Should be a matter of being set before the offensive player leaves their feet.

That's the rule for close to the bucket stuff anyway. Don't know about the other stuff though.

Pendulum has swung way too far. In most pro and amateur leagues you can basically slide over at the last tenth of a second and take a charge. Shouldn't be the way the game is called but that's what we have now.

IMO you shouldn't be allowed to slide in at the last half second. There should be an element of established positioning of the defensive player and the offensive guy being out of control for an offensive foul.

I want to see more no calls as well. Defensive player with good positioning + offensive player who makes some contact but is in control enough to apply the brakes at the last second and not send the defender to the floor (naturally, not with embelishment). No call.

Establishing position isn't about "how long" you've been there, based on my understanding.

If you were to look at a video of a charge/blocking call frame-by-frame, I think the decision would be as simple as: is or isn't the defensive player in a legal guarding position at that point in time?

timing to take a charge.

as I understand it - But feel free to flame if you have or had a referee's coaching qualification-

THEORETICALLY the defensive player needs to give the offensive player a "chance" to avoid the contact to the centre of the defensive players chest/body ( NOTE the defence is allowed to turn within their "cylinder" to protect themselves AFTER establishing their position - IF the illegal contact is looking to be dangerous to them)

so

if the offensive player has ALREADY left their feet (* eg tommahawk dunk or passing in the air) and is thus committed to move along a path that is both IN THE AIR - AND IS CURRENTLY clear.

In thAT SITUATION - if the defensive player THEN moves into that path AND contact occurs BEFORE the offensive player lands with BOTH FEET - then that is a block by the defence ( even if the defensive player as been there in a stationary legal position for any period of time - PS OZ Olympic committee should sign up the offensive player for the high and long jumps ASAP)

You have to have legal defensive position adjacent to the offensive player before they arrive at that spot (ie not arriving at same time).

If the offensive player has elevated you must have established position before they elevate.

If you already have legal guarding position, you are allowed to move sideways or backwards to maintain that position, but again you must get to the new spot first.

Internationally the charge/block is called very well, with the benefit of the doubt going to the offence.

In Australia we have never really had it right, and despite Mal Cooper constantly telling NBL refs if there is any doubt it is a block, our refs continue to call it in favour of the defence.

It is something that needs to be addressed from grassroots level.

Hmm

Quote - "You have to have legal defensive position adjacent to the offensive player before they arrive at that spot (ie not arriving at same time)."

other than "adjacent" - which I don't quite remember being defined in the rules this is essentially correct -

you do need to have gained a legal defensive position at SOME TIME PRIOR to contact - even if it is not maintained all the way until contact - ( eg jumping completely vertical within your "cylinder" for a block - you will have both feet off the floor - but the O cannot/should not just jump into you to get bailed out)

- but some may think that the above quote COULD mean that if the defensive player is shuffling sideways across the path of the non-elevated ( ie running and dribbling) offensive player, and has only 1 or neither of their two feet on the ground when contact to the centre of the defences chest is made by the offensive player, (with enough force to give the offensive player an illegal advantage) - then it is a block as they are "arriving at the same time" - this is wrong

- when in fact in that situation the D's chest and the O's elbow/shoulder/hip etc did not arrive at the same time - as the contact is into the centre of the D's chest - the chest got there first - IF the defence is moving sideways, vertically up or away.

OF COURSE if the defence is going forward into the offensive player - directly along or diagonally FORWARD across the line the offence is travelling along THEN it is a block as they are "arriving at the same time".

Once the 3 main points are fully understood by a ref-

1. D must FIRST establish legal position where O can reasonably see them prior -

2. D must THEN be there first ( ie not moving forward) with or without legal guarding posture -

3. There must be illegal contact to the centre of the D's chest by any part of the O's body ( or where it would have been if the D did not protect themselves

- its actually a lot easier to see and call than explain

"if the defensive player is shuffling sideways across the path of the non-elevated ( ie running and dribbling) offensive player, and has only 1 or neither of their two feet on the ground when contact to the centre of the defences chest is made by the offensive player, (with enough force to give the offensive player an illegal advantage) - then it is a block as they are "arriving at the same time" - this is wrong"

I think if they are moving "across the path" it is a block. If they were guarding that player in a legal position and were moving to maintain that then it could be a charge.

This quote from the rules explains both having to have legal position before contact and the need to be adjacent:

"A defensive player has established an initial legal guarding position when:
 He is facing his opponent, and
 He has both feet on the floor."

Paul, yes you must have both feet on the floor when you establish defensive position however if you then slide sideways (not forwards) or backwards and have only one foot grounded while sliding then provided the contact is on the torso then it's a charge

Also the offensive player with the ball must expect to be guarded at all times so there is no time limit to bring at the spot first

Agree, that's why I pointed out the difference between someone guarding the ball and someone moving "across the path" of the ballhandler - sometimes I wonder how many of our refs take this into account.

The other beef I have with the way we call charges is how many are called when the offensive player doesnt take the defender's ground, the defender just choosing to fall over at contact.

'Very Old' and 'Agree But', that is exactly how I interpret the rules as well, but not very often do I see the rule applied this way. I've had quite a few calls against me when offensive players have just dropped their shoulders and slammed straight into the centre of my chest with their shoulder -either trying to bully their way through or draw a foul- and been called for blocking because I'm moving backwards/diagonally backwards guarding them.

I'm not asking for a charge, I'd be quite content with the no-call and having, for lack of a better term, having my defensive rights being upheld.

I think commentators do a poor job of explaining the rule and have helped create a lot of confusion amongst players (and maybe some refs too).