Thy
Years ago
What will this look like?
Bulleen
Corio Bay
Rig wood
Waverley
Hume City
Eltham
Melbourne
Werribee
Sherbrooke
Diamond Valley
New Teams;
Knox
Albury/wodonga
McKinnon
Another 2 teams They cold have two conferences.
Question, where could they find another 2 teams?
Forget Knox and Albury. They're staying in SEABL.
Really should be asking which if any clubs From big v are strivibg to step up to SEABL one day?
Can't see why a club would want to drop back ....it would pretty much kill your club in the short/medium term
That's a good question, which of the BigV clubs are ready to take the next step upto SEABL? which club will be the next to raise the profile of their program by entering SEABL? The western suburbs desperately need a SEABL standard junior program.
Melbourne Boy
Years ago
McKinnon and Whittlesea will be in SCM next year, they already put things in place over the last off season.
Melbourne Boy
Years ago
SCM will be a 12 team comp, no conferences, unless by some slight chance a SEABL team wants in, but we all doubt that.
Bulleen
Waverly
Ringwood
Corio Bay
Diamond Valley
Werribee
Eltham
Hume City
Melbourne
Sherbrooke
McKinnon
Whittlesea
Two teams will move up from Div 2 to Div 1 and keep it as 2 conferences of 8.
Mildura Hawthorn
Geelong Latrobe City
Sunbury Melbourne Uni
Altona Chelsea
Warnambool Sth Peninsula
Craigeburn Blackburn
Keilor Warrandyte
Melton Camberwell
Oakleigh will join Div 2 and possibly Horsham to come back, making Div 2 remain with 10 teams.
Keysborough
Pakenham
Mornington
Western Port
Shepparton
Casey
Coburg
Maccabi
Horsham
Oakleigh
HO
Years ago
Melbourne Boy.
Earlier in the year there was strong speculation here that the league had decided to drop its D1 Conference experiment and go back to a single group division. Has that gone by the wayside?
VP
Years ago
If Melbourne Boy is correct then thats probably as good a structure you will get for Big V.
I'd like to see Big V introduce Conference Championships then winners play off for Division Championships.
I think it would add value to Big V finals.
Melbourne Boy
Years ago
HO, If there are at least two division 2 teams that have been in talks about moving up to division 1, therefore replacing the two teams moving to SCM, it would take 4 teams to drop down for it to move back to Div 1, 2, and 3 with no conferences, unlikely now.
X
Years ago
Look at how Werribee has steped up into SCM. Good work by them. Both the D1 sides that have been mentioned owuld do well as well.
There is a heap of junior parents at Franston that would like to see their money not wasted on the excessive costs of SEABL and would like the club to look at that. But then again it comes down to egos hey.
Will Horsham be back?
Was there not talk about Collingwood entering the league?
Y move more team up and weaken SCM further??
Two teams were terrible (Sherbrooke & Melb) and a couple not much better (Eltham & Hume) so bringing more teams surely dilutes the product even more!!
It will simply become the same top 4 unless some cash is splashed by the smaller clubs to compete!
VP
Years ago
I think only McKinnon will be added to SCM - it fits with their Womens program in SCW.
Not really sure if Whittlesea will be in SCM for 2014.
Over the last two years the League has added Corio Bay & Werribee to SCM and neither has disgraced themselves - more so they have added to the quality of the competition.
Its up to Sherbrooke & Melbourne improve their rosters to remain compettive in SCM or be considered for relegation by the League.
I not sure there is the talent for two new teams.
werribee were only competitive when Oswald played and he won't be back (college then NBL or Seabl)
The gulf between top 4 & rest was big....there was an occasionally upset but few an far between...just don't want it to become like English premier league were the button half are really just hoping to knock off a top team once in the year and there better players eventually get recruited to the bigger teams in SCM to be successful
HO
Years ago
Sherbrooke have won 8 games in two seasons, they present a borderline case for continuation. Melbourne however have won 5 in that same time - surely their needs to be discussion about them being relegated.
The league should be considering a range of things when adding new teams - strength of junior programs, financial capacity of the organisation, quality of venue etc.
Lets be honest, there are very few venues amongst the SC teams really worthy of hosting the top tier of state based Basketball...
Unfortunately all the best venues in Victoria are the homes of the SEABL clubs.
SC as it stands is really Division 1 if you look at it from a true state wide perspective.
HO
Years ago
#430799
To some extent I agree - both on venues and standard.
There are some poor SEABL venues as well - Nunawading, Frankston come to mind.
But accepting second rate venues in order to get a team in the league is poor thinking.
Waverley, Ringwood and Hume City I would imagine are the best of the current SC venues?
HO
Years ago
And I should add, there would be some D1 venues (Warrnambool?) that are better than any current SC venues.
Broadmeadows is the best SC venue by a mile, but they're a former SEABL club. Nunawading and Frankston are pretty poor by SEABL standards but both are better than Waverley and Ringwood.
If Waverley it had a second grand stand behind the players bench it might be equal to Frankston or Nunawading but as it stands its a pretty bare venue.
Nunawading isn't the best venue but at least the put a strong team on the floor....same cant be said for teams with poor venues in big v.
Out of the SCM team Waverley or Hume are the only two venues even close to seabl standard.
Waverley coud maybe step up to seabl if they had the desire as there venue is passable but a certain blokes ego wouldn't like that!
Hume have the venue but the organisation behind the scenes is a rabble as they were a once proud seabl club and coud be only Seabl club in north west melb if they got it together off court.
At least bullock can get results in both men's and women's.....pretty sure Milner relies on his daughter for success
Happy Days
Years ago
Were the games on the weekend sudden death or best of 3?
HO
Years ago
I am with Paul. Nunawading might have more seats, but its other facilities are not great.
@Ho - agree they need a coat of paint and some modernising at Nunawading....but there are worse in the lower leagues.
Alex
Years ago
agree that hume is the only big v club that could play seabl atm. All of the other venues are terrible, yes including waverley.
Hume venue could host SEABL, the club couldn't.
Tiger Watcher
Years ago
If hume off court got it together they could pull the talent from the North West of Melbourne and add two good imports all of a sudden your competitive in SEABL.
Agree TW, but it's been tried before with stanch resistance from management who are content with apathy and mediocrity.
HO
Years ago
ok, originally my point was not to set up a list of comparisons between BigV and SEABL club venues.
My point was that the BigV Board need to look just beyond what someone promises them a team will be like before they enter championship. Venue is one of those issues.
I agree with the sentiments about the majority of BigV venues, but how is the BigV board driving change, even incrementally, that improves those venues and raises the bar for all? How are the BigV Board looking beyond a team list at junior development programs and VJBL success to determine if a team elevated to the championship level has a long term future there - based on strength of program etc.
As Eltham showed, you can pour cash in for a year or two and then fall apart quickly. In these scenarios, the risk is mitigated if the you know you have great juniors coming through who can step up when the cash grabbers leave.
It's unrealistic to expect the current State Champ clubs to improve their facilities much beyond what they are now, most need a dozer through them and fresh building.
Lets be realistic, those clubs in State champ are the second tier clubs in Victoria so its only reasonable to assume their venues will be the same.
I agree there should be a push to get them improved but there's only so much you can do as a small to medium sized association.
Sammy
Years ago
Bringing in clubs like McKinnon to state championship level really does lower the standard of the league and also gives it less meaning.
Too many clubs in state champ = terrible a standard, for what is essentially the victorian conference of the ABA
HO
Years ago
Its not unrealistic if managed incrementally.
- progressively get benched seating changed to fold down seating to improve comfort for patrons (emphasis on progressively)
- improve change room amenities for players
- improve sound systems and scoreboards
- cater for your sponsors and past players in your venue in a different way
- improve the game night experience for VIP's and sponsors (better catering, etc.)
However in terms of entry, the BigV should not be accepting sub-standard venues before entry into BigV. The visitors changeroom at Eltham used to be a storeroom - so tell Eltham before they join the league that this is unacceptable and its a condition of entry that they have a solution to that problem.
When Dandenong and Hume City joined BigV it was partly because at the time, the league was seen as a viable alternative to SEABL. One factor in that was you played in reasonable venues (Warrnambool, Shep, Sandy, Ringwood, Waverley) most of the time. Now the number of poor venues outweighs the good. So if the league wants to raise the bar, make some hard calls and give associations a timeline for improvements. Its not all about seating numbers, although venues should be minimum 500.
And #430856, you do realise that most medium size melbourne clubs (Waverley, Hawthorn, Hume type organisations) have larger participation levels than the biggest country (Seabl) clubs (Geelong, Ballarat, Albury etc.)?
Q
Years ago
Is the need for extra seats realisitc? how many people attend SCM games?
ANon
Years ago
How can anyone say Waverley is a good stadium? Their Court 1 is no better than Nunawading.
Tiger Watcher
Years ago
I think most people accept the Big V as the Division below the SEABL so most clubs will have lesser facilites.
sherbrooke - Not even a timber floor!
eltahm - Public Toilets as change rooms...half the time the stink or are very dirty.
Corio Bay - Small vistors room that you pretty much can't fit into, Court is pretty dark aswell
Werribee - Better Venue in League
Waverley- Not a bad venue there are worse around
Bulleen - Pretty poor venue small change rooms & court has dead spots were it just won't bounce back
Melbourne - rims are different, court is uneven with humps in it & change rooms are like elthams
Ringwood - One of the better venues in league
Diamond Valley - Venue is ok
hume City - Had reno's done/going on and will be ok once completed.
The biggest key with bringing in another team is the poorer product on the floor and with the gap from top to bottum huge it is concerning.
Were will the talent come from?? It will require deep pockets or you end up like Melbourne/sherbrooke and will struggle to win games which is a bad look!
KEEP HOOPin
Years ago
Lets get on the Mildura road trip so put them in SCM just for the overnight stay in Mildura.
TW, if you called State Champ Div 1 would there be as much angst about the venues?
I agree they're poor but State Champ is not really a true State Championship because there are 9 other Clubs all with stronger teams and much better venues in Victoria that would realistically make up what should be a 10 team State championship with only 1 of the current BigV SC clubs included.
Sting what?
Years ago
To say all SEABL teams are better than the top 4 in the Big V is a cop out. The top 4 teams in Big V would certainly compete in SEABL.
The real difference between SEABL and Big V is the depth of the competition. Big V drops off after the top 5 where in SEABL the talent is quite evenly spread.
It's not a fact, the best of Big V would slot comfortably into the SEABL.
HO
Years ago
TW, you have blown me away a little there. What sort of floor does Sherbrooke have? Their Monbulk venue certainly has a timber floor.
Yep, they'd slot comfortably into the bottom of the ladder.
Big V play 18 games a season V SEABL 28.
They have no double headers or interstate road trips V 7 for SEABL.
It take a few seasons for players and clubs to acclimatise themselves to dealing with these differences alone both from a management perspective and athlete conditioning and preparation perspective.
Bench depth is another significant difference which is part of dealing with the road trips and double headers.
Both are completely different leagues from a preparation and professionalism point of view which is why on paper the top 2 or 3 BigV starting rosters might compete in isolation (im not that convinced either) but over a full season would get found out.
HO
Years ago
#430903
I probably agree with you but you overstate it, particularly looking at it from a Victorian point of view.
- most vic sides have one really tough "flying" road trip - tassie, Brisbane and Canberra can be/are singles
- BigV certainly has double headers with home away or away away type combos (its not like CABL)
I doubt these days any BigV sides could consistently compete in SEABL. Prior to the split I reckon there were a few that would have given it a fair crack but back then the BigV had more country trips and more games.
How's Bendigo's bench depth going?
Doesn't appear to effect their standing but i guess it helps when they have such a talented first 5.
Sting what?
Years ago
HO, this season SCM didn't have double headers which is disappointing as it is the premier league in Big V.
The whole argument with SEABL v Big V would be great if they still had the ABA tournament. It would create more debate but also end some of the outlandish comments.
The D league and Youth league joining up has shown that SEABL and Big V juniors coming through is a bright future and as a matter of fact the Big V teams were stronger overall. Both had their opinions prior to which league was better. I understand u/23s changes a lot with College players and some elevated to senior level.
One of the fundamental draw cards of SEABL is the double headers and interstate trips.
Trust me road trips and double header weekends present a huge challenge for professionalism and preparation that single game suburban based competitions simply cant offer.
That's not bagging BigV State championship, it's just stating the obvious.
It took Brisbane Spartans a few seasons with an absolutely stacked roster to adjust to the difference.
If people can't see that this is a fantastic incentive for their juniors to strive for and taste a "professional" playing environment then we've lost our way.
BigV and state based competitions offers a great opportunity for the smaller clubs to compete at an elite level, it needs to be there and supported.
Tiger Watcher
Years ago
Big V SCM - Is almost not a league with only 18 games...it is pretty poor when really and it makes it all a bit mickey mouse!
The top 1 or 2 teams could compete but would be in the lower half of the league….a good yard stickis players moving between the leagues….Eric Williams was a "solid" import in SEABL but not bought back & in the Big V he is dropping 45pts and looking like MJ's second coming!
Another Key difference is also the style of play which would hurt a number of Big V Teams over the course of a season.
Big V play= small ball league - less athletes - fewer imports – No NBL players – Lacks the best outside NBL talent like Macdonald, Herbert, Lang etc – No depth across the league makes it like a bush league!
I’d even say the worse performing SEABL teams would touch up the best Big V teams –
Example: KNOX: Carter, Massingale, Strong, Phillip, Hill – 2 guys with significant NBL experience - 2 with limited NBL experience – 1 very good import
Waverley: Platnik, Threatt, Arkell, Blannerhasset, Kellaher – 1 guy with limited NBL experience - Solid Big V players
CASE CLOSED!
HO
Years ago
#430908/Sting What
I didn't realise BigV didn't have any double weekends this year - in the past it always has. Stupid fixturing if that is the case.
As i said earlier, when the league had Warrnambool, Shep etc it was tougher - and teams liked the overnight stays and the like.
Brisbane is a poor example, they came from a league that had torturous road trips compared to SEABL - 8 -10 hour bus trips and the like and punishing Sat/Sun double headers.
paul
Years ago
Back when there was the national champs I think many people were surprised how much parity there was between the top teams from the various leagues. I was.
Having said that, Big V definitely isnt as strong as it was then and is clearly below SEABL, but I dont think the gap is quite as big as some people are making out.
More talk going on now that there's several teams considering a move from SEABL to BigV next season. Team include Frankston, Knox, Kilsyth & Albury-Wodonga.
If true, this would completely change both SCM and SEABL. Thoughts?
Anon
Years ago
FACT: Bandits not even considering leaving SEABL.
People maybe getting confused with Wodonga Basketball Association exploring Big V options
Yes. Wodonga IS looking at Big V. But at a lower level most likely D2 and maybe for 2015
McKinnon is applying and has unofficially been told all good. Southern Pen have decided not to apply. They are in talks with a current key NBL player and an recent ex-NBL player, I guess it was only a matter of time until Marcus put his connections to good use. Their import is returning.
Knox will be playing SCM next year. Nunawading the next closest to making the jump. Frankston and Ballarat have both discussed it at various levels but will be staying put. Frankstons concerns are based upon the fact that they no longer are producing SEABL quality players from within. All other SEABL clubs not at all interested.
Sherbrooke will be dropping down to D1, Eltham have also discussed this and are in discussions with the league.
So on what facts do you make the comments about what these clubs will do . No way nunawading leaving seabl .
Latest news is that some clubs want to run teams in both seabl and bigv - maybe this is what is making some people think clubs want to move out of seabl ?
Happy Days
Years ago
More rubbish....Lets see how many SEABL teams move to BIG V.Answer is ZILCH!!!
Agree with Happy Days ... you got to wonder in who's interest it is to throw out all this rubbish about teams moving out of seabl ?
This time every year the same rubbish gets thrown around about teams leaving SEABL, usually in some kind of tall poppy situation by narrow minded BigV members who hate the thought there is a better competition above BigV.
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