Melton obviously. #bredlife

Southern Peninsula women especially if they get an import.

LMAO HO!
I miss all the chest beating they did before they won a single game. Then they stoped - focused on playin- and got a ship

Pakenham have the best roster in the D2M league by a long way.

Give them the trophey now.

Happy Days i reckon you will be HAP HAP HAPPY!!! As i reckon they are getting an import from the California area (narrows it down doesnt it hahaha)

I agree with Anonymous. On paper Sunbury have the best team in D1M and would be title favourites. I think for the first time in D1M since they went to the conferences Terril could be tougher with loaded Sunbury, Mildura and Geelong teams.

At least coming from California she'll enjoy the weather and the beaches.Are they going to replace Darren in the COO's role or leave it to Gerard to run the ship.

The last email (or might have been a media release?) that was sent out to members stated the position will be reviewed and possibly filled by the end of the year i believe. GH will still be Basketball Ops and DOC (junior/senior), LA is Sponsorship and Marketing and COO decisions will be referred to the Board for the time being, well that was my take on what i read anyway.

Their home court has been resurfaced with a paper finish.

Darren wanted to get back to the corporate world as you dont want to stay out of the loop for too long. Hes laid a good foundation for them but they need to continue to build on that. Is the import from St Marys?

Yeah i actually don't know where exactly she is from sorry, just what i am hearing Happy.

#bredlife = #jokelife

Perform on the court first.

I think Warrandyte women will be more than competitive in SCW. They have a good mix across the board and if Sthef Thomas returns they will be legit. Will be interesting to see how the change in coaching works for them.

D1M is always wide open but based on last years results you would automatically presume that Latrobe will contend, Mildura are ALWAYS going to be a contender as will Geelong. Chelsea have made some good signings and may be quiet handy also.

D1W was 1 of the toughest competitions in the league last year and it should be expected to be similar this year. For those teams coming up from D2, only Sth Pen have made any significant announcements as to signings etc. Teams may simply be keeping it quiet also though. Latrobe may struggle as they have only had 9 in their full squad last year, have lost the Pearce sisters and at least 2 other role players. Based on knowledge that has been shared publicly I would expect Geelong, Whittlesea, Mildura, Camberwell, Cragieburn and Sth Pen to be contenders.

SCM

Waverley
Corio
Bulleen
Ringwood

Diamond Valley
Hume
Eltham
Whittlesea
McKinnon
Melbourne
Hawthorn
Werribee
Sherbrooke


Div 1 Men West

Geelong
Mildura
Sunbury
Melton

Warrnambool
Craigeburn
Altona


Div 1 Men East

Chelsea
Latrobe
Melb Uni
Blackburn

Sth Peninsula
Camberwell
Warrandyte


Div 2 Men

Pakenham
Western Port
Keysborough
Wodonga

Keilor
Mornington
Casey
Shepparton
Coburg
Maccabi
Oakleigh

I reckon the Shepp boys will be alright this year. I know there was a lot of hype around them last year (I think most of it was actually created by people outside of the team that had zero idea what was going on).

They obviously have the experience of having played BigV which helps but also have a few very talented local players re-joining the squad after a few years away with Uni.

I dont know if they will make finals or not as there are some solid teams running around in D2. Westernport may self combust and Wodonga is a fairly unknown.

Melton = #InBredLife

lots of personalities to deal with in that sth pen team if they get an import haha, good luck with that

Lots of personalities to deal with if they get an import...... So the import has multiple personalities? Weird, hopefully one of those personalities can hoop! Haters gonna hate

When you say Big V, we are only interested in Championship aren't we? Talking about Division 1 & 2 is like predicting domestic. I can't believe they even waste time doing stats at those levels. Let's not have another year hearing about the good players in Division 2. Mediocrity shouldn't be celebrated.

Cheer up snowy, life's not that bad mate. Spare a thought for us try hards, not all of us have played in the NBA like yourself.

Smile once in a while Snowy.

Obviously people do care about D1 and D2 otherwise they wouldn't talk about it right?

Doesn't everyone have a personality? So wouldn't a large part of coaching be managing all of those personalities?

@Melbourne Boy, agree on your top 4 for SCM, but hardly anyone else in the bottom part of the championship division really to the standard of those 4 is there?

Waverley
Corio Bay
Bulleen
Ringwood

These 4 teams, Associations, are almost at SEABL level IMO and do a great job of recruiting, development and coaching...

When will we see some form of promotion and relagation between Championship Divisions of this standard and the SEABL, I wonder?

Oh, and it's Corio Bay, not Corio mate (Corio is actually a suburb no where near the home court), like saying Diamond in stead of Diamond Valley!

Is Lester naturalised now?

jeez Snowy, imagine if there was only a championship level, where would all the other players go, and why shouldn't they do stats on the other divisions, they pay just the same, and have followers just the same, plus some choose to play in a team for more reasons than than the level the team is in. Its like saying if you cant play professional take up chess, not everyone can be Michael jordans, and even he admits he's not perfect.

Chook, personalities are easy to deal with its the egos that go with some that make it hard haha,

Thats not what was said but. "lots of personalities to deal with in that sth pen team if they get an import haha, good luck with that"

I do agree, it is the Egos usually more so than personalities that are challenging to work with, BUT, it is still part of coaching. Good coaches need to be able to manage egos. Phil Jackson won bulk rings because he could manage egos.

I agree with Snowy. Too much focus is put on these 'lesser' leagues. Senior basketball in this country in a horrible state and one reason is that guys looking for kudos can now get it at shit levels. There is no longer the desire to play at the highest level and aspire to something and too many are settling for shitball. Those that opt to play in grades lower than their ability are a) pea hearts b) lazy c) stupid or d) all of the above. If you are just going to sit a club with no aspirations of higher things, make way for someone else and go and play domestic with your streetball mates

Define a 'Horrible State' Dale.

Dale sounds like he got cut from some Div 2 tryouts

I don't think theres a whole lot wrong with the structure in general:

NBL: Community/Private Ownership
SEABL: Large Associations
SCM: Medium Associations
D1/D2 Small to Medium
VJBL down to domestic

Where the issue lies is in the poor administration of the sport.

ball is life

Dale = Naughty

@Happy Days, while I agree with part of that, there are many D1/D2 teams from the larger Associations that make up the divisions, without whom there would be no competition.

The sport could do with improvements in many areas, agree, however what I see is that many Associations at least seem to be getting better at their overall administration (with some hick-cups of course).

In the end it usually comes down to the dollar, with respect to success in quite a few of our local basketball leagues I suspect. I wouldn't like to see moneyball though, still nice to have young local talent devloped at their home Associations, that's where the structure you have listed comes into its own IMHO...

Thanks anon, but that is very much a subjective argument unless you quanity how we are going to judge or compare a large Association to a small one or a medium one.

Is it through numbers of VJBL teams, is it by total participants, is it by SEABL representation, how is it that you are going to make that comparison?

Just one example would be Geelong, quite a large Association with representation in (SEABL and YOUTH LEAGUE and Big V-Div1), I am sure there are others...

Bear it's hard to make an argument that any Div1 teams are large clubs using all of you're indicators, Geelong is the only one and Div1 Big V is their second team.

The observation i made was a generalisation and of course there are exceptions.I agree the admin in general is slowly on the improve but it still has a long long way to go.Lack of expertise, resources and money is the issue as well as the civil wars that exist in some associations.

Hahahaha sour pusses getting put back in their box left right and centre hahaha

I am responding to one of the anons here. The douche that started talking about D League in the states as a comparison to D2 in the Big V in Southern Australia (population 4 million). I didn't say that the 2nd level around the world should be ignored but let's tell but like it is. In Australia. There is the NBL, 2 conferences of the Seabl, Waratah in NSW and then the main league in each of the other states. Throw in the best of the domestic comps, etc and this has Big V Division 1 at probably the 15th best league in the country and Division 2 at about 20? We then get all if these guys coming on here talking about these leagues as if they are just below the NBA.

As for me being cut from the MMBL? I think you all being defensive suggests that you are the ones playing ball at this lowly level.

Basketball has never been a place that harbours brain surgeons and you morons are testament to that.

Also, choose a name so you are not all anonymous. It's too hard to bag individuals if you are all called Anon!!!

Sudbury, Warrandyte and Altona in Div1 I consider as quite large Associations with potential to grow into genuine powerhouse size, especially when population and venue development are considered.

In Div 2 we have Wodonga, Shepparton and Keilor, not small by any means and room to grow too. Are these any smaller than SCM teams like Hume City, Sherbrooke, Corio Bay, Whittlesea or McKinnon?

Just making a point that various divisions are also supported by the big boys, not just there for mediocre basketball as may be perceived by some of the above posts...

Sunbury, not Sudbury... Bloody iPad!

Dale, I think you may be one of us "morons" as your definitely chirping up and getting involved on here champ. Seems like someone has hit a nerve with you along the way haha, poor old lad.

Although it can be sometimes frustrating when ppl babble on about nonsense to do with "lower" divisions, if it really agitates you that much you could always skip those threads/comments OR you could potentially look at it as a good thing based on the fact that people out there are so enthused and passionate about the sport. I think both options are plausible and will lead to less bitching and moaning on your behalf.

Best of lucky to you

Luck***

SCM might be about CBL level but the product is a bit poorer this year with the new teams.

A few of the top teams would be competitive in SBL/QBL/SEABL but only a few...the rest pull the overall level down and it will only be worse this year due to the influx of D1 teams into the comp.

Maybe not Warrandyte, now, but the area is a growth corridoor so give it 10-15 years... :]

Bear, you should take a gander at BV's annual report. They normally show all associations by team size.

There are only 7-8 "quite" large associations in Victoria, and probably only 1 or 2 more outside Victoria...

Frankston, Dandy, Kilsyth, Nuna, Knox, Sandy, Hawthorn .. DV.

I heard Norths (Sydney) now has over 5000 players so they could be categorized as quite large.

Altona would be medium at best, Sunbury small - medium. Geelong might be medium but Country numbers are shown as players (count) rather than teams.

The quite larges above all have 600+ teams, Keilor has 430, Altona 318 and Sunbury 261.

You would have to call Shepparton with 850 players and Wodonga with 903 small.

This is all from the 2012 BV report which I picked up for a research project I am doing for a marketing course.

I believe Casey & Pakenham could eventually field teams in SC, but 2-3 years away is unrealistic.
More like 5-10.

#458772

535, if i could easily scan the last I'd put them all here...

Sorry, that was me, I thought Waverley was quite big, they probably belong at the bottom end of the earlier list.

Here's the list from BV:

Kilsyth 1069
Knox 975
Melbourne East 811
Dandenong 801
Frankston 678
Hawthorn 648
Diamond Valley 608
Sandringham 607
Waverley 535

Maybe Paul. If i was to categorise with a little more science I would go this....

Mega: 950+ Kilsyth and Knox

Large: 600 - 950 The rest of the mob above

Medium: 300 - 600 Waverley (535), Keilor (433), Whittlesea 407), Altona (318), Casey (336)

Small: 100 - 300 A whole bunch, including Broady (226), Bulleen (289), Melton (118), Pakenham (287), Ringwood (293), Sunbury (261), Werribee (298)

Tiny: everyone else ... Chelsea (99), Sherbrooke (85), and i presume a whole bunch of country associations.

FWIW, Bullen has 289 without a number given for their junior teams, and Eltham 194 without juniors, so not sure what their totals would be.

Paul their junior teams play in EDJBA so are counted there. This is where those associations call themselves a club - very different model.

For me the EDJBA is a hybrid, despite having a gazzillion teams! No one ever includes them in the bigs, as they don't, and I understand it can't, play rep.

Thanks HO, that's certainly one way to look at it, by participation.

There are of course anomalies, like Melbourne Tigers and Eltham for example...

Appreciate the post, cheers...

It all depends on who gets the money from those teams, you can have 400 domestic teams but if the council or stadium gets the revenue the clubs budget is very different to where the club may own the stadium.

#458845

You might want to try reading the whole thread, might help you with context, particularly what Bear was saying.

BTW, even without you understanding context I disagree with you. Domestic size does have a bearing, particularly on country teams.

Basically all of the large & mega associations play SEABL, with the exception of DV. The known larger country associations, Geelong, Bendigo and Ballarat also play SEABL. In the report I have they are the three largest associations in country, and on one has anything like their player base (all are over 2500 and no one else tops 2000).

There are some smalls that play Championship, notably but they are generally the larger smalls, bordering on mediums. Only one tiny plays Championship - Sherbrooke, which is also telling.

I would suggest to you that size of associations in the long term is a key determinant in talent production, having effective pathways etc., and being able to recruit against that.

Alternately you can look at the failures based on this measure. Given their domestic strength, why is Keilor languishing? Maybe the league should take this sort of approach?

And Melbourne boy you are spot on, controlling your own revenue is a key to playing consistently at a higher level as well. Waverley are a good example of this - pretty consistently at the upper end of champ, control their own venue etc.