No.

Nobody knows

Maybe

Didn't Steve Dunn say recently that getting a team back to Brisbane was their top priority for next season and they'll do whatever they need to do to make it happen?

New NBL will work to make it happen and have said as much. So, that makes it quite likely. I think, with an eye on legitimacy for TV, the collective clubs will cough up cash/support to get it over the line. Less insistence on a $1m guarantee might make it easier for a new club to get a start too.

no they wont, no one from the private sector is prepared to pull money out of their pockets in Brisbane atm. we have tried almost half a dozen times and tried different models from community based models, to wealthy individuals to most recently taking up to 60 $30,000 investor's. we got a quarter of the way there.

No offence to them but surely if towns like Cairns, Townsville & Wollongong can get a community model of the ground then a major city could do the same.

Sorry, can't remember the link, anon, I think it was one of the more later articles, possibly discussing the need of BA to step in re: tv deal?

The Brisbane situation is an interesting one, as there is clearly no significant commercial support for a team there, so long term, the NBL would have to keep putting good money after bad in, which we know is not good for the league as a whole, and to be honest, apart from the die hards online, is there really the community support? They've had pre-season up there, they've had Boomers games and from memory, none of those were very well attended...

If you can't get good attendance to an event with ALL NBL teams there and also with the national team, especially in a "city" that is supposedly starving for basketball, is it really viable long term? Don't get me wrong, I loved having the Bullets to go see games when I was growing up in that part of the world, but if it's going to require the NBL to fund it long term and there's barely any money for teams already in the league, is that really what we should be focused on?

Melbourne (2) is more important IMO, at least there is a market here!!

It's pretty freaking hard to be a national league these days without at least a representative in each of: Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth (now that we are within spitting of 2m).

So one way or the other, they're going to need to get Brisbane moving again.

I think Melbourne, Auckland then Brisbane, no offence to Perth, just isolation and population factored in...

Community model works for me in Cairns because I can drive my car 10 minutes from home, park in the CBD for free and walk 2 blocks to get to a game. In Brisbane you would have to catch a labryinth of public transport which would probably be running late and have to buy rubbish and expensive food at the game, so a $20 game for 2 hours becomes a $60 outing for 4 hours, and that's just for one person, let alone a family!

Apparently (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Brisbane rates better on television than any other city in Australia, even without an NBL team. So on that basis, the support must be there

^ that's a big call anon don't think our friends in North Queensland will agree but would like to see Brisbane back in NBL

Yeah, merge two passionately rival teams that are about 350km from each other into the one team... turkey...

I went to the Boomers game in Brisbane and there was around 4,400 there. It was at the entertainment centre but you hsve yo remember in Brisbane the Entertainment centre is far away from the CBD.

Sitiveni, you interrupted your campaigning to comment on our little community forum. Thanks mate.

Good one HO! hahaha

Bear, why do you actually think there is a market for a second team in Melbourne, beyond the trite:

- biggest playing population
- need someone to be an opponent to the tigers

Ultimately the Dragons may have proved there was not a market for a second side.

It's vital to a new TV deal that the NBL get another Brisbane team.

And yes Brisbane is 2nd in NBL TV ratings (in capital cities).

2012/13 season:
1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Adelaide
4. Perth
5. Sydney

NZ as a whole obviously rates higher than Melbourne but I don't have their city breakdown figures.

Some games last year Brisbane actually out rated every other capital city. So there's fans there it's just trying to re-connect with them and get them to become Bullets (or whoever they may be) fans.

Sydney Ten/One 5573
Melbourne Ten/One 10794
Brisbane Ten/One 6963
Adelaide Ten/One 6435
Perth Ten/One 5928

Sh*t I posed that too early.. Those are the averages per game per capital city for FTA only (no NBL TV included) for 2012/13.

Why not wait for the Geelong Supercats to build a shit hot stadium and return to the league so we have a second Victorian side and maybe have them involved with the Geelong FC and maybe share sponsors?

No way should Townsville and Cairns merge as we need rivalries.

I hope Bullets return soon and I look forward to seeing if they can get back to filling huge arenas again!

I don't think international games are an indication of how much support a city gives to basketball; went to Boomers vs. China at Perth Arena this year and it was completely dead, half the stadium was packed away and it had no atmosphere compared to a Wildcats game and I blame BA for that!

Would love to hear Newcastle and Hobart/Launceston wanting back in NBL

Nat, are they final ratings figures or just the initial figure that is reported publicly?

@HO, well I see it this way, Melbourne lost South Dragons for reasons other than financial alone, there were a number of decisions and ego's at play there which resulted in the organisation folding.

Melbourne is the sporting capital of this country, no doubt. We have room for NRL, ARL, A-League, AFL, NBL, WNBL and all of these have varying levels of success, but they also have great support, facilities and (yes) rivalry.

Most all of the codes have proven that a second team adds to the overall competition, notwithstanding that the two rugby codes actually play in different comps, the shared venues and facilities does seem to work.

For the NBL to again show some movement forward and gain momentum I believe the Melbourne market needs a second team. Otherwise it will just be more of the same and we won't see the progress we could, that's my take on it mate...

@Proud, Geelong is not ready mate, no chance for at least 5+ years, unfortunately the funding doesn't appear to be just around the corner, it will take some time and Melbourne is in a better position than Geelong in the short term!

Bear. If the Dragons hadn't been losing money hand over fist then I suspect all the other "political" reasons would have evaporated.

The Dragons were peeved at the NBL financial model, and within that model they were losing money in big buckets.

The financial model has not changed - expect any new Melbourne team to face similar challenges and failures that the Dragons had until some time as the league model changes dramatically.

The Melbourne Heart is the best comparison at this point btw, and is struggling, badly.

Two points you have made HO that underpin my thoughts on why Melbourne would be a good place for a second NBL team...

1. The financial model of the NBL

2. Cooperation between the NBL and the clubs (aka franchises)

I am not saying it is Mecca mate, I am saying we are probably the best option for a number of reasons, nothwithstanding the issues of the past or present.

If the NBL is going on a new track, becoming a better run organisation and it wants to become a factor in Australian sport again, then the Melbourne market is a key... IMHO that is!

'In My Humble Opinion'

To use your IMHO, the Dragons got just about everything right, except their branding. They didn't give anyone anything tangible to attach themselves too.

Who or what is South?

Why the Dragons?

They would have been better off to try and revive the Victoria Titans brand (I admit, I'm no expert in how all this IP stuff works, so I'm not sure if this would have been possible.)

The Titans brand at least tried to piece all of the other Melbourne franchises together, with their colours, and their loosely based historical claim that in greek mythology, a Titan was a 'Magical Giant'. Their name being Victoria also gave them a claim to everyone else who wasn't a Melbourne Tigers supporter.

I know that Mark Cowan tried to buy the licence for the Titans, but the NBL ultimately went with Peter Fiddes, who made them back into the Giants.

I think the Dragons spent lots of money on largesse and dropped away badly from their community engagement. They did a great job of getting their fans to take ownership through excellent merchandise (not surprising given Cowan's line of expertise) but they didnt get out into the market.

That Melbourne's crowds at Hisense last season clearly outstripped the Dragons, despite the Tigers neglecting the community for many years previously, tells that story.

Until a franchise has actually linked in with the major associations I dont buy the line that there isnt a market. If someone tries that and fails then Ill agree.

You've nailed it paul.

That's why IMHO, any new Melbourne based team needs to revive the 'Victoria' name for their franchise. Every player, coach, referee, administrator and parent associated with every association, be it large or small, can immediately associate themselves to that name.

And I would ensure that one training session per week, all year round, is conducted at one of the local associations, followed by an autograph/photo session.

Goes without saying that marketing and connecting with your local community is important, not sure that Victoria needs to be a part of that, however if a second team enters the Melbourne market they will have plenty of supporters who are not into the Tigers I am sure...

HO the NBL model has already changed, each club is already $85,000 per annum better off, there is much greater chance of income being split amongst the owners than being garnished by BA for their use.

Kent, that is barely a change in the scheme of things. 85k is not much when you consider the shortfalls of revenue for many teams.

The new NBL needs to be capitalised. It needs a big bank balance to make things work, and it has a skinny tv deal to underwrite it. According to the age, cochrane could not improve their deal.

Also, to my understanding they have no naming rights sponsor.

There will be tension from the get-go about revenue and sharing is my guess.

Tv rights and iinet were paying league bills last year, referees, operations etc. Someone has to pay those this year. There still has to be an operational structure supporting the league.

Paul, I would contend that in the first year the Dragons worked hard at community engagement. i would also suggest that the Tigers were to a large degree papering the house last season - that is also not sustainable - reference Brisbane at Boondall!

Agree re the first year of the Dragons, but they didnt sustain it.

Re the Tigers, from what I know their 'papering of the house' involved selling $40 tickets as two-for-one, which is effectively what the Dragons were charging for a ticket. I would call it good marketing.

@Anon, it has been broadly posted that the NBL could improve in many areas of media promotion or in fact any kind of promotion of our game.

Could take a leaf out of the books of other sports for mind, but cash is alway an issue as advertising isn't cheap and as HO as stated above we can't seem to find a decent, long term sponsor either...

Hurts to say it, but the current Boomers/Opals v Tall Blacks/Tall Ferns series is an example of how poorly promoted the game is.

I heard a show on SEN (Melbourne Sports Radio), where the comentator didn't even know we were playing, OMG!!

@Paul

Those are the final TV figures. I posted some basic ones on the nblwiki but didn't go in depth with game by game ratings or city averages.

Melbourne Heart broke even last year.

@ bear, thanks mate. It's a shame that Geelong can't get that stadium as Geelong do love the us against them mentality in national sports and it solves the problem of what the name the city ie Victoria or South.

Still no naming rights sponsor ? That sucks but maybe they should try getting Rio Tinto as mining companies love to get their name out there as helping Australians and the community!