Well, sometimes that's what it takes anon,

Maybe that rule should change to age based or years in the league eg allowing aging veterans to be 8,9 & 10 on teams,thus increasing longevity for our players?

Holmes just embarrasses himself every time he tried to argue points.
There are only 80 jobs in the league as it is. Players come and player go just like they do in every league around the world point system or not.

Newley and Ingles are in Adelaide right now. The points cap isn't stopping them from signing their salary expectation is.

Salary caps are unpoliceable as has been proven in nrl and afl. The points cap actually keeps players employed by providing a stable league.

The points cap is perfect now with loyalty brought in.

Teams that are loyal to their players and vice versa (a la Wollongong) are well rewarded with discounts.

I'd like a more veteran based rewarding points system.

I like the points system however I think 70 is too low and it's too easy to be considered a 10 in this league (Shawn Redhage isn't a 10 even before his loyalty discounts).

I think keep the points rating but raise it to 75 and let's see if that improves things

Muzz Buzz,

Salary caps are police-able, both the NRL and AFL have effectively policed these things, in the context that policing is never foolproof, in society or sport. Speeding is police-able, but not every offender is caught.

The problem is that while it could be argued that salary caps are pro-active policing, discovery lags behind the crime, badly, and thus loses some relevance. The NBL hit North Melbournw, but long after championships had been won and done.

Salary caps need diligent and ongoing audit and review. The NBL cannot afford that.

Not picking on your language choice HO but , you know exactly what I mean. No salary cap can be enforced Teams have been and currently still go outside the cap in any different ways. No one could trace anything unless there was a tip off.

A salary cap is far worse limiter than what the points cap is.i suggest get rid if the salary cap and keep the points cap.

Ballinger will be used as an example of the points cap not working. His points rating will not stop him from getting a job but the baggage he comes with will.

The salary cap is somewhat irrelevant in the NBL, particularly with the marquee player rule, because 3-4 clubs can't afford to spend to it.

Until the NBL generates revenue it can distribute to clubs so they spend a similar amount, the only real equalisation tool is the points cap.

Exactly

8 teams of 10 players are fielded every year, for everyone who misses out a different player gets a shot.

Why is the guy who misses out more important than the guy who got a shot.

For guys like Rhys Carter, Ev Bartlett, Barlow and now Ballinger if he doesnt get picked up, its not the points cap fault, it would be due to a. there play or b. them demanding too much $$$/being able to make more $$$ overseas so they do it, and there is nothing wrong with that. But none of it has anything to do with the Points Cap.

I have never heard Holmes or anyone explain any of that.

Who has really missed a job purely because of the points cap??

No one ever seems to be able to name a player though, and im certain that who ever is named it wouldnt take long to identify why they missed out on a gig, and nothing to do with the points cap.

I reckon that basically the same players would be in the NBL without the points cap, you would just have teams like Perth filling out the bench with guys like Rhys Carter, Daniel Dillon instead of Drake U'u and Erik Burdon, which makes them even stronger and makes the league less competitive overall. As its been proven the salary cap cant be policed with the NBLs resources, to me its debatable the AFL police it properly.

The points cap achieves a good level of parity to the point the bottom team can beat the top team and it has happened plenty of times the last 3-4 years, which makes it more exciting then having the bottom team flogged every week because the richer clubs 10th man is a 5th-6th man on a poorer club which is what would happen without the points cap.

The result of that is the poorer clubs get less crowds, less sponsors, ie less money and fold.

The result of that is no NBL.

The result of that is ALL players having to find other jobs and at best play part time basketball, not all would be able to pick up gigs overseas, those who can are mostly already there.

So the points cap if anything is helping the NBL players by helping keep a competitive league alive.

Couldn't agree more, jonno...

Holmes is ready to mouth off about the points cap but always ignores comments about most teams last season not even using the maximum allotment as well as salary restrictions (not even the cap, but more just not being any money to give in that sort of range) being the real reasons that they aren't back here... Barlow himself has blown his weak-as-piss argument that the points cap is keeping him out of the league by signing with Melbourne United (Basketball).

Ballinger at a 7pt rating is the only player anywhere close to being an example of the points cap being used as a scapegoat to get rid of a player, but you look a bit deeper, his age, output from last season (and apparently his salary?) were even bigger factors... The fact that Melbourne United (Basketball) were too lazy to honour their contract with him and work within the limits of the points cap, when every other team seems to manage to, with points to spare, is not a problem with the points cap, it's Melbourne United (Basketball) being greedy and trying to stack their team with as much higher level talent as they can... Just like the Breakers when they cut Trueman and all those other guys...

I'd like a more veteran based rewarding points system.

I like the points system however I think 70 is too low and it's too easy to be considered a 10 in this league (Shawn Redhage isn't a 10 even before his loyalty discounts). I think keep the points rating but raise it to 75 and let's see if that improves things

As said above there are many teams with points to fit Ballinger in at 7, even if its not the Tigers, if he really is willing to take a minimum wage and move around then im sure he will get a spot, and if he doesnt it wont be due to the lack of points available, teams will have chosen other guys over him for basketball reasons or the fact Ballinger is asking too $$$ much when he is no longer seen worth it, neither anything to do with the points.

If Ballinger stays at the Tigers for say MacMillan, then MacMillan misses out, why is he less important than Ballinger to the NBLPA??

As said many times there are 80 jobs, some filled by imports around 65 by Aussies, the same number of guys will be employed next year as the last few seasons.

Tom Daly, trialled for multiple teams, some of which had the points available to sign him all season but chose not to, the points cap didnt keep him out of the league, even if they were the same i dare say Joey would have preferred Teys. Not a knock on Daly, i am a fan, would love to see him on a roster. And even if Daly gets in then say Teys misses out, again why is Daly more important than Teys to the NBLPA??

The issue is there are only around 65 Aussie jobs, with probably around 80ish (or more) guys good enough or around the mark to make a roster, so someone is always going to miss out, with or without the points cap.

The NBL is working on rectifying the lack of jobs by getting expansion teams going, the NBL PA should be helping with this, as if say 4 new teams come in guys like Daly will get gigs, and if they dont it certainly wont be because of the points cap.

Instead of wasting resources complaining, how about putting your resources into helping the NBL get more teams going?? creating more jobs?? if its so easy to run a team and league why dont they do it???

A lack of points cap will kill the league not help it, meaning even less players get jobs, as the league may not exist.

Amen Isaac

I'd like the numbers doubled to 20 max and 140 per team. Then you have enough graduations to actually do a proper analysis and points allocation.

At the moment each "1" player point is really too large a step in value. Too many players end up on the same value, and when that single range group is looked at there is too much clear variation in game impact between the ( say) high 7 and low & players. splitting that same group up into 15, 14 and 13 point players within a 20 point range makes it less debatable.

JMHO

Also who is it ultimately that says youare a 1 you are 3, 4 ,5 or whatever it is. Why should someone have that power.

That only stopped Daly being signed by the 36ers, other teams could have signed him, teams had more than 3 points available to them going into the season so could have grabbed him, but chose not to. Not the points caps fault.

Yes Ballinger is better, but i doubt he would take the 4th big role anyway?? plus the difference between MacMillan and Ballinger in that role playing less than 10 mins a game, isnt really a issue. im pretty sure he will be in the NBL somewhere, it just wont be in Melbourne, if he cant get a gig anywhere i dare say its for reasons beyond the points cap. Preventing teams from totally being stacked and having a guy as good as Ballinger as there 9th/10th man is sort of the point of the points cap, it forces him to move and help a weaker team that needs him more and makes the lesser team stronger.

Is the points cap stopping Ballinger or Daly or anyone really signing with the 36ers or basically any other team right now, no. There are other reasons as to why the 36ers (or any other team) may chose not to sign them and sign others instead.

If Ballinger is willing to play cheap enough, play the role the team wants, with a good attitude, continue to work hard, continue to improve his weaknesses, he will likely get a gig, he just wont be able to demand big $$ anymore. Again nothing to do with the points cap.

Yea i do like the suggestion of doubling the points cap, and having a maximum of 20 per player to make it a better indication of the players value, many are a little too high at the moment.

To be honest, i think the PA are wasting there time complaining. If they stay patient, let things go as they are for another season, then we will likely have 4 new teams, ie plenty of new jobs and i think pretty much anyone who is of NBL level will get a gig, if anything it will become 2 easy for a decent Aussie to get a gig and issue of finding a NBL level player for the 9th and 10th spot might become difficult. Hence why i think they should allow 3-4 imports once the expansion happens to keep the standard up.

Once that happens then the points cap wont be an issue, anyone who is good enough will be in the NBL, if they are not well it isnt the points caps fault, there will be plenty of points to go around.

As Isaac said keep working on your, game attitude, etc and put your best foot forward instead of wasting your time complaining and also the scarce resources of the NBL and the NBLPA. I hope the NBL dont put too much into any of this points cap issue, just tell the players it is what it is, if you dont like it get another job.

To those blaming the points cap, for not being in the league, get on the court work on your 3 pt shot, defense, basketball iq and decision making, fitness, athleticism and have a great attitude and work ethic. There are very few who possess all of those qualities or even half of them at a NBL standard not playing NBL. The ones who have those things and are not playing NBL are in Europe/NBA. Guys who play D, good IQ, work hard and can shoot the ball tend to stick in the league as long as they want, ie Peter Crawford.

Go through the names of guys who were not in the league and blame the points cap and compare them to guys who played NBL in the role they would have likely been going for. Im pretty sure in most cases you will see the guys who got the gigs were just better, or at best it was break even and the coach just picked the other guy. I doubt there are any standouts who are clearly better than a NBL back up at there position, who are claiming the points cap keeps them out of the league.

aw, adrien sturt will get an offer then, after expansion. he's a 9

342 - Teys was rated a 1, Daly was a 3.

As others have pointed out: the player points cap didn't keep Daly out of the league as other teams had the cap room to sign him. For the most part the points cap distributes talent, rather than restricting it

You could argue that the PPC is a barrier to trade as players are often forced to relocate more than they otherwise would in order to distribute the league-wide talent, but it rarely does it actually prevent trade (which is Holmes's claim).

Barlow's issue has been that he would have had to accept below his market-value in wages to play in the NBL, which is almost a completely separate issue from the PPC.

I'm sure Holmes does a lot of valuable work for the NBLPA, but this is a waste of everyone's time.

Holmes is only representing his body of players and I imagine they detest the points cap. I know my brother doesn't like it and we've briefly argued the points.

From what I heard, the Tigers/United did mention to Ballinger that his points value didn't help his cause or similar. Insane for them to raise it but then they might be one of the teams not too keen to keep that cap.

Jonno the Daly and Teys issue was that they were both 3's... 1/3 of the total value of points despite limited games and minutes over a season... The points are too close in value and need a better spread with a higher overall team value. Then it might work.

Teys was a 1 last year, and I think he still is because Adelaide were smart enough to put an option in his contract.

Yeah, there was discussion of the points cap pretty much forcing Teys to stay with Adelaide because of his option keeping him at 1pt as other teams wouldn't be interested him at a 5...

I think that would be fairly untrue, comparing him to other players ranked as a 5... But it (as well as the Jervis rating) brings into discussion at least if there should be a max increase that is applicable to players... if there was a 3/4pt maximum increase that a player could go up, it could negate a few of these concerns... Players who come into the league and just happen to fall into a good situation don't get blown up ratings and also teams that benefit from picking a rough gem, like Perth, don't get shafted when they actually have a good season (as much as it pains me to suggest ways that Perth could benefit even MORE from points discounts!)

Yea i do agree, that points shouldnt be able to jump up so much in one season, id have a maximum jump of 2 points per season, would mean players like Teys and Jervis would be 3s this season 5s the next, gives them a couple of cheap years to prove themselves to the league before jumping up to the 5+ range.

I think they should be taken over two years with the average used. So for Teys it would be a 3 and for Jervis a 4 in their second year. As it is, neither has really been impacted on.