Haven't watched every Kings game, but I'd hazard a guess and say he's simply not getting the ball in the places he wants due to the lack of PG. He's a finisher not a creator.

How often have they been getting out in transition also?

I assume he's doing a good job on the defensive end?

Had hoped that the great game against Melbourne meant he realised he wasn't here on holiday and had decided to pony up. I only watched the tail end of Woll-Sydney, but there wasn't anything particularly inspirational.

At the very least, he's well off Ennis' pace.

Hard to tell yet, playing against Wollongong's schemes was always going to be a big test, he probably hasnt played a team of that style before.

I think given the whole Kings team is unsettled at the moment it might take another month before we get a good read on him. Certainly the Melbourne game showed he can do some pretty nice things.

He's a better NBA player than Ennis will ever be, but he's half the NBL player... if that makes sense.

He's a grit and grind defensive stopper at the NBA level.

Ennis is like a poor man's Jason Richardson.

Will always look better in the NBL.

^ Just for posterity, no that that didn't make much sense.

Some guys are NBA level..but you can't imagine them lighting up another league. Sam Young is one of those guys. Then there are others who aren't even NBA level but are superstars elsewhere.

Kinda like how Mika Vukona has the same averages no matter what league he plays in...

Now I've confused myself...

Umm...

Dont worry mate, I understood exactly what you meant!

To Mick's point, it really just comes down to 1) individual ability to create and 2) teammates ability to create.

- Ennis has both (2 boxes checked)
- Young doesn't have either (we'll say half a box checked for individual ability to create)

Young's style of play is to defend and run the wing for the occasional catch and finish--one dribble (if that) then finish. And he is exceptional at doing that. We have to remember that he wasn't even an offensive threat in the NBA.

Ennis' style of play is pretty much all-round. Because he's at that higher level, he's better than NBL players at all of those things. The question is, is his level high enough to still be dominant against the next tier of players? Personally, I don't think it is. In my opinion, he needs to be a specialist; which is why Sam Young thrived over there.

In short, the word Mick is searching for is 'specialist'.

I am convinced ENnis will do just fine in the NBA... might not be the next Lebron James but I think he will get decent minutes and stack up pretty nicely.

All fantastic points above, the only thing I'd add is that I haven't seen much of him being a defensive specialist in the last few games... I HAVE seen a maybe not selfish attitude, but close to, in all his games plus a really terrible effort against the Hawks... Like above have said, get him a proper PG and things will improve for the team as a whole... Not, and he will still get his points and fill his stat line, but the team will suffer...

The big question is, do the Kings management have it in them to pull the plug and get a proper PG, when it was their decision to cut their proper PG? A proper PG who already knew the sets, who knew the league, who the team trusted, who the coach had faith in AND who was putting in a pretty solid effort across the board, despite having a not completely reliable shot...

I would say that they don't, which is incredibly disappointing...

From what Ive seen of Young he can create just fine - he was third in the Big East in scoring - he's just still figuring out how to do it in the Kings' setting.

Indeed, but guys who are dominant scorers in a big conference generally go on to be scorers in professional leagues too, have a look around the world!

Young didnt get drafted into the NBA because he was just a hustler, he got drafted because he was a talent and then found a way to survive.

Has only had one great game so far v melb. I think sydney's lack of point guard isn't helping. I'm sure he would slot in nicely on most nbl teams.

#449352 was me.

What I meant was, have a look at him in college. It was literally a man among boys. He was almost fully developed. Also, he had a decent perimeter game coming out of high school apparently, but his college coach played him close to the bucket, so his creativity may have dwindled over time. I do know his jumper used to be a lot more reliable than it currently is. College performance isn't the most relevant anyway--the Kings signed him as a 28 year old.

I saw the cool drive and spin for a left handed layup against Melbourne I think it was, but if he was as creative as you say he is, how come the Kings are scoring at the rate they are? What is their ppg since Young has come here? And what's Young's fg%? It seems to me that he's not getting shots he is totally comfortable with in the NBL.

Anyway, I know the following link covers his draft prospects and summer league stuff, but have a read. Note the strengths and weaknesses column on the left.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Sam-Young-1012/

"Weaknesses
- Offensive creativity
- Ability to create own shot"

This was in his draft profile before they decided to drop their point guard to sign him?

"if he was as creative as you say he is, how come the Kings are scoring at the rate they are? What is their ppg since Young has come here?"

You are showing a lack of understanding of how a basketball team works. One player doesnt make all that happen. As I said in my assessment of Young, given the whole Kings team is unsettled at the moment it might take another month before we get a good read on him.

Certainly if he was playing for Perth and had a full pre-season with the team he would be looking a lot better than he does now.

It's like how Ogilvy's point production has also dropped. He hasn't suddenly become a bad player but one man does not a basketball team make.

Well, not usually, I suppose the Lakers are planning to put that to an empirical test with Bryant though ;)

paul, that was just one small point to contribute to the larger point.

I was the first one on this forum to say that flicking Sanders was a mistake. I understand very well.

Your point is that "he can create just fine".
Mine is that he cannot.

Here is an excerpt from an SMH article after the Perth drubbing:

"I felt like everyone sat back and it was almost like 'We'll sit back and watch the Sam Young show'," Heal said of his Kings, who had their “arses handed to us” by the table-topping Wildcats 98-55.

“That's not how this team has been designed. And it's not how Sam has come in. He hasn't reflected any of those traits. He's here to complement what we've been doing. We're not going to change things for Sam. Once we understand that week by week we'll get better.”

I gather paul knows he's wrong.

Sam young has been selfish and has not showed enough respect for our league. He is not even the best player on the Kings let alone challnge Ennis for the title as leagues best player. As much as I love his signing for the city unless he gets it together in the next few weeks the decision to relase the colonel looks like a ridiculous one.

Sorry Statsheet, hadnt been back in here.

Imports who come into a stable functioning team and have pre-season to iron out the crinks generally perform better than those who havent. That's why I mentioned Perth and pre-season, I thought that was obvious but apologise if I didnt explain well enough.

And yes, I think he is capable of creating his own shot, Ive seen him do it a number of times and finish very well. Once he is operating in a team that all know their roles we'll get a better read of how well he can do it in the NBL.

I'll give it another 3-4 games before I make any real judgement on him or the Kings' new line-up.

Ennis is doing well in the NBL because he's putting in the effort. From the little I've seen of Young, he hasn't been. Again, only seen portions of one game, but I've never seen a player as lazy.

Flynn might not have been a hustle-player for Melbourne and copped a bit for his D from Anstey, but he at least looked like he was keen and trying.

I understand where you were coming from now, but the reason I didn't before is because it wasn't relevant to what we were debating. In response to that statement then, refer to my above comment about the purpose of preseason being to generate offensive continuity (offensive systems), i.e. using a system and all five players on court to create, instead of one.

We were only talking about his ability to create by himself. He arrived in mid-season shape so there's no reason he can't create by himself.

Anyway, fair enough that you think he can create. I just don't see it, nor is there much evidence he can. Agree to disagree.

Fair enough, I look at being able to create a little differently. While what youre talking about is one aspect of it, I also see it as being able to get a shot for yourself or others from designated spots in an offence.