Cat meet Pigeons this years 36ers team costs more than last years

Why is NZ ranked so low Jonno?

Not even sure where to begin... as much as I admire your optimism and hope your correct regarding the 36ers chances, I disagree with virtually all of your assessments.

hope you're* correct

Think Joey is a good coach but the Sixers have chosen the wrong year to have a budget roster - If it was last year or the year before they probably would make the four with this roster

I'd say its pretty gloomy when you have a head coach who wants out because the club can't give him the funds to get some high price stud imports. And is he staying around for the sack of holding onto a job?

I see overall NZ as similar to last year, hence having them in a similar position.

There roster moves are basically

Jackson in for Johnson, big upgrade
Ibekewe in for Wilkinson, ill call it a break even move, not convinced its an upgrade
Carter in for CJ Bruton, ill call it a breakeven
Wesley in for Corletto, i also reckon breakeven or downgrade,
Bailey in for Frank, a downgrade imo.

So overall i say its a break even, so similar to last season, hence being low on the latter per last year.

I also reckon TeRangi isnt really a sg, so they havnt got a greatly balanced roster.

Could be wrong, but thats my thoughts anyway.

I basically think its similar to last season with Melbourne upgrade, 36ers and Kings downgrading a spot or 2, Wollongong probably upgraded there roster but still have them around 3rd to 5th and everyone else around the same mark as last season.

PlaymakerMo, happy for you to disagree, id love to know why you disagree? how you rank the players and teams??

Would love for a few people to do a similar exercise, and we could come to a cencensous projected rankings of players and teams.

Happy for people to disagree, but would love if people stated there logic as to why??

And to me the Kings have Josh Childress and the 36ers have a SEABL import so therefore the 36ers will suck logic is too simplistic and not accurate, so please go a little deeper.

Another way to look at it

Last year

Perth 8 + 0 = 8, similar level to last season

Adelaide 7 - 1 = 6, step backwards losing Johnson, many argue 2 steps backwards (some would say 3), so will call them a 4.5

Melbourne 6 + 2 = 8, 2 step forwards imo gaining Kickert and 2 improved imports

Wollongong 5 + 1 = 6, small step forward, still not convinced of there sg/sf rotation, but like the additions of Ballinger, Ervin and the new import PG.

Sydney 4 - 1 = 3, step backwards losing Ogilvy, similar to Adelaide not really replacing there star big with anything special, even though they have potentially upgraded the imports, i still say its a step backwards, break even at best.

Cairns 3 + 1 = 4, like the look of there imports, a better balanced team this year imo, could call it 2 step forwards if the imports are good. So will call them a 4.5

New Zealand 2 + 1 = 3, to me break even or small step forward, gave them +1 for Ced Jackson

Townsville 1 + 2 = 3, 2 step forwards, a much better big man rotation with Gladness coming in and i like the addition of Steindl for Norton.

That gives a ranking of

Perth 8
Melbourne 8
Wollongong 6
Adelaide 4.5

Cairns 4.5
Sydney 3
New Zealand 3
Townsville 3

Either way the 36ers should be in that 3rd-6th mix imo. Melbourne and Perth are my locks for the top 2, and not much between the rest.

Hence why i dont think its all doom and gloom.

oops Steindl coming in for Crawford not Norton

"not all of these 'stud' imports will work out or be better than Wilson."

I guarantee every one of them is better than Wilson.

And you are horribly overvaluing the 36ers lineup. Gibson is a run of the mill PG. Yes he is a Boomer but anyone of the import PGs would make it easy if they could. Petrie isn't even a top 5 PF maybe not even top 6 and is worse at C, Creek or Teys at SF - those guys wouldnt even come close to being starters anywhereelse. And a bench of Creek/Teys, Anthony, Crawford and Daly is straight weak

Tai Wesley was pretty decent at Utah State and def not bad at the Southland Sharks. Also watch some of Corey Websters performances at the WC's, he is a pure scorer and in line for a breakout NBL season IMO. TeRangi is a already a better shooter than Creek and will prob surpass him before long.
Last season the Breakers had a new coach and no Jackson and a really old CJ Bruton.
Now they have some fresher legs in Carter and Cedric Jackson is back and a lot of the key pieces from the 3peat team still in Vukona, Abercrombie & Pledger. Add Ibekwe who has a lot of experience as a pro as well as NBA summer league & international experience on top of 4 years at Maryland.

I'm excited and confident in the Breakers signings and season ahead.

I think Wesley was even better than just decent

Avg 15 & 8 his Snr. Year at a big d1 school.

Wilkinson averaged 17 & 7 at the exact same school. Wesley could be the next Conklin which would bea great addition to a backup spot.

Fair enough re Wesley, i probably seriously under rated him, not really shocked as i dont know much about him and didnt look him up, just assumed he would be a average/mid level rookie. Thank you for letting me know, i look forward to checking him out.

If i go back to my original rankings and call him a 7 or 8, that makes NZ 84 or 85, which makes them about the same as the 36ers, or slightly better

I still think it will basically like this top 2 Perth, Melbourne,

Fighting out for 3rd to 6th Adelaide, Cairns, Wollongong, NZ

and bottom 2 but not too far off the pace Sydney and Townsville.

I quite possibly am over hyping the 36ers roster MACDUB, ill have a look at it comparing stats ie Wilson v other import guards, Gibson v other Aussie starting guards, Petrie v other starting bigs

I see Creek and Teys as mid-level players and have ranked them the same as guys like Brad Hill, i dont think i have over hyped them, and to me they are both ahead of TaRangi, i know TaRangi is younger and may get there, but im not convinced he is there yet, another one ill have a look at stats for.

Webster, i am also a fan and would have started him last season, but not convinced he is above that level of the mid-range guys yet, he may also get there, but guys like BJ Anthony have also done well at NZ NBL in the past too, and he isnt above those guys and Creek and Hill have put up good SEABL play too. At best he will be a 7, slightly above them, i dont think he will be elite this season, but hey he could have a break out year ala Goulding.

If Webster has a break out year, TaRangi turns out as good/better than Creek/Teys, Wesley is as good as your suggesting, and Ced Jackson comes back in MVP form, i concede the Breakers will be top 4 and ahead of the 36ers.

But still a few IFs there, so not convinced they will be, but do have them in the same group, ie the 4 teams competing for the 3rd to 6th spots even if all that doesnt happen.

This is all well and good, except basketball isn't played on paper. How teams actually play together will determine how they perform more than the resumes of their players.

Adelaide has excellent continuity this season and excellent chemistry, while their talent is still decent. Defensively they will be better.

Re all the "stud" imports, a number of them are replacing last year's guns, so there isn't a big upgrade in talent.

Daniels replacing Ennis
Childress replacing Young
McRae replacing Goulding
Carson replacing Clarke

That is precisely why I think NZ is being hugely under rated Paul.

Webster, Abercrombie & Vukona are all at the WC's and those 3 along with Pledger & Jackson won consecutive titles together. The Tall Black players will hopefully find some form in Spain and carry that chemistry into the NBL season.

I expect Vickerman to step up this season, Lemanis and the 3peat were big boots to fill last season and although the big drop off was somewhat of a surprise, I wasn't expecting a 4th title last year.

Ebekwe is at least experienced and proven as a pro and together with Wesley, Vukona & Pledger they have versatile front court with very athletic wings in Abercrombie & TeRangi who can also knock down the 3ball at an excellent rate.
Jackson & Carter will not be a pleasant pair for opposing Guards and Corey Webster can certainly get his offensively.
Duane Bailey is the only unproven guy at this level and he certainly won't be getting a ton of minutes or responsibility but is a capable young player.

The game isn't played on paper, as has been pointed out but even so, Some of your numbers need serious adjustment.

Petrie 9? Gibbo 10?

Do you really think Petrie is as good as Redhage, for example?

Gibbo is a good player but with the upgrade of talent at guard this year- Macrae, Carson, Jackson, Wilbekin etc- Gibbo won't even be an above average starting guard in this league.

From where I'm sitting Adelaide look like they will be in the bottom 4 without doubt.

Not sure exactly where I rank them, but certainly way below Perth, United and NZ.

Sorry but 36ers are the only team I would bet on to miss the playoffs. Everyone else is a chance IMO.

It seems Boty isnt too pumped about the 36ers chances this season either.

But mentions Joey isnt phased and loves the challenge , which i love to hear.

I also remember Boty and many others thinking we would miss the playoffs last season so yea you never know what will happen.

I see Mystros point re NZ, will be interested to see how they go, especially if Webster has a break out year, and it will be great to have Ced Jackson back!

I still think the 36ers have one of the better guard rotations. Not saying the best, but in the top 3 or 4 imo, not sure why people are so down on Gibson and Wilson.

I know stats are not everything, but they can sort of show the level of a player, and are useful, the fact both of these guys have played NBL is also an advantage imo.

So we have Gibson and Wilson

Gibsons 13/14 NBL stats 12pts, 5ast, 4 rbd, 48%FG, 38% 3PFG

Wilson 13/14 NBL stats 14pts, 3ast, 4 rbds, 50% FG, 26% 3PFG
Wilson NCAA stats 18pts, 4ast, 3rbd, 46%FG, 37%3PT

Now compare that to Cairns

Gliddon 13/14 NBL 12pts, 3 ast, 2rbd, 50%FG, 37%3PT, i say Gibsons stats are better, plus he is a better defender.

Wilbekin 13/14 NCAA 13pts, 4 ast, 2rbd, 40%FG, 39% 3P, Wilsons NCAA numbers are better and is a proven NBL player,

So i say 36ers have a better back court than cairns,

Melbourne, this is one backcourt i rate above the 36ers, both these imports look to be studs.

Stephen Dennis, was my tip for MVP after seeing his first few blitz/pre season games, and many agreed, prior to getting hurt, if he gets back to that form along with his length, athleticism and all round game, i expect him to be better than Wilson.

Jordan McRae, his summer league and college stats exceed Wilson, he is my pick to be the best sg in the league if he settles into the NBL and the Tigers play with good chemistry they should have the best guard rotation in the league.

New Zealand

Cedric Jackson, MVP when he last played NBL, averaged 14 pts, 7ast, 6rbds and played awesome defense, so he is better than Jamar Wilson

Corey Webster 13/14 NBL 9 pts, 2 ast, 2 rbd, 42%FG, 35% 3pt, i like Webster he is a good player, still with good potential would love for him to have a break out year, if you factor in he played less minutes than Gibbo on average his scoring numbers were probably as good if not better than Gibbo, but Gibbo is a better defender and all round player imo, if Webster has a break out ala Goulding the last couple of years as people are suggesting, he could prove to be better, but until i see it im taking Gibbo.

So its 1-1, so they have a equal back court, could give a slight edge to NZ for having Jackson the best player.

Perth

This is another i call a tie,

Martin V Gibbo - Martins stats dont do his game justice, i believe Martin is a better defender and athlete and like Gibson his team usually wins more than it loses, but Gibson has a more polished offensive game and the fact he was picked for the Boomers a couple of times ahead of Martin is an indication he is atleast as good, if not better,

Beal v Wlson, im a big fan of 'Dolla Beal', has slightly better shooting and scoring numbers than Wilson and his GF MVP gives him an edge imo,

So yea ill call it 1-1 and a tie, Perth with a slight edge for having the same combo as last year, helps with chemistry, you know they work well together.

Sydney

Perry v Wilson

Perrys college numbers are of a similar level to Wilsons in their senior year being 21pts, 4ast, 4 rbd, v Wilsons senior year averaging 19pts, 5 ast, 6 rbd, there career college numbers are also similar, so since Perry hasnt played NBL and college is the closest comparrison we have, i say this is a break even assuming Perry adjusts well to the pro game in the NBL.

Madgen v Gibson - offensively id give an edge to Madgen as far as shooting/scoring goes, but Gibson is a better all round player in terms of play making and defense, albeit playmaking usually isnt Madgens role, Gibson makes boomers teams ahead of Madgen for a reason. Last seasons NBL stats were similar with Madgen averaging 15pts, 2 ast, 3 rbd, v Gibson 12pts, 5ast, 4 rbd, add to the fact Gibson plays way better defense, i give the edge to gibson

So i give the edge here to the 36ers.

Townsville

Markovic - is a great play maker, one of the best Aussie pgs, probably the best offensively in the NBL, im a fan. Last season he averaged 13pts, 5ast, 2 rbds, while shooting better than Wilson who averaged 14pts, 3ast, 4 rbds. Given the shooting ill give the edge to Markovic, but these 2 are of a very similar level.

Norton - a great young talent, lots of potential, im a fan, but at this point in there careers Gibson is clearly better,

Ill give this one to the 36ers also, mostly due to Gibson being significantly better than Norton (or who ever the Crocs start sg, Steindl?)

Wollongong

Carson - he hasnt played NBL, his career college numbers are very similar to Wilson averaging 18pt, 4 ast, 5 rbd v Wilsons 18pts, 4ast, 3rbd, both shooting similar numbers, ill call this one a draw assuming Carson adapts to the NBL well, and he is supposed to be lightning quick and exciting, so i look forward to watching him play.

Ervin - obviously played with the 36ers last season, put up 16 pts, 5 ast, 4 rbd, Gibson put up 12pts, 5ast, 4 rbd, given Gibson had less of a scoring role and played better defense and was more consistent accross the season ill call it a draw. Ervins very best is bettter than Gibson atleast offensively and can win a game on his own, but can he bring it every night, he had a few off nights last season. Ervins lack of size at the sg is a concern for me also.

I also not convinced that having 2 guys less than 6'0 in the back court will work, but will be exciting to watch, i have concerns about this guard rotation defensively, which is why i beleive the 36ers are slightly better in the back court as its a better rounded combo.

So for me Melbourne, Perth and NZ have a better back court than us,

I think we have a clear edge on Townsville, and a slight edge on Sydney, Cairns and Wollongong

Which to me makes us middle of the road, which is how i view the team,

Which yes is a step backwards from last years GF, but not all doom and gloom, and i dont get why everyone is so down on Wilson and Gibson, they are alteast as good as most back courts in the league.

I think people forget how good Wilson is, and are getting too excited about some of the new import guards, who judging by college careers Wilson is atleast on par with them.