This is ridiculous. If they are going to discipline AUS for this then they will have to do the same to every team which has tanked in the past.

Lose a battle to win a war. I'm fine with. Mission is to finish as high as possible. And FIBA on a high horse? With their standard of refs? Yeah.

Thanks for whoever cleaned up my post (Isaac?) - way beyond my skills...

No worries HO. Thanks for posting it - likely to be quite the talking point yet again.

I mean it makes sense that such an unAustralian outrage is handled in such a fashion.

As a country we should be suspended from FIBA and forced to surrender all our basketballs and any spherical object that could be used as a basketball.

honestly, i wouldnt be surprised if Putin invaded tomorrow - it would serve us right....

Sweet baby Jesus protect us from the hyperbolic outrage of internet heavy breathers....

In the end we gonna get what we deserve... Ppl sayin that other teams tanked in past - tell me one game plz where teams tanked to avoid someone ?

We should be disciplined for poor acting.

Hope we get punished, it was a weak act.

Or perhaps the problem is that the cross over of finals can be predetermined (to an extent) and even if teams play to win but lose, the perception will always be that they tanked.

I wonder if the answer may be for the groups crossing over for finals are not announced and the groups are then selected by ballot just before the round of sixteen matches?

It was a bit obvious though as he sat most of his normal starters off for a big part of that game including the end and let exum run point for most of it, he didn't even look like making a sub. So you can see why people would be thinking this even if it's not true.

Resting is fine....I think it was the solo drive uncontested lay ups past 2 Aussies that might of given it away.

As i thought so, u havent found any real example of tanking. I watched that game Spain vs Brazil and it was no where near what boomers did against Ang, dont believe they tanked. Slo - Fin game was totaly irrelevant and did not decide about anything as far as i recall. Boomers sang anthem with tanking allready in mind and tried to act like they give a s.hit about wining the game during the game and even lied after the game but were caught in act in the end by poor acting.

if coming 2nd in the group and facing america wasnt so bad , slovenia wouldnt have been so cut up about it.

fiba , fix your freakin format or stfu.

Maybe the teams should STFU and try and actually beat USA.

The criticism of the structure, or the stupid comment about FIBA's refs, is a distraction.

Unfortunately so is the ongoing commentary about previous teams at previous competitions. FIBA I understand is quite a different political animal now with more power than previously.

Did Australia do everything within its power to win the game? If it named Baynes and Ingles on the scoresheet, then it declared them fit and ready to play. Them not playing was telling.

That it might have backfired is completely irrelevant.

With match fixing now a much heightened issue, FIBA simply had to act.

I thought it wasn't a good look then and I still think it isn't a good look now, but FIBA if they make a bigger deal of this than it has already been will turn a farce into a circus.

Does basketball need this type of hype? Especially down here...

At the time I thought we made a mistake by taking this road, now we have to ride the bumps, shame really as the players on this team deserved better than this.

What we lacked is leadership and confidence, now our courage is also being questioned, how sad!

Maybe FIBA are asking for a please explain so they can see how they can improve the tournament in the future?

Would Lemanis take the fall on this?

Anon 493004 I believe he was referring to Andray Blatche who played for the Philippines despite not having a drop of Filo blood or really stepped in the country other than the 1 week tours the NBA players take down there.

Also a joke that Blatche isn't allowed to play in the Asian champs but FiBA allows him to play in the World Cup. Should be a uniform set of rules.

FIBA are a joke.

I have no problem with them investigating the Boomers and what they appeared to do. However to come our and use the language that they have is blatantly accusatory - what ever happened to being innocent until PROVEN guilty?

Euro teams have been taking for years at various degrees. My advice;

Fix the system. You can't discipline a team that played to the system. Fix the system and fix the problem.

It was all David Andersen's idea ....life time ban.

I accept that punishment ^

It doesnt matter if they rested players, it matters how they played

So basically Australia isn't as experienced as other (European) teams in losing intentionally... so we should be punished for showing what they do for what it is?

I disagree with you Ho, the structure is not a distraction, it is the root cause of the problem. The format rewards gamesmanship. Which sucks, because everyone should be rewarded for winning. FIBA have a problem, but would rather have a scapegoat.

The NBA gets pissed off when the Spurs blatantly rest players.

A team can manage their roster and playing time however they want. In this case, the Angola game got to rest our players and give game time to other players who hadn't received much before. We are a young side which was probably never going to win a medal anyway and we want to develop the team together, it's good to give everyone minutes, even if that means losing. In this scenario, it worked that taking the "risk" of losing against Angola was favourable - that's FIBA's fault for crap formatting.

Well said Anonymous #493027

I agree that blaming the system or using tu quoque arguments to justify tanking is pathetic & it will be interesting to see how BA & team officials defend the allegation.

As to whether they tanked, if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck...

Well maybe they should let Australia and Angola play off again, see what happens then lol shut them all up one way or another.

heard it on radio news, last nite..will get a lotta media..

jawai, who at 142kgs, was gone,was gassed, left on...

Jawai needed the fitness anyway, might shed a few kilos and save his life

I don't have a problem with resting players and losing as a result of not having your best players on the floor . However I think there is a problem if The coaching staff gave specific instructions to not play defense or told players to lose the game after being 15 points up.

Unfortunately, the Boomers were tanking against a pretty horrible Angola team, which made it a lot harder to disguise.

The problem was that the Boomers went up by something like 15 in the 2nd.

They then had to allow Angola back into the game with that massive 3rd/4th quarter run.

The big ? Was why no time outs to stop the scoring runs? I think the biggest was 18pts..

Lemanis did not opt to use a timeout, even though his team blew a double-digit lead and made zero stops while conceding 18 Angola points on just eight possessions. By comparison, Angola had managed only 12 points in the entire second quarter.

Let's stick with the facts and not get moral on all this as nobody, myself included, really likes to see their country lose.

Had Australia already qualified for the R16: Yes
Could Australia finish 1st in Group: No
If Australia won vs Angola, was it more likely to finish 2nd than 3rd: Yes
By losing, was Australia guaranteed to finish 3rd: No
For whoever finished 1st and 3rd, would they avoid USA until SF's: Yes
Was it viewed by all teams as being more favourable to finish 1st or 3rd in Group: Yes
Was Australia's final placing dictated by another game: Yes
Did Australia lose a game vs Angola: Yes
Did Australia rest its best players: Yes
Did Australia deliberately set out to lose the game: Don't know
Did Lithuania beat Slovenia: Yes
Was the Lithuania vs Slovenia game played after Australia vs Angola: Yes
Did Australia finish 3rd: Yes

In summary, the only unknown is whether Australia was in fact under instruction to deliberately lose the game.

The competition format meant that Australia better positioned themselves to avoid the USA until as late in the tournament as possible. their final position still required Lithuania to defeat Slovenia which they ultimately did.

Is anyone investigating how Slovenia only scored 2 final quarter points vs Lithuania in their final game to lose? That's how silly this whole thing is.

The last 3 minutes of that game when it was still in the balance, and even Angola's reaction when they won says everything.

But there really is no solution, except do what the AFL does and put the top 2 teams straight to the semis if they win the first game of the finals.

LC wins.

Agreed, LC wins.

I'm interested to find out exactly how FIBA intend to prove that Australia violated the code of ethics, or if proof is even a requirement for sanction and condemnation (I suspect it won't be). Bring on the thought police!

@LC while those facts are not disputed I can't help but worry because basketball officials have a different eye on the game than others in sports less likely to come down hard on things they see as bringing the game into disrepute.

Reading what we have so far, before the BA reply, our problems are not based on facts alone:

'The on-court behaviour displayed by Australia in that game generated huge disappointment by basketball fans and experts. It is widely suspected that Australia lost that game in order to avoid having to face the reigning world champions USA until the Semi-Finals.'

So they are keying in on the following:

1. On-court behaviour. We will have to answer this on how we acted and what the cameras picked up on, there is no where to hide these days.

2. Huge disappointment. Impacts on the public and so-called experts (media hype if you will) relates to percpetion and the reputation of the sport.

3. Widely suspected we lost on purpose, well even your facts support this as a highly probable scenario, how can we seriously deny it.

Just presenting what I see as their potential claims against us, playing devil's advocate...

I don't see it as fixing the game, rather throwing it but who knows how FIBA will percieve it?

Bear, totally with you on where you are coming from. It was not a great look by Australia and in turn not a great look on FIBA.

Having said that, I would love to know what rules/codes Australia broke for FIBA to take such inflammatory action? There is nothing in their statement that clearly outlines what Australia breached?

In future, at what point does FIBA need to step in and investigate game results when their own system that they put in place advocates such behaviour morally right or not?

LC, almost every sport has a condition of play that expects highest effort, will to win etc etc. Its like a grandfather clause for best behaviour.

The system of play, all faults accepted btw, is an irrelevance in this context. I will be very surprised if there is not a catch all clause.

I thought their release was weird as well, but the telling comment is that about "experts".

Australia did such a piss poor job of hiding it compared to past tank-jobs from other nations, which is why this has caused such a furore, possibly catalysed by the tanking scandals in the AFL locally and the outcry in the USA to curb tanking in the NBA. They made the mistake of ever playing Delly in this one. They should have played guys out of position. They should have reduce their rotation to 6 or 7 guys MAX. That's how you tank.

I mean, geez, to think that we can't even tank properly is pretty embarassing...

The gap in quality between Angola and Australia made it harder to hide as well. If Lithuania tanked against Slovenia had we beaten them, for example, it would have been much easier to conceal because both are quality teams.

Similarly, in the past when Spain threw the game against Brazil a few years back, although they were the superior team, it was not inconceivable that Brazil could beat them as an outside chance on a given day.

And everyone must have been in on it: Lemanis obviously for failing to call timeouts in a winnable game, and the players for intentionally turning the ball over, playing no D, and shooting stupid shots in the second half.

At the end of the day FIBA is responsible for having such a shitty tourney format, and Australia is responsible for taking a dive in such a transparent, pathetic manner. Australia wasted a golden opportunity to try out some weird, interesting lineups that would have served them well going forward through the tourney and into Rio, but instead, they just played a traditional 1-5 lineup and intentionally lost the game that way. We still haven't seen Lemanis go small ball with this team, which is goddamn insane when their whole M.O. is "get out and run".

But maybe it's a good thing in a larger sense: because Australia did such a piss poor job of hiding their intentions, it has brought this whole thing out into the open to the point where you would assume FIBA will do something about this going forward and alter their format.

I hope you're right Mick, but I expect that they would rather fry a minnow (and we are in terms of position in world basketball terms) than look in the mirror.

Someone should put together a video of James Harden's defence so the USA get investigated for tanking!!! :)

Again, I agree with Naph on his take.

I also think resting players is ok, but the obvious intentions of those on court is the issue.

The fact none of the players on court have probably ever tried to do this before is why it was so obvious and they stuffed it up so much.

I suspect they wanted to play the first half at full throtlle as preparation for the next round, but in hind sight, they shouldnt have built up such a big lead as the diffeence between 1st and 2nd half performance was too obvious.

They should have all got in foul trouble which would provide a half legitimate reason for not being able to defend hard at the end.

People saying things like its a disgrace and an embarrassment to our country! What a joke! What we did is so minor to the real problems with FIBA and the whole system. This sort of thing happens EVERY day in EVERY sport and you believe otherwise then you need to wipe the shit out of your eyes and wake up. To say that people are trying to deflect from the situation by bringing up what past teams have done or the structure is nonsensical. Of course these issues are going to be brought up when everyone is pointing the finger like Australia is the 1st team to try to manipulate the system for their own benefit. How is it possible for an NBA player to represent a country that they have no connection to at all and nothing is said or done but resting players and playing ordinary defence is cheating. FIBA needs to investigate FIBA as they are looking more and more like FIFA everyday.

The key for me is, did the team know prior to taking the court that they were going to lose. If the answer is yes then it is a disgrace, and an embarrassment, but moreso it is sad. If they intentionally tried to lose then it is a sad indictment on them and the society that tacitly endorses it. I believe they 'fixed' the result based primarily on their defence in the third quarter. I had no inkling they were intent on losing, I did realise they were resting players, until they, the players, appeared to 'give up, or stopped trying' on the defensive end.

It is monumentally corrupt to be able to 'guarantee' a result. Where does that slippery slide end. My hope is that if it was agreed prior to taking the court, that there were some dissenting voices, maybe Luke, maybe Doc, maybe a couple of the players said 'hey I don't know about this'. My take on it would be that Lemanis probably, by fault of position, made the call.....I just hope it wasn't met with silence by the others involved.

I for one am glad that FIBA is, at the very least, investigating it. One of the great disappointments for me is that whether others do it or not, Australia will be, from this tournament on, known as one of those teams that is willing to be deceitful, corrupt, and unethical.

Andrew Gaze labelled FIBA's investigation into Australia's controversial World Cup loss to Angola a waste of time, but believes if the Boomers are guilty of tanking, "people should be fired".

"It is (a waste of time)," Gaze said on SEN radio.

"It's not dealing with the facts.

"I will be gutted and there should be people fired if they intentionally tanked. I stand by that.

"But I see this as player management, not as tanking.

"And now that we've lost, everyone's wants to go 'ah, the karma bus hit you'.

"If they had won that game against Turkey, we wouldn't even be talking about this."

I'm sorry, but can anyone explain the problem with the system? The two top placed teams from groups C and D are still in the tournament, the team that finished second in D (Slovenia) is playing the top team from group C (USA) and vice versa with Turkey and Lith. That would indicate a pretty fair system to me; you can't have the top ranked teams from each group playing each other until the final four. If the problem is the original seeding and how the groups themselves were composed, sure, but this whole 'the system's broke' stuff didn't seem to have much traction until it looked like we were going to have to face the US earlier than we hoped.

And yeah, playing the US before the final four sucks and it all but guarantees missing out on a medal, but rather than blame FIBA, maybe we should be looking at our team and questioning the pathetic defensive showing against Slovenia, which in hindsight was the only match during the group stage where we were out classed. We win that game, we finish top and play NZ instead of Turkey and we'd still be in the hunt.

As for the tanking, it's going to be impossible to prove anything - if the general attitude was just one of not caring, then you can't say 'tank!', but we did make it pretty bloody obvious that we weren't too concerned with playing too hard against Angola.

FWIW.

I tuned in at about 5 min to go in game - I'd assumed Australia would comfortably win so I didn't bother watching the game from the start.

It took about 2 Australian possessions for it to become completely obvious to me that they were trying to lose. Not just "resting starters" - actively avoiding any attempts to win the game.

The Boomers were only down by a couple of points with light years left on the clock (in basketball terms) yet they were making absolutely no attempt to come back to win the game.

I turned the game off with about 2 minutes left on the clock because my thought was literally "I'm not wasting my time watching a game they are trying to lose".

If it's that obvious to a viewer tuning in with 5 min left in the game, I'd say more knowledgeable people than I who watched from the start could see it too.

Well, it did create one hell of a highlight video for that young bloke (can't recall his name) for Angola, who was having a dunkfest at our expense...

Man, we made him look sooooo goooood!

BA has responded to FIBA about the tanking investigation

The most ironic thing about this for me is that this is the weakest USA team in a decade and we would have actually probably beat them a couple of times out of ten.

should've tanked the oceania champs

but no flex zone

#493178

Don't get carried away. I think everyone has acknowledged tanking has happened before. Thats been a pretty common sentiment.

Anon ^^^^^^^^ To use taxpayers money in part to do something so un-Australian does not sit well with me" - What's your take on how the taxpayer dollars are spent on all sorts of 'un-australian' things every day and have been since forever?

There is nothing wrong with the system.

The best teams make it through to the next round from each division. The best 2 teams will make the final and the best team will win.

We were not good enough regardless of who we played.

Australia should be banned from all international competition for the next 4 years to send a message to all teams.

They are all guilty, players and coaches and if there is no reprimand internally then BA is as corrupt as any of the organisations some on this forum are pointing their fingers at.

I really hope FIBA persist and have the balls to go through with this.

It's completely "un-Australian" to screw with the rules to try and improve your chances!!!

We don't do things like that, especially in our national religion, SPORTS!

That'd be like that country that bowled underarm in cricket to win a game, or that country that used a winged keel to win one of the oldest trophies in the world.

@Mick

Incorrect.

Well, the refs missed that sideline call badly, and got two out of bounds wrong. All those fouls they highlighted aren't unusual calls in international basketball, sadly in some cases.

"Scenario 2 (Australia loses, Slovenia wins)
1. Slovenia 10 pts
2. Lithuania 9 pts
3. Australia 8 pts"

This is wrong. Slovenia would have been 5-0 and clear on top. Lithuania and Australia would have been 3-2. Australia beat Lithuania, and therefore finish second. As you said: "if two or more teams end up with the same amount of wins, only games between those teams are relevant".

This is incorrect. If Slovenia beat Lithuania then Australia finished second, regardless of the result of the game against Angola.

'The most ironic thing about this for me is that this is the weakest USA team in a decade and we would have actually probably beat them a couple of times out of ten.'

You realise that they still have like 4 of the best 20 players on Earth, right?