Anonymous
Years ago
Interesting petition started by a current Big V coach in an attmept to highlight some issues with the new direction/points of emphasis and lack of communication from some Refs.
http://www.change.org/petitions/basketball-victoria-big-v-competition-vjbl-competition-start-holding-the-referees-accountable-for-their-lack-of-knowledge-communication-and-understanding-of-the-game
There is only one way to do that and that is throw extra resources at the refereeing program. That money realistically can only come from increasing the entry fees. And the clubs dont want to put their hand in their pockets any more than Basketball Victoria do or the VBRA. If the coach who started the petition isnt sanctioned there is a problem.
Anon #275.... You would expect he isnt going to get many 50/50 calls. Youd also expect that he would want to communicate in the correct manner to them or he may find the showers early
CABL NEDIA REP
Years ago
At 7275 how is the refs screwing over the coach exactly fair on the 10 plus people ON THE COURT PLAYING THE GAME?
This mentality is the issue the coach probably has sadly its a reality that Refs can call a game a certain way based on how they feel about a coach - opinion is not fact!
Pretty dumb thing to do and way to handle this, id expect the League, his club or at very least VBRA take action against him for doing it.
Bear
Years ago
^anon, have you read the petition? While I don't agree with the method, where is there an action or comment that warrants action against him?
Bear are you serious? What would happen if an AFL coach did this?
So the refs will screw the coach because they don't like something he has done, rather than call the game impartially?
Seems like the coach might have a point!
Bear
Years ago
Big difference between a semi-pro league and the AFL, however I understand your point, like I said I don't agree with his method but specifically speaking he is referring to points of improvement that he believes officials are not accountable for.
The coach is obviously unaware or not privy to what the officials are accountable for, once again, I am not a fan of his method, show me where he can be actioned against please?
Id suggest public criticism of referees for starters
Bear, i didn't realize ethics were different between Professional and Semi Professional sport.
Public criticism is public criticism, at SEABL level public criticism of a far less severe nature has drawn reports and fines, ask Geelong.
Id imagine his Club should be hauling him over the coals for bring them into disrepute through his actions. If i was his Coaching Director id sack him.
Happy Days
Years ago
A petition...how about picking up the phone and going out for a coffee and a chat.Amazing what can be achieved in a face to face conversation.
I can't think of a worse way to handle it to be honest.
Agree Happy days, pick up the phone and organize a meeting and solve this behind closed doors and keep your dirty laundry out of the public eye.
Bear
Years ago
Yes, ethics are questionable, as is the approach and I agree his Association should sit him down and sort it out one way or another.
Not sure what would drive a person to go down such a drastic path, so there is the issue I believe.
We can criticise him, perhaps do him for bringing the game into disrepute, because that can be used for anything, but my question here is this...
Are we looking to smack him and keep treating the symptoms or do we care enough to drill down to the cause, then look at what improvements can in fact be made, if any?
Who decided there actually is a problem to begin with?
Where has the due diligence been done to establish all the facts from a decent sample size from all sides involved to support the accusations?
What has he done to explore and back up the accuracy of his allegations that the refs don't care, don't get trained and aren't held accountable? Which is clearly a wrong assumption.
I'd suggest some private calm friendly dialogue needed to transpire between a number of parties to talk this through first.
What a clown whoever it is. Try teaching your players to play proper defence. For too long there have been too many hacks and reachers on defence that are finally getting their comeuppons.
Big V Coach.
Years ago
How ironic - you people who criticise posts made under "anonymous" and yet when a guy has the balls to come out and speak his mind in a open and constructive way. You want to destroy him.
You Hypocrites amuse me!!!
I has it a guess that the "hypocrites" who have posted on this subject are some of the arrogant referees that a lot of coaches complain about.
Brian Vaughns is merely making a point - ie. you cannot talk to referees these days. And this is mostly comes from the lack of the direction they get from above.
The POE arguments only cloud Brian's points - THE REAL MESSAGE IS coaches are very frustrated that an element of referees treat them with CONTEMPT.
The more you try to communicate - the more warnings and T's you get. I have coached for 25+ years and I've never know the relationship of coaches and referees to be so poor.
It is time the referee supervisor began to recognise that coaches are not robots and do have emotions. The best and only way to manage them is to talk and be civil.
It is true coaches make mistakes, and players make mistakes and refs are not immune from making mistakes. Coaches and Players get that and can tolerate that.
But if a player or coach speaks up or was to treat a ref the same of the refs behave towards players/coaches - we either cop soft fouls, poor calls or get T's up.
There is also a school of refs who are vindictive and deliberately go out of their way to bait coaches/players whom they know to have reputations for losing their cool.
I have many friends whom ref in Big V and off the record they will openly tell me of examples of where refs discuss whom they like or dislike. These people hate this but feel they can't speak up for fear of reprisals.
I have had score bench officials say to me they have overhead refs prior to a game or early in a game say - "I know this coach well and as soon as he opens his mouth or puts his hands in the air bang a T on him".
Refs carry no accountability. To suggest we go and have a coffee/chat - with who? Don't suggest the refs coach - he is a big part of the problem.
I have had no joy in the past in my dealings with him. You get lip service at best. I'd even suggest I've copped the rough end of the pineapple most likely because I've dared to criticise the refereeing behaviour.
You can't always discuss matters in the after match with refs - because most will run away after the game if they know they have had a bad game.
CAVEAT - now before all referees get upset and start defending your mates let me be clear. I am not saying ALL REFS are bad - there are plenty of good ones. And most of these refs know how to talk and communciate with Players and Coaches - they have our respect, even when we don't like their decisions.
Unfortunately for the GOOD REFS - you have a rogue group who UNDO your good work. Part of the problem is the BIG V have got too hungry in adding teams beyond the refereeing capacity. But the major part of the problem is a REFEREE'S INABILITY TO COMMUNICATE WITH PLAYERS AND COACHES.
I congratulate Brian Vaughns on having the courage to speak up - you have my support and I can confidently say the support of the majority of coaches in the BIG V.
Unfortunately, most of these coaches are reluctant to go public because they fear repercussions - either from vindictive referees or the "threats" that you see in the posts above.
If Brian is sanctioned or punished in any way - I would suggest that would be the catalyst for the coaching fraternity to get together to discuss how we as a group want to deal with matters relating to this topic.
At the moment we are being treated with contempt and seen as trouble makers - but nothing changes.
It is true we don't have a game without refs. Equally it is true Coaches and Players have a place in the game as well.
This US and THEM attitude must stop for the good of the game.
Maybe, us coaches collectively need to organise ourselves to demonstrate we too should have a voice and we are not going to accept this behaviour any more.
The BIG V CEO's email was not the right way to address this matter. Coaches have had a gut full - and we now must decide if we are going to cop what's going on or tackle the issues as a collective group.
Brian Vaughns is on the money - let's not let him be hung out to dry. Cultural change is necessary and will not happen if we don't support him.
FINALLY - to the GOOD REFS out there - please accept that you are appreciated and respected by players and coaches. You are good for the game.
Big V Coach.
Years ago
Coached tonight - refs spoke to me before the game about POE's and showing emotion. They basically said "you know it is we have been given no choice to T players/coaches for any display of emotion".
I responded by saying "I have empathy for you because you cannot win when you have your hands tied. I believe the pressure you are getting is because of the poor direction you get from above".
The refs just smiled and shrugged their shoulders as if to say "sorry but what can we do".
The game proceeded with many contentious calls, but to the credit of the referees they spoke to players and coaches in a civil manner despite emotions being expressed.
I can only hope these two refs don't get sacked for showing courtesy and common sense.
Score Bench Official
Years ago
Tonight I officiated at a SEABL game. Prior to the game starting, the refereess were openly discussing with the bench about the rubbish going on with Referees and Coaches in the BIG V.
It was very obvious the SEABL referees were in total disagreement with what was happening with how the BIG V referees were directed to official a game.
Having read the above posts, I am starting to wonder why this has been allowed to happen.
The BIG V employees need to get the clubs together and listen to their concerns - after all it is the clubs who OWN the competition.
The referees are there to uphold the laws of the game, but they are not there to disrespect the other people associated with the game.
I can a theme developing when we may see the day where coaches start to act as a group and rebel against the league until they get a fair hearing at the POE table.
If this was to eventuate, the BIG V will have a real problem on their hands.
Score bench official, your story might have been believable except for one small mistake, all Victorian officials have been instructed to call the came the same way by the VBRA, BigV have not made a different separate directive.
The officials who do SEABL do BigV too, there is no us and them.
Nice try though.
Score Bench Official
Years ago
Really anonymous? So I didn't hear what I heard last night? And you are trying to convince me that all referees are on the same page and have a united front.
Next you will be trying to say I'm lying - whoops I think you are. I'm hurt.
So the referees are all good, world hunger doesn't exist and Elvis hasn't left the building.
You obviously are one of those referees that can't except their is a problem.
Well you keep your head buried in the sand - let us know if you find Elvis. The rest of us will continue to operate in the real world.
Score Bench grow up you troll.
You have a very similar posting style to another big mouth hater here.
Too many tinfoil hat wearers in BigV, ironically SEABL get the same refs and that league gets called even more tightly because there's 3 officials yet they don't bleat and carry on, they simply adjust.
Id say there's a loud few from the lower divs who are unable to coach and can't see the bigger picture.
Score Bench Official
Years ago
I am only repeating what I heard - is that a sin?
Sorry you have to revert to abuse anonymous.
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