Oops! I forgot this was televised on delay. Sorry for the spoiler in the thread title.

Change something? How about the Kings get a PG, that's a good place to start.

And then I suppose you can sack whoever decided not having a PG was a good idea.

I agree he was a great player but not a great coach Geordie McLeod would win with heal's lineup couldn't win at dragons couldn't win in business the bloke treats people like crap send him back to qld loser loser loser

Was at the game heal's laungage towards heckler was disgusting my young family won't be going to a kings game while mr heal is coaching agree he was a great player but the guys can't coach he should be moved on

Whoever made the decision to have Carmouche/Madgen as PG should get sacked. Whether that was Heals decision or not. Who knows???

Was at the game heal's laungage towards heckler was disgusting my young family won't be going to a kings game while mr heal is coaching agree he was a great player but the guys can't coach he should be moved on

I quite like Hammer coaching the Kongs as an opposition fan we can still give him plenty and he loves it. I just hope I don't respect him more than his own players.

He has made some good decisions regarding his squad; Ogilvy was a brilliant decision, Harvey as sporadic as he plays is still quality and you'd gather a locker room leader and Brad Hill to PF was genius (didn't he score like 40 in pre-season). Garlepp is far better than we thought he would be warming the bench at the Blaze!

I think Hammer is great for the Kings brand and great for the NBL and I love having a coach that gives you as much as he does.

I can't understand their PG situation (what's with Gleason and his lack of court time) but I still think Sydney has overachieved this season and who thought Madgen would be as good a player as he is?

Not sure how influential Heal was in Crosswhite retiring or the Aaron Bruce situation but Heal doesn't deserve a contract extension but he deserves to keep his job!

I'm just grateful that Shane Heal doesn't coach Perth.

Where to start.....
How many weeks in a row has he been out coached!?
Sam Young had a great first half but got in foul trouble and looked frustrated.
I don't see them winning another game without a proper point guard.
Cody Ellis looked very comfortable.
Brad Hill's time is now majorly effected it seems.
Madgen is of no use if he is not hitting shots, does very little else to effect the game. He passes as a last option.
Ogilvy doesn't see the ball enough. 6 shot attempts.
No rebounders for the Kings where as the Taipans were everywhere!
No Weeks, no Gleeson.
No Tragardh.
Tough time to be a Kings fan, really testing my loyalty.

"Crosswhite retired because of heal"

No. Crosswhite retired because his family own a farm, he was getting old and he's been carrying niggling injuries since around 2009. The move to Sydney was only ever a transition move to get back nearer to the farm in NSW. It was never going to be more than a season.

They start focused & then they fade away. His coaching has been ???. He has pressure on him now. Samcro cant save him!!!

The commentary team got something right - it was the dumb fouls Ogilvy and Young made in the third quarter that cost Sydney the game. There's not much Heal could have done about that.

From what I heard, the Sanders decision was out of his hands, but the fact that it was made by someone is ridiculous. Hard to blame Hammer for that, but I agree something has to change. Removing a key PG has had a ripple effect throughout the team, chemistry, getting the right players the right shots, organisation, all are suffering... AJ isn't getting his shots, Madgen isn't able to work off the ball to get open, the team just looks lost on the court... Nothing is being run, it's just looking so disorganised when teams force them to play a half court game...

Hammer has done some great things for the Kings as a coach, re-signing Madge, working on AJ in his off-seasons and bringing him in this season, bringing in Garlepp, but he's also brought in Gleeson and Harvey, the latter of which is just a liability, so I can't say he doesn't have his dodgy moments... What he's achieved with the teams he's had has outweighed that in my book and it would be a shame for him to cop the brunt of the down swing... Especially when the team shot 47% from FT line tonight...

What has to be done? PG... Will it be done? I doubt it...

Dad: looks like Heal's spray at the heckler was noticed.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/shane-heal-furious-as-sydney-kings-lose-again-20140103-30a5n.html

If the Kings had just kept everything as it was and never signed Young, I believe they would be pushing up with the Tigers on the ladder.
If it wasn't Heal that made decision on imports and team then i think he should resign and spill the beans on what goes on. His coaching reputation is getting trashed and it may have been the cause of others. You cannot coach a team if decisions on the team are made by others at the expense of the team. It means Heal is just a marketing gimmick.
With Madgen, Ogilvy, Garlepp, Camouche, Harvey, Hill, those guys are good enough to beat most. The one thing missing is someone to carry the ball and distribute it properly.
In saying that though they are not utilising Ogilvy. Simple plays to isolate him at the post and sitting Madgen, Harvey and Camouche on 3pt line for the double team while Garlepp times movement into the paint for the boards. Sounds great on paper, just need the coach to implement.

The kings have have been welcomed to the Marty Clarke era.

Good post "sixtiesrockstar"

However, Heal needs a job....not going to sacrifice his salary by quitting and telling some home truths. Nothing will be gained by that.

Thought Cody Ellis went good last night. Seems like he will be a good pick up. If only he was a Point Guard though. The Kings are also wasting money by having like 11-13 contracted players. You don't need that many with 40 min games. The salary could be distributed better

He was a great player but he's not a coach's backside! His overall coaching record reflects this.
Ultimately coaches are judged on wins and losses.
Let him see out the season because without a point guard this season is a write off anyway.
Keep Ogilvy, MAYBE Young, blow the rest of the team up and start again.
Hire Brian Goorjian.

Can't see an NBL club being able to afford Goorjian and we have lost Bevo as well, for several years at least. Maybe the NBL will be a training ground for new young coaches? Bigger coaching staff lists tho.
Gleeson still has a couple of weeks out due to a training injury. Can anyone confirm that?
Overtrained and underplayed.....the common belief of American coaches who get a look at our basketball programme in Australia.

I feel sorry for AJ.

Several times he got good seals down low and was ignored. Then to have someone jack up a shot over him.

You can see he is frustrated out there.

Heal needs to use AJ more, much more.

Madgen came back earlier than expected, Armour wasn't needed. Nothing wrong with that. The injury waiver idea was necessary.
Allen has proved to be a good State League player, not up to NBL standard altho Shane must have thought he could make progress with him. He won't get another chance, surely. Gleeson could be the same but, if injured, he won't get a chance anyway.
The worst waste is AJ....money and talent.

Whats gleesons deal? Wasn't he killing it in preseason? Like top scoring?

The fan/heckler was actually the executive director of the NBL and part owner of the Kings Steve Dunn. Steve wanted Madgen back on but Shane told him to eff off and he was a effing idiot...then Steve turned to the crowd and said "I pay the bills around here. Heal is out."

That's pretty savage stuff ....if correct.
Unprofessional from every angle.

Steve was sitting in a corporate box and a number of people in the stands and the boxes saw and heard it. Even the team heard.

I thought that it was highly unprofessional to give your own fans a spray, but to do that to your own boss is just plain stupid!
Pathetic stuff all round really, well if this is true, it is definitely time to make a move, cut your losses, because nothing good comes from a toxic environment such as this.
The team as a whole looks stressed and frustrated.

Heal should have done a Ben Madgen and thrown a chair at him and then gone home and got all Aaron Bruce on twitter.

Heal has traditionally got the best out of what he has been given. 4 losses in a row now has them under pressure and if Heal has verbally abused the owner . . . could we see a new coach at their next game vs Adelaide?

I hope he stays on for a bit longer, at least one more game longer

It's true alright and widely known. Dunn was in a corporate box so a lot of people heard the whole exchange, including several journalists.

Does the NBL hand out fines for bringing the game into disrepute?

Grab the popcorn... this could get interesting.

Is it possible they are good mates and this is just some fun banter?

I believe Heal is gone and kings board has started search and have contacted potential candidates

Not condoning what Heal did and agree that the Kings at present are a basket case with no apparent direction but I don't care if the guy was the team owner, manager, NBL board member or whoever. He should butt out of any decisions about team tactics etc. Sure if you are not happy with the coach and pay the bills it's fine to dump him but until then it's his call. Madgen was playing poorly and had just missed two crucial free throws. Think he was replaced by Harvey once the Kings needed quick 3's and that was not a bad call IMO.

Clearly both off court and on court issues are impacting the team - West Sydney went under under the current King's leadership - and the outlook for them again is a real issue - no doubt interference has impacted Shane's ability to get this team firing - as it did with West Sydney - the organisation should have ensured that someone like Damian Keogh got the chairmanship instead of being the head honcho at Cronulla Sharks - when in doubt blame the coach not the out of date Board

A trade - Cadee for Madgen - mmmm that would be interesting ! Would a case of Coriole and a tray of frog cakes seal the deal?

Who was meant to be the coach in that instance?

Is it official that Shane Heal has been sacked ?

Unsure...

Clearly it is a leaky ship. Must be some truth to it though.

NO...... absolute gossip.
Everyone will cool down cause it will result in big financial payout and that is what rules the NBL. Tragic, but on the mark most times.

If the decision of Sanders and Young had nothing to do with Heal then the recent results are not his fault. A team with no PG never going to perform. The damage done to team morale of playing group in that one decision is enough to ruin them.
It sounds like owners and management get too involved in the playing side of the club and Heal is well within his rights to tell them to @#$%off (especially during a game). An untenable position for any coach who should be given freedom to do his job of coaching. I can only imagine all the other crap and backstabbing that is going on "off the court" in the backrooms which only destabilise a club.

Heal was a "great Player"? Really? Very liberal with the use of "Great". Canvas his ex-team mates and see if they use "Great". Good at times, always divisive.

Nepotism is a real problem - Chairman Hudson - Assistant Coach Hudson - so many examples over the years - Cadee for Magden - what a joke but then again the Hudson/ Cadee click is strong!!!

Any word on if Heal has actually been sacked?
List of possible replacements?
With a decent point guard and a new philosophy this season may well be salvageable.
Sam Young's body language said it all last night, clearly not happy, throwing his towel, looked like he wasn't interested in the slightest. Time for a new voice. Re-energise the group.

I agree with the anon who said Heal was a dominant player but that hasn't translated into his coaching career. I don't see another team picking him up.

Heal was, as a player, a PUNK. Watch the whole game v Dream Team III. If Barkley was as classless as Heal, he would have broke him in half. Sydney failed to do their research on Heal as a coach or an NBL player - he was and is toxic.

Well honestly, you'd think being a point guard himself Heal would recognise the importance of the position. So looking at it that way, I'm not too sure getting Young was entirely Shane's call.

Getting Young is not the problem, in fact you would be stupid not to get someone of his calibre into the NBL and onto your team whenever the opportunity arises - hence I'm not surprised it was the boards decision (apparently).

The fact that they released Sanders instead of Carmouche was the fatal mistake in the end. Almost everyone on this forum recognised that releasing Sanders instead of Carmouche would be a silly move even before it happened, yet they did it. Surely Heal had some say in that aspect of the decision making. Either way the Kings are either being run by idiots or coached by one and something has to give.

With 5 games in 13 days at the end of the season,
and now none of them expected to be a win, can it get any worse?
I admire Heal's loyalty to his Board but they should have spoken up and told the public how those changes were made.

Heal hasn't been sacked (yet). There was an exchange between Dunn & Heal and some things were said, I believe they were in the heat of the moment however.

In saying that, I don't expect Shane back next season.

Wasn't Heal signed on a 2 year contract? Not that contracts can't be broken or voided but it could be costly to dump him.

This is his second year of a 2 year contract.
Only 2 players signed for next season I think.
Ellis and Madgen

The history with the Kings is simple. Heal sleeping on the sidelines will always be better than Moose as their coach. He ain't perfect but the kings wanted to keep links with the past.

Maybe the best deal is to swap Carfino for Heal. Heal is not bad as a commentator compared to Carfino.

Madgen SA boy for Cadee East Coast boy sounds like a great trade.

Shane Heal is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike

Guys I you are being a bit rough on Heal.

I think for a young coach he does well.

He put the Kings into the playoffs last year when many had them LAST.

Calling him usless is unfair.

Didn't say it was a rumour
I know people who have been contacted

Rubbish.
I bet they haven't even had an emergency board meeting. It's not a one owner team remember.
Bet everyone has cooled down today altho no one is happy, especially the players.

What is an Executive Director?
Above or below the CEO? I guess below.
Can the NBL have a go at him for his behaviour at a game being inappropriate/holing the game in disrepute?
Should NBL part owners be staff members?

Hey guys, some great points here.
I heard Carfino say that "Ellis must have done his homework, cause he fits in extremely well, and Shane's system is complicated." My point is maybe the guys are having to think too much on the court and not let there talent or game flow. (Ben Allen not included)
I honestly dont know whether he should be sacked. I cant think of someone reasonable to take over.
The big problem, as mentioned a number of times in this forum is no Point Guard. No "coach on the floor" to guide the troops. Heal/Kings stakeholders think he can do it from the sidelines. I beg to differ.

That being said, A point guard away from being a perenial finals team. Gotta make better recruiting decisions.

On a side note - Heal managed to recruit a gem in Ellis. Who looked great on Friday.

Ellis followed the money. Nothing more than that

Not sure if Ellis followed money or not (no idea what he's on).. In Sydney however he does get more of a chance to play than he would have in Perth behind Redhage, Wagstaff, Hire, Ennis and so forth.

If I was Sydney I'd be more worried about the signings of Allen & Gleeson who have seen next to no court time, but like someone above said, are getting paid to live in Sydney and practice with the team. Granted Gleeson has been injured most of the season.

Ellis Snr was keen for Jnr to start his career somewhere besides the Cats altho he will end up there further down the track. That makes good sense. He has a very young family and needs the support. Sydney is so expensive.
Remember he needed an NBL team to also take him on half way thru the season. Not many teams could do that. For Kings to have been able to sign up NBA Young, and a top rookie player for half a season, shows how much they had left over in kitty.
AJ may feel a little cheated in the salary area.
Was assured his salary offer could not go higher.

Sounds like there are too many chefs in the kitchen at the Kings.
Somebody step up and make a decision for the good of the game here in Sydney and the NBL.
The teams attitude, body language, general enthusiasm is far from encouraging. They look defeated when the going gets tough, it's like here we go again. It's not a good look right now.
Looks as though he has completely lost Young and AJ looks as though he's not into it either.
This 'sack Heal debate' is not healthy for the game.
Either make the call and start fresh or look for a solution. Start with a point guard maybe!
The season is salvageable but I don't see it happening with Heal as head coach and if the results and the negativity continues the whole situation could severely hurt the Kings and the game going forward. Basketball has taken too many hits over the years.

If the Kings had made no roster moves whatsoever, Sydney would be only narrowly behind Melbourne right now, and you could flip a coin between the two as to who will get third.

If they'd brought Young in for Carmouche, who knows where they'd be.

I can't see how Heal is the problem here.

But you got to admit, Shane's subbing at crucial times, is often unproductive and disruptive. And that's being kind.

How is this the 'Official' thread? Is it endorsed by Heal?

Just a bit of fun after all the sack Marty threads last season skip. I thought it would be good to have 1 "official" thread for the inevitable sack Heal calls after the Kings' 4th straight loss.

The much discussed run-in with an owner during the game only adds to those calls.

As I said in my original post, I don't think sacking Heal is going to improve their performance but obviously there are many who do. What is obvious is that this team is struggling so something has to change if they are to have any hope of making the finals.

Not that I think it will, but please don't let the sacking happen this week. There is no more entertaining coach to watch and listen to currently than Shane.

If the report is correct about the comments made by Steve Dunn then it should be the responsibility of the other Kings owners to come out and discipline him and to either refute or confirm this rumour

What is happening here is certainly not good for our sport

Time to man up Phil Hudson and tell us what is going on- maybe he is grooming his son for the role - nepotism at it's worst

IMO the Young contract/idea was started and finished at the Kings' board. Neither coaching staff or players apparently had been consulted or informed until it was an agreed deal.
Shane probably chose which import would go.
That was an unenviable job when he couldn't really explain the full intent to Saunders.
The Hudson problems will get worse.

@anon
Can you guarantee Heal made these decisions? How do you know?
Heal's job is to run the team and up until the Sanders decision was doing a pretty good job. Made finals last year and sitting fourth and pushing for third this season. Then some bad roster moves made which have seriously affected chemistry and morale. Obviously a lot going on behind the scenes and then story of part owner mouthing off at the coach during a game. Not a good look. Heals coaching has been compromised by off court issues which will make even the best coaches look crap and effect results.
Heal is going to wear the brunt of this when it may not even be his fault. I am not even a Heal fan.
If the Kings still had a PG they would be looking good. If Heal made roster decisions then fair enough, but if he didn't then.....

If the report is correct about the comments made by Steve Dunn then it should be the responsibility of the other Kings owners to come out and discipline him and to either refute or confirm this rumour

I'm glad you mentioned "alleged" Isaac.

I like having Hoops around ;)

@Isaac - I of course don't condone the alleged response from Hammer many years ago and the way that he responded in the game to Dunn, but I think you're underselling the abuse that was pointed at Hammer from Dunn, who had been continually "colourfully" abusing the refs for most of the game as well... From what I've heard of what Hammer said, it wasn't like a verbal attack at Dunn, it was to tell him to "f-off" as now wasn't the time to get stuck into it... Using the F-bomb in front of families and sponsors of course is completely unacceptable and he SHOULD have just not made any reaction to Dunn, but it's not as vicious as some are making it out to be... Certainly not as bad as some twitter reports of what Ennis had to say to a Hawks fan on the weekend... (this doesn't justify Hammer's comments in anyway though, I understand that)

As everyone has said at one point in recent times, if we hadn't of gotten rid of our only PG, most likely we wouldn't be in the situation that we are in now... The person who made THAT decision needs to correct it ASAP, or the season is a write off...

Sounds a bit simplistic but let the coach coach and the owners pay the bills. If the coach doesn't deliver then he gets sacked.

Watching the game on TV I can see where Dunn is. Certainly close enough to have a say. Drunk or not it's not cool. Reaction from Heal, not good either, but I think this is a storm in a tea cup.

If Sydney get a new coach, they will need a huge name to take over as the face which Heal is being touted as. Goorjian is the only name I can think of that will suffice.

I wasn't sure what Heal was going to be like a few years ago when he started, but I think he goes ok, no matter what team you are in. No PG is going to make for a messy outcome.

Whether Heal brought Young in, sacked Sanders or the Kings board did so, Heal is the head coach and it is his job to win games.
Simple fact is without the current consortium there is no Sydney Kings.
This is how professional sports work in most cases and this is why a good head coach of any professional sports team is so important and why the position is in such high demand.
He is 1 and 4 since the arrival of the most credentialed imports to play in the NBL, the team is in disarray, he is publicly fueding with part owners, he is trying the same old boring game plan and expecting different results and his overall track record as a coach in the NBL is not good.
A move, a possible solution or even management addressing the whole situation would be great at this stage.

@JW21 - I agree that he has to try something different, but you can't honestly believe that things CAN go about as normal when the only proper PG is removed from the team? Add to that the fact that Young just looks disinterested when he doesn't have the ball and despite all his big talk about doing whatever needs to be done to help the TEAM win, he's not doing it... He's supposed to be a defensive stopper, but I haven't seen anything close to resembling that...

The Kings are actually 1-5 since Young was brought in and have lost 4 in a row.

Interesting to have a look at their upcoming games - Sixers in Adelaide will be a loss, then Taipans in Cairns (another L) followed by the surging Tigers in Sydney 48 hours later (likely L) Adelaide in Sydney (probable L), Breakers in NZ (probable L - Kings haven't won there since coming back into NBL), NZ in Sydney (50-50) then Hawks in Sydney (50-50) followed by the Sunshine Swing.

As things stand, there is not one game on their upcoming schedule in the next 6-8 weeks that a Kings fan would look at and feel confident of a W. January is make or break for Heal IMO.

@Wookiee.
Again, it is his job as the head coach to get the best out of his players, they all seem to be regressing.
Persisting with Heal now is like beating a dead horse in my opinion.

NBL coaches should pick their own roster of players. Amazing that one player can unbalance a previously successful group. I guess BB is that sort of sport.
Kings are totally out of balance atm.
How do you change that?

@JW21 - how do you expect anyone to get the best out of players that aren't working with an on-court floor leader and having to work out of position due to a vital missing role?

Coach needs to make the case to management that he/they made a mistake (obviously influenced by Carmouche's form) and that they could make noise in the finals plus are still a good chance to make them with the right change.

If the Kings have Heal for a season to come and plan to keep him, they could be surely convinced. If not, then they may well write off this season.

The bridge with Aaron Bruce has been burnt and unemployed local PGs are few and far between. It either has to be an import change, or hope that swapping out a scrub for Tom Daly or a SEABLer works.

What's their situation under the points cap?

Yeah, but that's saying that the person making that decision is open to criticism... You'd think if they were stupid enough to make the call to boot Sanders over Carmouche, there's some mental fragility there...

What's their situation under the points cap?

Isaac,
What is the situation with Heal's contract?
I thought it was 2 years and this is the second.
Was it originally for 3?

Cut Carmouche for a point guard is the logical solution. Is there some reason why Sydney haven't done this ?

Shane needs to remember what it was to be a player.
That respect can be recovered.
Players' self confidence needs to be restored also.

No question the Kings board needs to shoulder a great deal of the responsibility for this absolute debacle. Where's the leadership? Phil Hudson (ex-Razorbacks) is the chairman, but when was the last time anyone heard from him? This whole Steve Dunn business is a fiasco but all you get is silence from the board and front office. That's just one of many issues with this entire organisation.

IMO there needs to be a complete cleanout, top to bottom, before the Kings brand is damaged beyond repair - if it hasn't been already.

Unfortunately a clean-out of the type you suggest would likely result in no Kings.

tanking for Damo. how f----n hilarious

@Anon451580 - you pretty much read my mind... but I had (with points ratings just in case):

Damo (10) / Cadee (6)~
Madgen (10)^ / Maynard (3)
Import (10) / Ellis (3)
Peach (8) / Garlepp (7)#
AJ (10) / Brandt (3)
Total: 70

^ - Madge could possibly/should go down a point this season... I'm not a Wildcats fan, so I'm not going to say he should be re-rated Redhage-style down to an 8 or whathaveyou, but a 9 is reasonable...

# - We got lucky locking in Garlepp at a 4pt rating, if there's still a cap next season, would be good to test the waters to shave an extra point off him if possible...

~ - It would be great to get Cadee back home, but also an option is Tomlinson if he hasn't cemented his roots too much down south...


Brandt is another local boy and by all acounts, doing really well coming back from a redshirt season... Have had my eye on him for a little while and would give a legit backup 5 presence... Plus his little bro is a Dev player, got to keep the family sweet ;)

Didn't even think of Maynard, but with two legit ballhandlers in local boy Cadee and Damo, it would be possible to save 2pts if we can't pick him or someone similar up and go with a 1pt back up player...

Having a passion and the $$$$$$$$$$'s to be a basketball team owner does not equate with being a strong basketball administrator or leader - Hudson was in charge of West Sydney Slammers, West Sydney Razorbacks and both ventures failed -little confidence that he can lead The Kings and this current debacle and his lack of comment is indicative of poor leadership

No idea on Heal's contract, just going on what someone had previously said.

Wait. Heal coaches?

Is Damo a free agent after this season?

Not really a Homicide fan, but I wonder if swapping Carmouche for a loud-mouth like Homicide might spark Young into giving a crap?

Bring back Corin Henry! Can play the PG position and also understands Shane Heals system. We also had butts on seats. Kids loved him and he always had time for fans.

What is membership now? Less than 1000?

Agree with Jones29
No doubt the Kings board need to shoulder responsibility for this. They are the ones who have caused it all. Did anyone read Boti's articles when Young was first signed. The King's weren't answering Boti's calls and couldn't confirm his signing. Silence . No return calls. No professionalism. Any wonder things are sliding as they are now. Everyone keeps pointing out the simple solution about needing PG and what is response from the Kings. Zero. All they can do is heckle the coach they should be supporting. All class.

If, and it is a BIG IF, the Kings can pull off a W in any of the coming games (especially if there are no team changes) will that change the $$ coming through the door for the Kings ownership significantly? Marginal increase in attendances maybe??

Surely the ownership are losing money. If owners are able to write losses off on tax is there ANY incentive whatsoever is actually running the organisation as a thriving business?

looks like heal can earn $60k a year for 3 years

Anon, sometimes you have to play the cards you are dealt.
Moose was in at the start of the resurrection, so was probably a reason it was able to get back running.
Heal might not be the best choice of coach, but that could be said in many teams if you are on their supporter base and not going well.

Sydney were doing OK pre-Young and last season considering. I don't know that a rash call on Heal would be more effective than solving the PG problem.

To be fair Anon #696, Weeks has been a long time Dev player pre-Heal and wasn't even given a contract this season... I'd say Hudson would be his Dad's boy, and while I don't doubt that Allen was his choice, and I think Burston was either still available or at least hadn't been announced at Taipans yet, was a last minute fill in for the retiring Crosswhite... I think for the points, Burston was the only other player anywhere close to being able to fill in at the spot needed, not that we have used Allen much (thank the gods) but considering what Hammer got out of him in QBL, I was ok with him giving him a chance for limited minutes... If it paid off, all the better... It hasn't, so back to the drawing board...

Otherwise, I agree that it's mates rates for Harvey, Gleeson quite possibly as well, but had been a better performer in the lower ranks and at least a more known commodity than other names going around... I've been on the record many times not liking the big chunk of points that Harvs has been taking up, even though he's very personable and great with the fans, on court, sadly, he needs to hang up the boots...

Just remember Madgen wasnt on anyones radar and look what Heal helped turn him into

He also had to deal with Crosswhite retiring on the eve on the season starting too

Injuries have hurt the team too. Madgen and Harvey both started the season late

Heal's record with the rosters he's had look pretty reasonable to any Adelaide fans of recent years! There aren't always brilliant alternatives around with caps to consider.

Without Harvey (who I don't really like as a player), where was the veteran presence on the roster once Crosswhite went? There's no Hinder, Redhage, Bruton, etc to work with.

There has been consensus that the rosters Heal has had to work with have been woeful to say the least. He has managed to make the most of what he has had and outdo coaches with better rosters.

Based on that he might be one of the best Strategical coaches in the NBL.

He seems to have a weakness when it comes to the Heckler. "If his skin were any thinner we could see his bones" Whenever he has a meltdown there always seems to be a heckler in the mix.

Which reminds me of the "Radford Curry" incident last season. I forget the guy's name, but after a loss last season he basically gave MR some curry from the sidelines and MR served it back to him with a little red chilli on top.

Speaking of soft shells, Ennis needs to learn to deal with some heckling too!

Nice find Anon, great comparison

Anyone know if there has been a board or player committee meeting? Any news of changes?

The most recent news from the team Facebook page is a photo collage of Kevin White in agony after hurting his ankle and a feel good story about team morale being great.
Spare us the sob stories and start producing on court.
A new coach or a new point guard would be news worth reporting.

Old White news, mentioned 2 days back.
Nothing wrong with a team morale story if it was believable. Players only human.

Actually, more recent news is an article trying to spin away from the current mess:

http://www.sydneykings.com/article/id/bwjv86j2xm8u1lzjmug8iuady

It contains quotes from players saying the same old things, and also the worst use of images I've ever seen in an NBL article, and that's saying something... At least the NBL can use images ok in their articles, but the Kings repeatedly butcher and squish and squash their shots to make them look even uglier...

Now a Ben Allen article, didn't even bother reading it.
Band aid articles trying to cover up or divert our attention from the real issues.
Do they really think that we are this gullible?
Please get your act together as an organisation. It is getting embarrassing.

I wonder if stats showing before and after Young becoming a Kings' player, would be more interesting than the Sanders' comparisons?
Interesting may not be the word.

Agree on Sam young stats ....
PLUS he is leading the league in turnovers per game (24 in 6 games)
PLUS his attitude and body language on and off the court are terrible.
No wonder the rest of the team is suffering from the effects of this "superstar" and they have lost 5 from 6 pretty badly since he came in

What's the difference between the Sanders comparison and the Young comparison? Wouldn't they be exactly the same? I don't recall either Sanders or Young missing a game, nor do I recall there being any games between Sanders leaving and Young arriving.

No difference in stats for Sanders v. Young.
That's the whole point ...... all the talk is about missing Sanders when the talk should really be about getting rid of Young.
The stats of every player in the team are down since Young arrived and they wont improve as long as he is there.

There are plenty of stats differences pre and post Young. The Kings pace alone has dropped around off by around 14

It's possible/likely that both sides have had an impact, but I'd be trying a new point guard before I threw out Young, and that's as someone who isn't a Young fan from what I've seen. I wonder if Young could be on a no-cut contract they'd need to pay out?

A new point guard could make Young a whole lot better player.

The reason I suggested Homicide was that he's brash and might form enough of a clique with Young that it motivates the two into becoming a showcase duo. Young at peak on offence might be enough to get the Kings moving and if he's making the highlight reels the rest of the league doesn't care about his D.

Someone like Homicide would be great and I like your thinking, Isaac, I think someone like that would help bring the swagger and get Young a bit more comfortable... He just seems like he's feeling like a bit of a mercenary for hire and it's not sitting well with him...

Not sure if Homicide should be the one? Looking at eurobasket, he's last played in Lebanon last May, but he's 36... I think he'd still have the skills to facilitate, but hasn't there been rumours about not working with team chemistry in the last few teams?

It'd be nice to have a floor leader, which he is, and he'd understand about getting the right players involved and works hard, so I'd take him over Carmouche, sadly... but I'd be concerned about wrecking team chemistry even further...

They could do worse than homicide at this time of year getting someone on the cheap who has already played in aust is a good thing. Would only be for the rest of this season. Young will get his 20ppg but others like Ogilvy have suffered. Don't think homicide would take any crap from Heal.

I wouldn't suggest Homicide normally but I'd take the risks at this point because the things you'd definitely get are what's needed - distributor, personality, attitude. Not like he could mess up chemistry and cause more losses than you're suffering now.

If Young is phoning it in, Homicide might get him thinking "Let's show these clowns up and win it all."

Ahh haaaaa haaaaa!!! The B.S. that was Shane on Fox Sports...

And P.S. what exactly was the point of writing an article on Allen when he is unlikely to play with Ellis here?

Lol...love the reference to "Yukon" and not UConn...

"The Hoosiers" Baaa haaa haa!!!

Shame, I thought FoxSports would have the clip of Shane being on already like they have in the past, but guess not...

@Me: The Kings have been writing articles on all their players so far this season, I guess it was just Ben's turn... Funny timing to be sure, but no dodgy motives...

Time for the people that promoted this thread as fact to admit they were wrong - mind you there are still problems with the organisation that Hudson has yet to address

Okay, Apology put forward. Heals behaviour was definitely different on Sunday and they had obviously put in some work for the game. Dunny got his wish with Madgen With minutes plus. Let's see how it plays for a few more weeks, so hold judgement for now.... Still needs to sort out some attitudes on court or ego's I should say, but no where near where Melbournes attitude is. That match up will be a fiery one with loads of rule bending. Hopefully the umps allocated are able to keep it fair....

Why isn't Ben Knight assistant anymore?

He can't afford to put in the hours for the money paid. Wonder how Tim Hudson can survive?

If Shane Heal's brains were made of dynamite he still wouldn't have enough to blow his ears off.