supporter
Years ago
my thoughts are that in NSW junior rep leagues, refs are really concentrating on hand fouls, but are letting "heavy" body work go un whistled.
What are your thoughts?
That is what is wrong with targeting areas. The same thing happens with policing. How ridiculous when you see a sign that says "police now targeting seatbelt'. Would prefer 'Police now present and targeting enforcing all rules of law, road or otherwise...….' Wouldn't work if the Dr said in surgery, 'I think I might concentrate on suturing better today but whatever on the cutting, I'll get back to working on that next time !!
JUST UMPIRE TO THE RULES OF THE GAME AND EVERYONE CAN FINALLY GET ON TO THE SAME PAGE……….
SSB
Years ago
Simplistic grandiose statements such as "umpire to the rules of the game" don't reflect upon the skills of reffing. If they are concentrating on a particular area, that does indicate an effort to get everyone on the same page.
Hand checking can often gradually increase though out a league to the point where it is having a detrimental effect on the game. Thus a crack down can be a good way to address this.
On the other hand "heavy bodywork" is not a good starting point when looking at the criteria for calling a foul. Often their can be contact entirely created by the offensive player that is: 1/ not a charge 2/ against perfectly legal defence....the correct call is play on. Unfortunately a lot of in-experience ref's will 'call something' because that is what the parents tend to scream from the side lines.
"Hand checking can often gradually increase though out a league "
Only if refs don't do their jobs correctly and call them as the fouls that they are.
NSW is not singular in this, same occurs all over in other states too. Points of emphasis exist and appear to be a way to identify a problem area for attention, or possibly just to refresh the officials ideas on focusing towards a common goal.
I for one would like to see more consistency as a focus point, but I am aware that we have a long way to go before we can get there.
We are still playing catch up for years of neglect and pandering to the idea that contact is okay and 'that's the way the game is played overseas now'.
So, we are no different to other countries, now applying points of emphasis to try to account for a lack of accountability built up over a period where it was okay to have players physically monster their opponents and get away with it.
It is something we all have to get accustomed to, we must be patient and see this evolve, hopefully!
supporter
Years ago
hand checks should be called, but the body contact, i believe in Junior basketball is very important and should have a focus on it as well as hand checks.
Keyboard Needs Grammar
Years ago
Half the time on body contact its the offense force it to draw the foul and boom the defense are left both arms high and think "WTF"
SSB
Years ago
to the first Anon:
"Only if refs don't do their jobs correctly and call them as the fouls that they are."
Black and white statements do not serve any useful purpose when discussing how to ref basketball.
to the second Anon:
Contact is ok and it is part of the sport. It is the ref's job to call the illegal contact.
If a player wants to go bum up head down as hard as he can, he is going to bump into good defense and may go sprawling on the floor and not get a foul. Why should the defense be penalised for ordinary offence skills?
Backing up my original point, contact is not necessarily a foul.
kings1
Years ago
it is the offensive guy getting too much leniency a lot of the time
SSB
Years ago
I don't think so. The deterrent for the offensive player is the turnover. Plus I think that there enough charges called already.
I don't believe common sense has been applied to some comments on this thread. No one is suggesting that if the foul is there it shouldn't be called, or that offensive players sometimes force the contact, just as defensive players flop occasionally.
A basketball official's job is not an easy one, we can all agree on this, they have to contend with close quarters and sprays from coaches and spectators in a sometimes hostile environment while trying to control a quick, high tempo game with 10 moving players and focus on the ball as well.
No one should suggest they can't make errors, although I admit I am yet to speak with many who do share that opinion openly.
I think all anyone really wants is two things, some more consistency and some more common sense. Unfortunately many times this only comes with experience, so patients is needed first.
SSB
Years ago
I am assuming that you were suggesting that it was me not using commonsense??
I agree with your overall sentiment, except on mantra that everyone seems to use. 'consistency'
This term and others like 'call it the same both ends' is just catch phrase.
Every play / player and the angle you see it from is different. Call on the merits of the individual play, what happened 30 seconds ago or in a previous game is not relevant.
Not you specifically @SSB, however the point on consistency as per my previous post, well I would not consider it a catch phrase either.
Yes, every game, every situation and call needs to be taken on merit to a point, but the theory on consistency and common sense applies in circumstances of general understanding in how a game flows, the sense of the game, the situation and what to do for the sake of the game and the future of the game.
Officials are taught well, IMO they are generally coached to allow players to decide games in crucial late periods, they are taught to be tolerant of criticism to a point and they are encouraged to make a decision then stick to their decision with confidence.
All good in theory and when applied with consistency and common sense usually works very well, throw in experience that allows officials to communicate without arrogance and deal with personalities in stead of clash with them and you have a winner.
What I am saying is more about how hard these things are to teach and develop in young coaches with less worldly experience in particular and how the rest of us (non officials) need to understand it takes time to see these traits come through the ranks.
Sometimes we don't see it, not everyone is actually cut out to be an official, but the signs these days are that the controlling body is at least having a go at rectifying the previous years of neglect, for want of a better word.
Titfortat
Years ago
The points of emphasis came about from the nbl through discussions with the coaches on areas they believed the league could be called better. This showed the teams that the league was willing to listen on ways to improve the game, but could also be a poisoned chalice.
The issue that came from this was they then tried to instill those same points to the leagues below, which didn't necessarily work as the game is played differently and also not called the same way. Officials in lower leagues also don't have the ability to call the games that way which also causes issues.
Another issue is similar to junior players and coaches. They see people in higher leagues do things in games or run specific plays and think that'd be awesome to incorporate into my game.
Junior officials are no different, they see officials in higher leagues call the game a particular way and try and do the same in junior leagues. This clearly won't work and is where the education is breaking down. They are being allowed to get away from the basics of calling the game, which contributes to players getting into bad habits and so on.
Another issue with education etc is the chest beating that goes on between the states, at all levels. Officials in foreign territory get treated poorly and are not educated the same as home grown officials. This is detrimental to the consistency around the country as the powers to be are only there to promote their own, instead of trying to get everybody on the same page.
I have been involved at all levels of basketball and hope that for the sake of the game everyone can start to work together better than they do now.
kings1
Years ago
wouldnt it be an advantage to give the info to the clubs that the refs are being given/coached on and try to get all parties on the same page??
PS: create a section on the web page for this type on info??
I have been involved in a number of junior and state leagues and the PoE are always circulated around the coaches/clubs.
Especially at junior level but even the lower senior leagues it's important to remember these refs are developing like the players. Do your U12s run the offense correctly every time?
There is a tendency, like in anything, to get tunnel vision over a season or two eg; "we are focusing on illegal hands ". They start to get called, then the coaches get the players to use their body to gain an advantage and at times the refs will be too focused on the hands and miss the body calls.
Being ready for the dynamic nature of teams tactics over a season is something that comes from experience. Like being consistent throughout a game and season.
Not defending poor performances but I think they come about due to the poor development system rather than individual refs attitudes for the most part.
^Agree anon, that is a nice post. As a coach all I want from officials are the five "C's"
Courtesy
Continuity
Consistency
Common Sense
Communication
I will give it, so I would like to get it.
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