U16 Boys - Knox
Res - Kilsyth

U16 Girls - Eltham
Res - Geelong

U18 Boys - Waverley
Res - Frankston

U18 Girls - Dandenong
Res - Southern Peninsula

I wouldn't rate Reserve Finals as VC - more like consolation finals. Not much better than VJL1.

Didn't the Geelong U16 Reserve Girls lose last Friday - can't be that super strong could they!

Yeah wouldn't say they are super strong, but will still get the job done

Would not consider Geelong U16 girls a certainty. Lost to Altona and only beat Dandy2 by 4 - who only had 7 players.

Either team could take it out.

U16 Girls VC would see Bulleen as favourites - only dropped one game this round to Dandy. Eltham, I believe, still have injury issues.

VC was once two Divisions (Ash and Watson) from memory, major difference now is that 10 teams miss out on playing in Championship, bottom 5 in each of those old divisions now make up what they call VC reserve.

Sometimes a team might just miss out making VC by percentage, so suggesting reserve is little better than VJL1 seems harsh, not only on the teams in reserve, but also those in VJL1 IMO...

Original thread is asking about VC finals, last time I looked it was called VC and VC reserve, so fair enough to talk about both I would think.

Bear, you are right on the mark.

With Deng Adel on his way to the US, it will be interesting.

Bear. How do they split the teams? Is it just straight top five/bottom five from each conference? Do all 20 sides play each other once before the split? seems unlikely but what i am getting at is what if one initial conference is much stronger than another?

@anonymous, no one is denying the fact that VC is the top 10 teams of the competition here, but what is your point with such a comment?

The VC Reserve is called 'V.C.' which stands for Victorian Championship. All 20 teams start in a VC pool and play half the season against each other.

Some teams end up in a tough pool, some have injuries or other hurdles along the way and end up in 6th position so they play in reserve. They could be unlucky not to be in VC in many cases, but the structure is what it is.

If the VJBL wanted to abolish this concept they could start with the top 10 teams after grading, call it VC and have 5 VJL levels below it (no reserve)??

As I have tried to explain, it is about keeping some history and respect for the ASH/WATSON format that recognises the top 20 teams in the state, nothing wrong with that I would think...

@HO, what happens is from grading they split into two pools of 10 each for 9 games and the top 5 from each pool ends up in VC. Then they play another 9 games and finals to determine the winner.

Not the fairest if your team is in a really tough pool I guess, but really no other way I would suggest of doing it.

Grading is long and arduous, sorts out teams for the most part, so the top 20 earn their chance IMO...

It is a way of recognising the top team in VC, whereas in the past there were two top teams in each conference, so this was the VJBL's answer I guess!

Oh, my bad it's actually spelt ASHE & WATSON...

Draws are up for elimination finals and qualifying finals matches. There will be some cracking games, at some interesting venues!

Nice to see the VJBL are re-scheduling some games so the players heading to the AIS this Thursday can still play with their teams upon return next Sunday etc...

Please, anon', go ahead and explain the complexities of the matrix, as I have only tried to cover the post grading phase, but you seem to believe have a better handle on all things VC, so we can't wait for your complete analysis...

#433907

I love attitudes like yours. Completely stupid. I bet you like all of the following statements as well:

- don't have an opinion on whether Gary Ablett is the best footballer in the AFL because you have never played league football
- don't have a view on climate change because you were never here when the climate was not changing
- you can't support gay marriage because you have never been an unmarried gay person

Do you get this? Bear and others are explaining a system - Bear is not trying to be a smart arse or slam anyone... what he has written seems reasonable.

You do not have to be "in the system" to have an understanding of it. I presume you will not vote on September 7 because you cannot possibly understand the intricacies of every issue in the election because you are not an economist or can never become a pregnant? Why not contribute to the discussion in a sensible way?

Adel received a scholarship to attend one of the high schools in the States. He left this morning.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbourne-teenager-deng-adel-lands-us-basketball-scholarship/story-fni0fit3-1226703071382



Bear summed it up nicely. The only thing that is fairly vague is how these 20 teams are divided after the grading - I guess there should be a system for this too. And yes there is a possibility that one conference may be tougher than the other like what happened this year with top three teams going into the finals coming from the same conference.

Thanks for the article @Alpha, I hope he goes well at High School over there, I'm sure he will impress a few scouts.

I believe after the grading phase the teams are placed into either pool of VC according to their record and win/loss ratio from grading matches.

Not sure of the exact process, however it appears the teams to first qualify are split evenly and the following teams also split evenly between the two pools until we get the final number in each.

Hope that makes sense...

VC 16boys- Melbourne
Reserve - Kilsyth
VC18-boys- Waverley but Melbourne and even Dandy on a good night have a sniff with Deng Adel now out of the picture.
Reserve- Frankston Maffra or Sandringham if at full strength have had very few games with decent numbers due to injuries.

Well, thanks for clearing all that up anon' it is much appreciated.

VC 16 boys will be a shoot-out between Knox and Melbourne I think, wait and see on that one.

VC Res 16 boys may prove to be between three teams, Kilsyth, Coburg and Geelong as each of these teams have held their own during the season. Geelong being the stand out, defeating both of the other two who struggle to cope with the combination in height and run of the Supercats...

I think the VJBL need to have a look at how they determine the 2 pools of 10 after grading. Last year's U16 girls and this years U12 girls were both heavily lopsided coming out of grading. I'm sure there's plenty of other examples as well.

My concern with the lopsided pools is more to do with the teams that get through at the bottom of the weaker pool. They usually go through and proceed to get spanked every week. The idea of splitting the pools after the classic was to try to have more competitive matches with the better teams playing each other and less spankings. I also can't imagine it's much fun for the team getting spanked to have to go through that for the next 9 weeks either.

Agree with last years U16 Girls example, only really Melbourne in pool 1 and then pool 2 had Bulleen, Knox, Diamond Valley, Eltham and Southern Pen who all finished in the top 6. Pool 1 didnt really provide any other strong teams other than Melbourne.

You then had Bulleen 2 who missed out as they competed in Pool 2 with the stronger teams, but would have been more competitive than most others from Pool 1 who made it through.

I am sure it happens plenty, not sure about how you would go about fixing it though???

Girls u12 VC will be out of 4 teams - Knox, Bulleen, Nunawading and Dandenong. All 4 teams have beaten each other at least once. It's a real close comp. My tip though is Knox. They have by far the tallest team I have seen and will be very hard to beat because they can also play.

Girls u14 VC will be out of Dandenong and Knox, with Altona as the roughy. Altona don't have any height but they have the best 2 guards in the competition.

First two games played

U18 Men Melbourne def Dandenong by 18
Knox def Diamond Valley by 25

still unconfirmed.
Knox doing fairly well considering a very short bench.

VC Champ:
12 girls - Knox
12 boys - Melbourne

14 girls - Knox but wouldn't count out Altona, Dandenong, Bellarine
14 boys - Melbourne

16 girls - Eltham or Bulleen
16 boys - Knox over Melbourne in the GF

18 boys - Waverley or Melbourne, can go either way
18 girls - DV on a hunch, could go any way with multiple teams

VC Reserve:
12 girls - Broadmeadows
12 boys - Eltham or Mornington

14 girls - Either Bulleen team or Ballarat
14 boys - Eltham or Knox

16 girls - Geelong
16 boys - Kilsyth, Geelong or possibly Coburg depending on the night

18 girls - Southern Pen
18 boys - Dandenong 2, Melbourne 2 or Sandringham

Agree with most of them except u/18 boys VC Reserve. Framkston should be in the mix

Whoops

You're right Go for it. Frankston is definitely in the mix for 18 boys reserve. Very interesting mixed results between the top 4 of 18 boys reserve as well. Will be interesting to see who comes out on top

Melbourne knocked out in the first round of finals in the U16 Girls, did they have injuries? Or just beaten by a better team on the night?

Very few major upsets - most higher ranked teams got the win on friday.

Bulleen out of U/18 girls, a bit of an upset?

It's finals. Slapping the court in frustration to a call should not be a tech foul as long as the player doesn't follow up on arguing the call. Of course the Geelong player wouldn't have been happy but what else was he supposed to do? Passion of the game right there in my opinion but I do acknowledge the fact that in the way he did it may have constituted a tech but I really don't see it as one if there is no follow up argument, seen it many times in U/18s

A play for the ball is a must to get a normal personal foul....It's not the pros where simply grabbing them will do the trick. End of story.

I agree 100% with anon ^ I have witnessed very good games over the years but to only be ruined by calls made which dictate the end of the game. It's a shame to see because both teams know someone has to lose but when their fate is dictated by the refs, of course they don't like it. The kids really deserve better

Back on topic.

It seems Melbourne 2 and Maffra (18 boys Reserves) played on Sunday with Melb 2 coming out on top by 11. It will be interesting how things play out there. Frankston v Sandy will be a treat to watch and Maffra shouldnt have a hard time with Kilsyth.

Keilor in 18 boys Champ could be in a bit of trouble should Knox come out guns blazing.

Sandringham in 14 girls Champ have been knocked out alongside Melb. Sandy was a shock to see go down to LaTrobe. Could be anyone's game right now for semis. Altona shouldn't have too much trouble with DV and Dandenong could be in for a surprise with LaTrobe.

My tips for semis.
Finals time is always interesting! Never know what happens in these games with seasons on the line! Good luck to everyone playing tonight.

U 12

Boys Champ
Dandenong
Nunawading

Boys Res
Hawthorn
Altona

Girls Champ
Bulleen
Dandenong

Girls Res
Eltham
Nunawading 2

U 14

Boys Champ
Kilsyth
Altona

Boys Res
Ballarat
Werribee

Girls Champ
Dandenong
Altona

Girls Res
Frankston
Bulleen

U 16

Boys Champ
Hawthorn
Diamond Valley
It's a shame that Altona weren't able to step up to defend their U 14 Champ title.

Boys Res
Geelong
Werribee

Girls Champ
Knox
Sandringham

Girls Res
Nunawading
Hawthorn

U 18

Boys Champ
Keilor
Dandenong

Boys Res
Frankston
Maffra

Girls Champ
Diamond Valley
Melbourne

Girls Res
Sandringham
Diamond Valley 2

Getting closer to the end of the season. The preliminary finals games were played last night. I watched U18 VC boys, huge upset by Eltham over Waverly and almost the same by Knox against Melbourne - lost it in the last minute.

Anyway, the GF pairs:

U12 boys VC - Hawthorn : Melbourne
VC(r) - Eltham : Mornington

U12 girls VC - Melbourne : Dandenong
VC(r) - Nunawading 2 : Dandenong 2

U14 boys VC - Melbourne : Dandenong
VC(r) - Eltham : Knox/Blackburn

U14 girls VC - Altona : Bellarine
VC(r) - Bulleen : Geelong

U16 boys VC - Melbourne : Knox/Hawthorn
VC(r) - Coburg : Geelong

U16 girls VC - Bulleen/Knox : Eltham
VC(r) - Altona : Nunawading

U18 boys VC - Melbourne : Eltham
VC(r) - Frankston : Dandenong 2

U14 girls VC - Melbourne : Dandenong
VC(r) - Southern Peninsula : Geelong

By trying to make it easier for me, made a mistake, the last pairs are U18

U18 girls VC - Melbourne : Dandenong
VC(r) - Southern Peninsula : Geelong

Gee, Melbourne in 6 out of 8 VC finals.

Melbourne providing very good representation in VC grand finals as usual, kudos to them. Melbourne 18 girls had a scrappy win against Knox despite being the much bigger team and Melbourne 2 18 boys lost a tough one to Frankston 1 down at the State Centre, some very interesting calls made throughout.

Anon, what can you do about Melbourne's 'recruiting' strategy? I mean this all started with the 14 boys group in 2010 where Melb 2 comprised of the majority of the original U/12 VC team. They are in 18s now and look how well Melb 2 did, lost the prelim in VC Res, if anything credit to them for that. It's all competition now so rather than criticise the past, just let the teams battle it out with the teams they have.

Worker - incorrect. Get your facts right.

Melbourne U14-2 of 2010 had 4 kids from their U12 VC team of 2008. There were 3 that made it to the U14-1's. This can and does happen at other clubs as well, especially at that age group with some kids maturing early.

One player of the U12 VC 2008 team stopped playing.

Of that original U12VC 2008 team:

4 remain at Melbourne
1 moved clubs
3 have stopped playing basketball

I doubt that these figures would be vastly different for other clubs. Kids change, some improve, some plateau, some fall out of love with the game, some parents get tired of the politics, expense, travel, etc. All experienced at other clubs also.

Of that 2010 U14VC team:
7 remain at Melbourne
2 stopped playing
1 changed clubs

Again, probably not a lot different to other clubs.

The VJBL rule implemented at the end of 2010 (2 new players per team) supposedly to prevent super teams and Melbourne's dominance looks like it has failed.

Melbourne are still strong and this is 3 years later??

@hogwash61

Do understand that I was not attacking Melbourne's actions over the past few years, in fact I agree 100% with what you have said. I apologise for not making myself clear with my previous post.

To answer your question about that particular Melbourne group being so strong 3 years later, simply put, those players want it. The majority of them clearly want to be the best players they can be. Many of them still being there 3 years later, 3 of which have been with Tigers since under 12s mind you, shows their dedication to the sport. With all the talent in that group having been earned opportunities to represent at State and National levels have been the factor to the vast improvement of their team mates. You could almost send that group to represent the State and you'd still get great representation from them. As you said, the same can be said for other clubs with the plateau of some, the loss of interests of others, etc. I am a big fan of that tigers group who haven't made a State team but still show their dominance in their age group. They have earned the respect of many.

To get back on topic, there is another post regarding the Grand Finals this week, let's all just enjoy some great match ups.