment, especially in a market that is not bathed in hip hop culture. At least it has no strong cultural singnificance as in say Brooklyn, Bronx, Harlem ... much of the United States.

So my question is, is it a cultural thing? Granted nowadays the music you hear is every bit as pop as that cherry cream soda I was sipping on at my colleague's 10 year old son's grandfinal game but would it make any difference if the music played was say rock? Grasping at straws somewhat there. Too many assumptions in taste of music 'n whatnot. All I'm saying is, if the music was mostly what conformed to the "Australian mainstream ideal", would that make a difference?

Honest questions.

I love the game, been playing and following since the early 90s myself, since I was 7-8. I've seen the cultural changes in hip hop, and have definitely witnessed the growth, acceptance to a level and even emulation of hip hop in Australia over that time. This can be said of many predominantly European countries though.

But Geoff, whether you understand it or not, unwittingly or not, you bring up a lot of cultural issues in your post.

Fantastic post, great discussion and I'm interested to see where it will go.

Happy to elaborate further on my points. I wrote this in a rush so necessarily it is not as nuanced as it needs to be.

Alright y'all, now, to catch-up some reruns!

Best.

Anyways, how was the game?

Maybe the NBL needs to define a more unique Australian experience?

For instance, the Emceeing if you will, and the necessary music and antics that come with that, these are all things that are largely imported from brand NBA and by extension, brand America. It works in the United States, not necessarily in other cultures.

That "lack of definition" could be one of the things that is precisely holding the NBL back from greater mind and market share in Aus. Who knows...

I like the right balance of music, no music would be a bad thing.

Echo the comments that the Hawks got it right, when the crowd was loud the music was low and vice versa.

It's balance

Agree 100% that it is the balance of volume, tempo, timing and suitability. Get it right and the music is what sets hoops apart from most Aussie sports, get it wrong and people new to the game especially start wondering where the hell they are!

A sport or a concert?

No, don't get rid of it and no don't turn it off during play, just work on getting the balance right and enjoy the unique atmoshpere...

I'm with Bear.

I largely stopped going to Tigers games after years and years because of the loud music and artificial lame attempts to get some buzz going, which really weren't needed. I loved to read the game and follow the strategy and feel the crowd's passion, but there was just too much distraction getting in the way.

Maybe it's because this great game is no longer viewed as a sport but just as another form of entertainment.
Maybe it's a generational thing - Personally, I hate sensory overload, but it seems to be quite standard for kids these days.

I'm with Bear.

I largely stopped going to Tigers games after years and years because of the loud music and artificial lame attempts to get some buzz going, which really weren't needed. I loved to read the game and follow the strategy and feel the crowd's passion, but there was just too much distraction getting in the way.

Maybe it's because this great game is no longer viewed as a sport but just as another form of entertainment.
Maybe it's a generational thing - Personally, I hate sensory overload, but it seems to be quite standard for kids these days.

Get rid of the extended music during play phases, but more, get rid of the rudeness in making the opposition wait (game ready) while we go through our built up player intros after tip off time.
Obviously, Cairns were ready to play last night but we had'nt introduced our players.
Krept in last year, and is unfair on the opposition - beat them on court, not with a mind game.

What people need to realise is that although many "basketball" fans can sit and watch a full length game with no added entertainment... the masses - unfortunately - can not.

This is why the Wildcats are successful in attracting large crowds. Their game night music isn't the best and they play too much of it, but music is necessary as it is part of the "game night entertainment package".

At this moment in time, to sell basketball you need to sell a night of entertainment.

This includes over the top intro's, cheerleaders, half time entertainment, competitions, give aways, crowd participation.

If it was up to basketball fans to fill arenas it just wouldn't happen... not because there aren't millions of us... there just aren't that many that care for the NBL. It's improving but the talent level is not quite there yet.

Fans should complain about the type, choice and amount of music at games. However to stop it all together would not be the correct option.

Music is great, the floor wiper music is going to be a tough one to deal with all season long. Ohhh and the fact the 6ers are going to suck due to lack of size and go to guys.

Lots of great points all round.

I'm leaning in RMQ's direction at the moment, although I somewhat deplore marketing jargon like "game night entertainment package". I suspect this may be RMQ's position aswell hence the inverted.

What's more annoying though, in line with the above is probably this:

"At this moment in time, to sell basketball you need to sell a night of entertainment"

Grits teeth.

On the NBL--the talent, I'll stick my neck out and say the preferred league for a lot of folks is the NBA, NCAA, possibly then followed by Euro and the other various assortment of leagues with NBL placing somewhere in that assortment. If you grew up playing ball though, still play some on a competitive basis, or have now retired to armchair afficionado, and now live in Australia, you really DON'T care what type or league it is, as long you can some, ANY basketball. My real gripe is with the NBL, or the powers that be (Basketball Australia?) for the lack of promotion, lack of coverage.

If it's a question of attracting sponspors, well marketers should know sometimes you gotta' spend money to make money.

Maybe the NBL needs to accept a niche demographic as it seems that's what basketball folks are in Aus, and target us instead of trying to spread too thin, diluting the product, or possibly introducing gimmicky sh*t like what seems to have rubbed my man Geoff up there the wrong way :).

Can someone tell me, who's running marketing for the NBL? Makes me wonder sometimes whether they aren't out of touch?

Kobe24, concur with both points.

I think the music has gotten way out of hand the last few years. Geoff eloquently summed up my and many others opinions about the music perfectly.

However - I do agree with RMQ that the NBL feels the need to sell itself as an entertainment package rather than a sporting spectacle. Until the mainstream media starts to give basketball some respect and treat it like a sport and actually cover it when they cover all the other main professional sports, then the NBL will look to sell its product as an entertainment package instead.

Going to an NBL game is a "night out", where music is an integral part of the game.

I say the league needs to seriously scale back the amount of music played, and achieve a better balance. But like it or not, there is no way music will be canned completely. There just isn't enough of a hard core basketball following for that to work.

Lyrics aren't the problem, it's the lack of crowd engagement. It needs to be something people can clap/chant to, whether it has lyrics or not isn't an issue.

I had season tickets to Sixers in the early to mid '00s for a few seasons running. The music back then, at the Powerhouse (as you older cats will remember) was right on point in my opinion. Maybe I'm just yearning for nostalgia. Man, I miss that city, can't wait to return as a resident. But I don't miss that water! Dang, what do they put in that stuff? One of life's questions! And that heat, goddamn, that heat is a killer.

Anon@16:02,

In my opinion, exactly right regarding the rhythmic. Yet in the broader scope of what you say, it is starting to confirm my suspicions of wholesale import, without necessarily understanding cultural underpinnings, why it works(!)

Consider the following excerpt, which needs to be treated carefully as it comes from Wikipedia, nevertheless:


"The use of music at sporting events is a practice that is thousands of years old, but has recently had a resurgence as a noted phenomenon. Some sports have specific traditions with respect to pieces of music played at particular intervals. Others have made the presentation of music very specific to the team—even to particular players. Music may be used to build the energy of the fans, and music may also be introduced in ways that are less directly connected with the action in a sporting event"


If any of that holds true, then it is very telling. What is important to note in my opinion are the themes of “tradition”, “particular intervals”, “specificity”, “tempo & energy”.

Here's the full piece, a paltry read nonetheless:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_at_sporting_events

Best.

It needs to be the right tempo,not duff duff nightclub psycho music that arcs you up and you need some serious stuff to tolerate it and numb your ears..

Also mean to add (must have overlooked), Bear, right on!

Geoff sounds like he's waiting to hear that John Paul Young hit from the 70's. And no, it's not " Love is in the air"!

Fans could protest and turn up to games with earmuffs and put them on if the music was playing too often. I watched the Perth, NZ game on tv last night. i haven't seen a game in a while and noticed most of the game there was constant music playing. I had to turn the volume down because it started to annoy me after awhile.

Imagine an earmuff protest at a televised game. That could make the NBL bosses take notice.

My suggestion I for everyone to stop posting here and actually send your thoughts and suggestions to the head office of your home team. That's the only way things will change.

I know for a fact the Wildcats are very 'family focused' and this in addition to their sponsor 'alcohol think again' hinders there ability to improve music use at game.

They do not play any songs referencing sex, drugs or alcohol and will not play any songs with swear words..., even if they are censored. They received a complaint about the use of rock and roll part 2 by Gary glitter and so that isn't used any more.

They don't want to offend anyone and they don't sant kids coming to a game and picking up a song and then a parent asking where they heard it and then it getting associated with the club.

I believe this is extremely over the top.

Current team 'DJs' also have no sense of when and what to play.

The NBL is unique in that u can play songs with lyrics. But they need to be used at the right times and should be played all the time.

To the person that mentioned finding a niche. The wildcats have done this and this is why the on court product is what it is. Their niche is families with young kids. The 18-5 year old males aren't part of their plan. Hence the cheerleaders not exposing mid-rift or featuring hip shaking moves.

If u want this changed u MUST email ur clubs with ideas and complaints. It's the only way to change things.

yeah turn off the music so we can hear all the swearing and trash talk..

Music is a must on game days / nights but seriously, playing a song for the first three minutes of a game, having music over the refs calls and so forth is not on! Adelaide was poor Friday night and Melbourne was shocking Sunday.. Poor United announcer was drowned out by his sound team many times!

"They received a complaint about the use of rock and roll part 2 by Gary glitter and so that isn't used any more."
Seriously? That's ridiculous.

Yeah it's a bit shit when you can't actually interact with even the rest of the crowd cause the music's too loud. Every time I bring new people to the game too, they end up complaining about it, so I don't think it's just a matter of people who really into the sport hating it and everyone else loving it.

I'm all for music and entertainment at the games, but it definitely needs to be toned down a notch or two (speaking from experience at Melbourne games)

Another important rule with playing music at games is... If u cut a song because of a stoppage in play. U don't continue playing it.

Live basketball doesn't need a constant backing track. It can be enhanced by a well designed and times soundtrack.

Like a movie. U use certain songs and effects at certain times to enhance the emotion and connection to the game.

It's pretty simple if u know what u are doing. Unfortunately a lot of clubs just don't pay enough attention to the little details that have big effects on game night experience.

My concern is that it doesn't appear to be dynamic, as in the DJ just seems to have a set script of songs to play throughout and sticks with it. I'd like to see a DJ who actually understands the flow of the game and can adjust their music accordingly.
But I am definitely all for removing or reducing the in-gameplay music, I could hear it on the TV broadcast yesterday and that was annoying, let alone hearing it at the game.

I'm all for just a few catchy riffs and grabs they pop in after or during certain parts of the game and then some catchy good tempo songs in between at Time outs and breaks. Sixers had none of the clap along grabs from last year. It was terrible. Last years formula worked well and the crowd was pumped every game but last week was completely different and the was no atmosphere at all.

Great stuff! Deep down I agree with Geoff, but accept that there is a role for some music. However, it needs to be 'right' ... right tempo/tone, short 'stings' relevant to the action and game situation. Playing full numbers [particularly songs (with vocals!)] remorselessly over the top of the action 'squashes the game' and blocks interaction, rather than encouraging it.

And sleptOn's observation about the cultural relevance/suitability is spot on. Despite our apparent 'Americanisation' a lot of American attitudes and approaches don't work well in Australia.

One of the issues, I believe, is the affinity with and understanding of the game by the 'music man' or woman. If s/he has no feeling for the game it's going to be messy no matter what.

We can still have a satisfying, even exciting, 'game-night experience' with the game, rather than the music, as the centre-piece, which is actually is. And perhaps that's the key. The league, the club organisers/decision makers and the 'music man' whoever that might be, needs to put the game first and build the rest around it, rather than treating the game action as secondary - as they so often seem to.

Solid Moves, it seemed really loud on TV but I assumed it was just microphone positioning. Was it really that bad?

its about the people at the game, they pay for atmosphere. TV coverage comes later. Deal with it.

Hoopie - It wasnt overly loud, just more obnoxious. I know the Perth Arena is real loud and it's an issue for some people.. Adelaide just had no idea and Melbourne were spastics. I'd say the Mics were just in a bad position.

@Geoff, you have a point (several in fcat), but other sports vying for airtime with the NBL do use music at strategic times to increase their entertainment value.

One sport (cricket) with their Big Bash competition is going further and further with this concept than most. If you care to have a look at what they are doing you will see what I mean.

Maybe the Big Bash concept of in your face music and dancers. fireworks and pazzaz is a distraction to some cricket purists, but they are not the target audience, the kids and families at their games are.

The NRL has cheerleaders and fireworks when a try is scored, they have plenty of music and atmosphere at key moments in thier games and some AFL venues are increasingly employing these tactics during strategic moments during football matches (or between actual game play moments) to enhance the ambiance.

Look at what Port Adelaide are doing to enhance crowd participation (yes I know the crowd itself is singing like they do in the soccer, but basketball isn't there yet)!

I am not totally against your complaint Geoff, but I don't agree that basketball is the only sport doing this, we may be getting it wrong because we are an indoor event and we are not taking into consideration the factors associated with this, however we are not Robinson Caruso here either.

I still stand by my earlier comment and would no like to see the music cut off, rather the NBL take a more serious look at how it is being done and working to get it right perhaps...

Great to see this post has generated so much debate and varying opinions. The more people inspired to discuss / debate / think about our local league, the better.

Also great to see that Andrew Gaze, Andrew Bogut have taken to social media to blast the excessive use of music over the top of game action at NBL games in the last week, AND that Roy Ward at downtownball.net has also taken up the issue as well - check his article out here:

http://downtownball.net/2014/10/turn-music/

A lot of great points brought up in response too, and I do tend to agree with many of them.

A few points of clarification re my initial post:

1. I was referring to music played over the top of game-play only, not music played during stoppages (free throws, dead balls, timeouts etc) or half-time/quarter time breaks.

2. By "music" I'm referring to actual tracks / songs (mostly with lyrics), not "rhythms" (beats, Madison-Square-Garden-esque organ rhythms) which have been part of the pro basketball experience since the 1930's and match the timing and rhythm of the usual crowd chants.

sleptOn - Lots of good points. But while I acknowledge that, for some NBL fans and some casual watches, there may be a cultural aspect to how they experience the entire "entertainment package" of an NBL game. But I don't believe for a second that altering the genre of music played during game-play would greatly alter the negative impacts we're currently seeing at NBL games.

The issue is about the volume, duration and regularity of what's being blasted over the top of the main event.

Plus, most of what they're playing at NBL games is actually rock.

Bear - re your last post, yes I and many of my circle have most definitely noted that the NRL, AFL, Big Bash and A-League are all increasing their use of music at their games (and cheerleaders, fireworks etc., but those things are not part of my issue here - that's a whole other conversation).

But I re-iterate - none of those professional leagues are using songs OVER THE TOP OF THEIR MATCH PLAY with anywhere near the regularity or duration as the NBL does. Those leagues all blast it out (for the most part) during play stoppages, after a spectacular play, at half-times etc. For example, there has not been one instance of an NRL club suddenly pumping out "Highway To Hell" when a winger makes a break down the line from their own half with 3 teammates in support and only the opposition's fullback to beat, then letting that track play if that winger somehow gets coccooned by the fullback, ball-and-all, while the play rolls on. It just doesn't happen. They'll play a pumping track if that winger gets the try.... but only after the ref has blown their whistle confirming said try and play has stopped.

Likewise for the Big Bash. It might seem like music is blasting for the duration of each match, but that's predominantly because there's so many extensive breaks in the action (I once used a stopwatch to hand-timed an hour of one-day cricket to see how much actual athletic activity took place (from bowler's run-up to the ball being stopped), just for a laugh, and I counted 2 minutes of "match play" in one hour of televised cricket - an advertisers' dream event).

You generally don't hear "You Shook Me All Night Long" playing over a bowler's run-up, for example. It'll start playing over the speaker system once a fielder / wicket-keeper has stopped the ball (and therefore the "play") and started sending it back through the fielders to the bowler, or after a six has been belted, or after a catch or LBW etc.

To be clear, I've got no issue with the event-management crew at NBL games going buck-wild with their music and other "entertainment package" options when the action is stopped. By all means, bring on the Flying Zucchini trampolining hyper-mascots, the obscure-talent-having performance artistes, the hyper-caffeinated crowd-pumpers firing t-shirts into the stands with air-cannons, the half-court "win a LandCruiser" shootouts, the fit-inducing light shows, the indoor fireworks..... it's what the masses like and, more and more, are accustomed to. The definition of "atmosphere" is different for everyone so who am I to limit the range of options these crews should have to choose from when their main event isn't in motion?

I'm even cool with some in-game "rhythms" - just like at NBA games (have always loved the MSG and old Boston Garden organ routines). Some people love 'em, others hate 'em, but they're a tradition at pro hoops games so again, who am I to put the kybosh on that.

But you bet I've got an issue with music (new, old, mainstream or niche) being played over the top of the actual main event, for all the reasons stated above.

A wee reminder - here's this article from 2012 (2 whole years ago) showing that this has been an ongoing issue for quite awhile now.....

http://www.news.com.au/sport/basketball/shhhh-nbl-told-to-turn-the-music-down/story-fndkzqrr-1226499605727

Volume is an issue, although some of that is how TV mics it up as much as how it is in the arena. Appropriate song choice is an issue. Playing songs for too long is an issue.

I don't, however, think a blanket "no music during play" or even "no music with lyrics during play" rule is the way to go. It's possible to violate the hell out of both those rules and still do it well.

I thought Melbourne had the perfect mix of failure tonight. Large periods of the game with no music, to turn off the casuals who like that sort of thing, followed by "Happy" playing for three straight possessions to turn off everyone else.

koberulz, that rationale would mean you feel like something's missing or not quite right whenever you're watching an AFL game, an NRL game, an A-League game or a Test match.

Because, according to what you're saying, music played over the top of the action is suitable and adds to the experience. Therefore, those other professional competitions are, in your opinion, clearly missing something from their experience.

So am I correct there? Basketball is the only sport getting it right by playing music over the top of their action while in play?

Or do you mean basketball is the only professional sport that actually NEEDS music played over the top of their action to make it a worthwhile spectacle?

Which is it?

Friday night in Wollongong was horrible.

Guy Sebastian was pumping out for about 3/4 straight possessions.

Not a fan of music during games at all, but if you're going to play something, pay some DVBBS Tsunami or Freaks - Timmy Trumpet. Now that will make people lose their minds.

But don't play a Guy Sebastian song about love midway through the game..it's so embarrassing.

MACDUB you are not happy Jan today !!!!

"koberulz, that rationale would mean you feel like something's missing or not quite right whenever you're watching an AFL game, an NRL game, an A-League game or a Test match."
The only one of those I watch with any regularity is AFL. I went to the grand final in 2012, and remember the music going on before the game, followed by that countdown they were doing, with the crowd counting along and a sound effect accompanying each number, then the ball bounced, and a massive cheer...and then dead silence.

Compare that to the 2014 NBL grand final, where the Wildcats had "We Will Rock You" playing throughout the arena, and the entire crowd was standing and clapping along. I know which I prefer.

koberulz, have you ever been to an NBA game? I've been to a handful - some were stinkers, some were outstanding, one was a triple OT thriller in New York - but all of them had atmosphere that far exceeded any live sports event I've ever been to in Australia..... without anything more than the "Dee - Fence" rhythm being played during the action.

At each game the atmosphere was generated before, during and after the game by music and other entertainment that took place outside the action and around it..... not over the top of it.

Even at the two blowout games I went to, they didn't need to mood-control the crowd while the teams stank it up on court, because they had a sensational array of entertainment ready to go at each stoppage in play. No-one around us in the crowd seemed to be that bored because all of these arenas put on a great show AND let the crowd feel the ebb and flow of the game.

I doubt many AFL fans would say they're bored at the majority of the games they attend, despite not having all of the above OR music during the game.

Get rid of the crap background "music" my mute button is wearing out!