IMO travel is travel regardless if there is an advantage

This is where we run into trouble. I understand where Mal is coming from and this has ALWAYS been the way it's been called at nbl level. The problem is, this and other little calls that are ignored so to speak at this level then filters done to the league below, then the one below that etc etc. we then have juniors that expect to get away with it and do, because young referees see it being let go at higher levels and so on.
So this actually leads to the game itself not being officiated or played correctly at lower levels due to this type of thing.

We are going to call the fouls how they are written in the rule books.

Travel? Oh thats ok if theres no advantage.

When exactly is it an advantage to the defence if the offence travels?
When there is a steal directly after and a fast break maybe.
His example though was spin steps while shooting.

What a clown.

An, now that's why Jamar can travel, no advantage there. NOT

The only clown's here are the posters above wanting every little travel called.

It was this culture of umpiring that killed the league from an entertainment point of view the last few years.

SO frustrating in lower levels too when a spin move is an automatic travel according to refs. We should be allowing more go and making the game fun not making it an umpires paradise.

I was pleasantly delighted by his whole segment, I guess you lose a bit of perspective that referees actually understand the terminology of the game and are fans themselves and aren't basically police that are there to blow their whistle when they see something, so that was fun. He is quite knowledgable as you'd expect from someone who's seen thousands of games!

As for the travel call, all I can say is he is the man with the power and he is wielding it in a way that's trying to produce a far more attractive product. Will the crowd notice travels from both sides and scream blue murder when the opposition does it and whisper to the person next to them when we do it... YES because that's WHAT we DO!
...referees recognize this and expect it and they are well schooled in blocking it out!

As for juniors and referees trying to call games like the referees in NBL, surely that is ridiculous as juniors you don't have dunking and it isn't a spectacle thing (you pay to play and not get paid) so let the juniors adhere to the rules and hopefully learn early about not nitpicking if it will benefit both sides and its not seen to be showing bias

If you travel and don't get called that's an advantage because you broke the rules and the other team doesn't get the ball as a result. This is why players and people in general hate referees.
If it's ok to travel sometimes, I guess it's ok to bitch slap a player without the ball because there isn't an advantage then in Mals eyes

Travel is travel, 3 seconds is 3 seconds, line is a line, not negotiable. If you want to talk about College Hoops picking up the travels and then say NBL don't so it's more entertaining so people go.... How ridiculous, I can get a ticket for any NBL game but try getting a ticket for a US college game in a 30K Stadium that is pumping and a feeder to NBA. Not boring !!!!

Players dont bounce the ball like a metronome or take equidistant metronomic steps that are timed with the dribbles, which is why travel calls are not black and white, and you have to take this into account with the gather step which fiba rulebooks kinda get wrong.

I particularly hate the travels at the top of the key when most people move their pivot foot. It just looks sloppy. Sure there's no advantage but like a few people have mentioned, where do they draw the line? If they're not going to call these travels then I think they should let go the times when players step on the line.

Illuminating travel calls is a player and coach responsibility. Everyone has training sessions between games. Some coaches use this time to work on footwork others don't. Penalise the ones who think footwork isn't that important.

When players spend a 60 minute session on shooting without footwork v shooting where travel is permitted, the end result is better shooting accuracy. However you might walk to make the basket, but hey they ain't calling it here. Oh woops they are calling at the worlds

They let lots of incidentals travels go in international basketball, I dont see why we should punish fans by being any different.

It's not punishing fans though, I get pissed off with it not being called. So you're punishing fans then by not calling it. There's no grey area in travels, just like there's no grey area in a clear sky

He made some good points for example, if theres a break away dunk and no one around, if a player takes an extra step, who care, if he takes 3 steps or 2 steps he was going to score anyway.

And they Americans don't think they travel either at international level when it's called, they think it's athleticism and refs get it wrong (American commentators made this comment over and over again in lead to Olympics and at Olympics)

If calling them makes it less entertaining by creating more stops in play, and the rest of the world don't call them either, why would you call it? To make a few sticklers for the absolute rules happy? I don't think those people will keep the league flying unless theyre all very rich.

If NBL referees had "feel for the game" in excess we wouldn't be having this discussion...

Wow I have a fan, thanks anon. That's 2 people that have agreed with me on here this year, more than the whole of 2013... Did I waste a whole year?

But seriously, basketball is a very instinctive and reactive sport and that is why we can watch and feel that someone has shuffled his feet, so you appeal for a call, it's not, player puts a shot up, if it misses then you feel justice is served and if the shot drops then refs are normally kinder on the next play if they feel that a 50/50 call could be made.
That play alone isn't perfect but its enough to keep the fans happy enough and we aren't bitching that refs are trying to be too impactful on the contest.

Sad but true the best refs are ones that we don't notice so please don't make calls for the sake of making them

I don't mind that idea of having refs out to team trainings occasionally and because the advice could go both ways rather than one only. A ref in that situation would have more time after a play to explain why they might've called a situation one way or another.

Wonder if it'd be viewed like the Mafia hosting the cops for lunch though...

Now that we've sorted that out (or at least agreed to disagree??) can we get some sort of consistency on the continuation rule?

If you play professional basketball and travel, then you shouldn't play professionally. It's shit you do in under 12s, and shouldn't be in the pros at all. It should be called all the time to breed it back out of the players. People went to the games 20+ years ago when the game was far more pure, so why would that change. The points been made at college games are packed and highly entertaining, and shits called more often than not there, so how would it kill the game at a pro level?
If you travel with nobody around you on a fast break you don't deserve the points. Plain and simple. It's like that scene in Daddy Day Care when the kid comes out the toilet and says he missed, and Eddie Murphy sees crap all over the walls and ceiling, you wouldn't do that as an adult.

I think you would struggle to find a game of basketball anywhere where there aren't travels let go, and that was the case in the 80s when I first started playing and following the game.

Failure to call travels results in fouls being called on defenders because they have to [or at least are more likely to] resort to illegal tactics to regain their position.

Saw it in Adelaide Saturday night. Steven Weigh made a four-step move to the basket and the defender got called for a foul after Weigh's fourth step. Wasn't the only example of the phenomenon one, but this was a very clear one. If looked that way live, and was reinforced with the footwork crystal clear on the big screen c/o NBL.tv.

However, the issue is probably bigger in mid court than in the paint. Defender makes position to defend or 'direct' the player with the ball based on the established pivot foot only to have the player with the ball take off with the wrong [illegal] foot, often with a couple of steps before the ball is put on the floor, and the defender is immediately out of position and either called for a foul or forced to try to re-position to defend a player who has used illegal footwork to gain an unfair advantage.

Call what's there. At least then the official only has to decide on the footwork, not also decide whether or not the illegal footwork gave the attacking player [in the ref's opinion!] an unfair advantage. Odds are it did, or the rule wouldn't be there in the first place.

The officials repeatedly prove they struggle to make good basic decisions, so why burden them with deciding whether or not something gives a player an unfair advantage? Isn't that how we got into the problems with the un-called contact issue of recent years in the first place? And now we're heading down the same path again?!

Just let's play by the rules and call what's there, then everyone knows what's going on. An error of judgement is an error. An opinion [about advantage or not]is an opinion, and every opinion is valid and equal, whether its the opinion of a ref, coach, player or spectator, so introducing the 'advantage' issue is opening Pandora's box and increasing the risk of more friction between refs, coaches and players. It also provides a 'cop out' line for lack of referee concentration, poor positioning or just plain bad/poor decisions.

Do we really want to go there? I don't.

Youre allowed to bump the cutter if you have position and they come into your ground.

POP, the travels youre talking about arent the ones this discussion is about. If the offensive player gets an advantage over the defence with a travel it should be called.

Have been frustrated at the call/no call on travel for some time now.

Officials need to call what is there IMHO, to the best of their ability and using common sense by taking into consideration the state of play, the level of competition and standard they have set for themselves during the game.

To be consistent on travel calls will only serve to improve everyone's enjoyment of the game, playing and watching, so I would like to see it simply called when it is a travel and when it needs to be called.

Under 10's that are still learning the concept need to be coached into it slowly and not be pulled up evey time, but at higher junior levels, adult level and the pro's, got to call it when it's there.

Having said that, I hate the tendancy some officials have to call almost all spin moves, some one has to put a stop to that...

When you are holding ground or moving and maintaining position, if there is contact there is a bump and it isnt a defensive foul. You are talking about illegally bumping the cutter.

@Paul, look at it this way, in football you bump someone, which is legal if it is done correctly.

In basketball you cannot bump, you can take some contact from the offense by standing your ground, but I cannot find anywhere where in basketball the defense can actually bump an offensive player.

Or at least that is what I see the rules are supposed to have us believe...

The worst is when a player gets the ball and is bumped by a defender, only to lose balance and get called for a travel, that one sucks!!

Let's make it simple. The argument really is about advantage/disadvantage.
If you travel and nobody is around you, it's an advantage to you still. You don't lose the ball to the other team as you should, which could create 2 or more points. You've been given a green light to be lazy really, and if that's not an advantage then what the hell is?
Just like 3 seconds. If you are in the key for more than 4 seconds (maybe allow a grace period of a second to get out) then you are creating an advantage for your team regardless if you get the ball or not because the defence has to react accordingly to the played camping in the key.

Since when do you listen to people saying they lost because they didn't play by the rules, the ump picked them up for breaking the rules..... Here's a thought...l. Play by the rules..... It's the mentality that it's the policemans fault that I got caught speeding and drink driving. You know it's illegal but you commit until you get caught. The majority will change if they get caught often enough... Those that don't end up hurting some one else, or in the case of the Ball continue at the expense of the other team. With drink driving it's the potential loss of life, Ball, loss of a game.....l

Just play by the rules and stop making those who do the right thing or expect it think that they have it wrong..., They don't... A rule which is so simple needs no interpretation, it's a rule... Comparing NBL to NBA needing travel to make it entertaining !!! Pretty sad. I love watching College Ball and so do the 35k watching it courtside. Travels getting picked up make it fair and you get to see the true champion team and the skill and smarts of the game and players gain respect..... Euro all is boring and their is loads of travels. Made no difference in my eyes.

Start 14/15 season with a statement that travels will be called. Call them in the first few games and it will stop. Those who don't need rehab.... Done..

I agree with Annon. Call the rules as they stand. If you call it, they will change, we saw that at the start of this season (until the refs stopped calling it, anyway).

If the league wants a more entertaining package, introduce (ironic, I know!) some rules like clear-path-to-the-basket to promote exciting finishes in the open court.

"If you travel and nobody is around you, it's an advantage to you still. "

I hope youre not a ref Ricey because you've completely misinterpreted the advantage/disadvantage rule.

I acknowledge 'advantage' is mentioned in the rule book but I don't see the 'advantage/disadvantage rule' [if it is actually there in those terms, which I sincerely hope it isn't] as a 'rule'. It points, at best, to interpretation. Any decision made on the basis of 'advantage' is most certainly an opinion, which is where we strike the problem; not only because an opinion is always subjective but because it burdens the official with having to make a 'thought through' decision - develop an opinion - rather than making a simple, quick, reactive call based on what he or she has seen.

Simplest is best ... and also clearest and least likely to cause confusion and angst, in this environment.

"If the league wants a more entertaining package, introduce (ironic, I know!) some rules like clear-path-to-the-basket to promote exciting finishes in the open court."

That rule already exists.

606 take a chill pill..... Everyone is talking about obvious travels 1,2, 3 travel, no established pivot foot, pivot switch..... Not a simple foot drag at speed.... Going off about might as well do this then and not do this sounds to me like you need some relaxation. Stick to the subject. No one has mentioned the difficulty interpreting fouls in play. Travel is completely different.

606 take a chill pill..... Everyone is talking about obvious travels 1,2, 3 travel, no established pivot foot, pivot switch..... Not a simple foot drag at speed.... Going off about might as well do this then and not do this sounds to me like you need some relaxation. Stick to the subject. No one has mentioned the difficulty interpreting fouls in play. Travel is completely different.