He definitely puts in a lot of effort. I've always found it an interesting contrast between the constant flow of information from SEABL with their one man media team and the prolonged silence from BA/NBL last season despite having a cast of thousands listed in communications and marketing. I'd love to know what some of these people are paid.

I'd also love to know just what SEABL hopes to gain putting itself into BA control. A huge mistake in my opinion.

This post is not personal. I do not wish to mark down Ed. I have said before SEABL media do a good job of what they do. Its what they do that is the problem IMO.

However, the myth of SEABL media outshines the reality.

Those who have seen my posts about media in both BigV and SEABL know I have criticised both fairly evenly in recent times. The BigV for being too "jokey" and in-house and the SEABL for its lack of innovation, and understanding of its own market.

It would be interesting for someone to explain what they think the SEABL's media strategy is (not what they produce) and tell me how the production meets the strategy.

Second, is what SEABL are doing in media measurable and are they hitting targets - more column inches, more views, more radio chat etc etc? Are the media efforts definitively hitting the target in terms of, is there a greater awareness of the SEABL, are star players known in their own communities etc etc (a host of other measures).

Over the last two AJC events, BA have significantly stepped up their coverage, and quite innovatively, of the AJC. Honestly, those efforts outshine what the leagues have been doing in terms of the nature and timeliness of the coverage, and meeting a strategy. The AJC have clearly said our coverage will be to engage on social media, and we will build multiple elements that support that, and they have largely hit the mark.

The leagues have lost their way. They are self-indulgent in their coverage - people getting heir heads on camera to tiny audiences - rather than meeting the demand that their customers, the clubs, need them to meet.

Here is an example, live-streaming of games is hitting between 200-300 people per game, occasionally more, but often less. If it was 600- 800 consistently, you might have a market, in the context of the SEABL. But when you are getting less than half the people watching your live-streaming effort than are at most games, how is that truly adding value for effort to the objective of your media unit, which should be about drawing people into games, building avidity etc.

Someone may be doing a great job, but is doing that great job actually being effective? Are they doing the things they want to do (ie, they like doing) as opposed to the things the league needs them to do?

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Settle. The questions I have asked are reasonable and fair. I have not questioned Ed's work ethic. I have actually stated that what the SEABL produces is good.

I find it interesting that you have NEVER met Ed but KNOW he goes above and beyond.

I am sure he does, the vast majority of people I know who work in basketball do - coaches, refs, administrators, team managers, etc.

People on this forum are always spruiking the need for the sport to be run in a businesslike manner. Guess what, I am asking the businesslike questions - sorry if that upsets you.

I have not made it personal - neither should you.

HO makes some valid points but i think that is big picture stuff in the scheme of things.Ed is one man band and his brief is set by the stakeholders.I know in the area i work in we are doing similar things to what Ed is doing and very successfully so.You have to start somewhere and it will take time to build the numbers.

I agree, and servicing your fan base and getting them more involved is important work too.

Correct HD. But the big picture stuff we call strategy and the content stuff is execution.

Once again, according to this forum, the SEABL is the greatest run league in the world outside of the NBA and the Adriatic League. So of course they will have both their strategy and execution ducks in a row, unless of course, the myth exceeds the reality....

What I want to know is what are the media priorities for the leagues? What are they spending 60K or so a year on media for? What are the outcomes the clubs need?

And I'll stand by my comment that the league's have become self-indulgent - in part because this is the much easier stuff to do. Its much easier to do in house internet shows and point to all the hard work that goes into that than be back room hound who is actually working wider media outcomes.

As for building numbers, the BigV is a classic case of getting the strategy right and then the execution wrong. They started with a strategy of reaching their own player and club audience through a once a week internet show that was regularly getting 600+ views (as Paul said, this sort of stuff is important work). They became so imbibed with the success of this - fan mail, public love and adoration... etc etc that they went to a format of producing multiple internet shows, split their audience and now have a fragmented viewing with much fewer people watching multiple shows.

Right strategy, poor execution. And more than anyone, the BigV have made an artform of getting their own heads on the screen - almost tragic.

The SEABL's strategy HAS to be different to BigV's. The latter is a mass participation league, the former is meant to be the #2 (semi) professional league in the country, aspiring to be Australia's D-league. Why is the SEABL (preview shows) basically doing what the BigV does therefore - and generating poor audience numbers doing it? Is it because they reacted to the BigV's initiatives rather than sticking with their own strategy?

Its about bang for buck. Do you want the very passionate Ed Reddin spending four hours every Saturday night doing commentary on poorly followed live streaming because a tiny representation have asked for it or do you want the very passionate Ed Reddin constantly working the larger media outlets reminding them about where the SEABL sits and how meaningful its clubs are in their communities? Because ultimately, even though he goes "above and beyond", he can't do both effectively and you have to work out which one serves your strategic requirements better. And in terms of bang for buck, one major article in the age or sun heralding the SEABL's achievements is probably worth 1000 live-streaming efforts to an already converted audience.

Happy Days.....next time you want to praise someone - send them a text.

Any positive sentiment given around here is always going to get howled down by the keyboard kings.

Sorry for being positive but give credit where credit is due.Working in the AFL space i'd be happy to utilize his services with some of our local clubs.

That was tongue in cheek HD....I agree he is very good at what he does with the resources presented.

It just disappoints me that whenever something positive is written about someone it is howled down by critics.

And I am looking to improve my investments in Telstra...so please, text him next time!

There must have been some posts made and deleted here. Can anyone tell me what the gist of them was?

HO...some interesting comments. In terms of the numbers watching the stream, it may not be as simple as you suggest. I know what the business case was for the streaming of games from Waverley. And in the first year we have more than achieved what we had wanted to do including getting noticed by the mainstream media. It is not as simple as the numbers you see watching the Youtube VODs. You are right it is about bang for buck. I am one who believes that SEABL's approach is right. Do it yourself!

The media, increasingly centralised is not interested in publishing stories about local issues. Now with the agreagation of the local papers into the mainstream pay for view sites local clubs are fighting each other for column inches in even the local parper. That leaves us with only one option. To generate the outlet ourselves.

This mirrors a trend that is being seen world wide. There is increasing interest in local community based broadcasting as people realise that the Murdoch's of this world are not going to give us the opportunity to communicate to our audience through their publications, and the viewer/reader numbers of those plummet.

I also think you are right about the BigV being the innovator. Yes not all oftheir initiatives have worked as well as hoped, but is you look at teh cobines figures, from the overall views on the VOD, hits on the website, twitter feed and facebook you woudlhave to say that they are serving their audience extremely well. Also you need to look at the Overtime magazine and involvelement in other outlets such as SmashFM where both clubs and the League contribute many hours each week.

In both Leagues, there is a limited budget for media and promotion. I would argue that both are producing quaity results. Can things be done differently...Yes. The important thing is that both leagues are trying! And delivering! The audience figures that both Leagues are generating are in line with experoience all around the world! Or better. Lets all get behind what they are doing. That is really the only way it will improve.

Falcons TV. Thanks, a reasonable response.

I am absolutely ok with the leagues being content generators, and understand the changing media landscape that demands that, particularly the social media channels you mention. I have previously talked up the BigV magazine as one of the best things being produced by ANY basketball league in Australia.

Doing it yourself is not doing it right however. What I want to know, and people involved in SEABL and BigV clubs should be able to tell us (because the strategy should be that transparent) is that the leagues are trying to achieve with their media.

The best guess I can make about BigV is that they have given up trying to get consistent, wider media coverage and have gone for a totally introspective approach - that is, we will service our players and clubs, and anything else we get is a bonus.

That is not to say they do not get wider coverage, but the focus of league media is clearly not that wider coverage.

The SEABL are a different beast.

They are also supposedly our #2 league, notionally the development league for the NBL and their focus is clearly elite.

But they have adopted the same strategies as the BigV. Internalised, do it yourself coverage which can only be preaching to the converted.

And to vigorously disagree with you, the numbers are that simple. 200-300 people watching a streaming of a game is an poor ROI at SEABL level when many venues (not Nunawading or Frankston obviously) pull upwards of 700 to a game. Preview shows getting between 100 and 200 views is a poor return, and similar numbers viewing player of the week highlights, bumped probably only by the efforts of local club social media, is poor. And some of these will be the same rusted on person who watches every video every week. You can't compound the views and say wow, we had 200 for the MPS and 200 for the WPS and 200 for each POW so we are at 800 views.

The internalised coverage might be good quality, it might be interesting, but if I turned up to the AGM and said to the clubs, we are spending $$$$$ of your money every year talking to a weekly audience of 200-400 already rusted on SEABL followers - would the clubs be satisfied that with?

However, the internalised SEABL stuff is not broadcast quality, so it can't be repackaged and shipped around to various TV outlets to run as say 60 second Monday night sport segments, which is a way execution of the current strategy MIGHT achieve ROI.

I say this again in the context that the SEABL is not the BigV, and should be setting the bar much higher given their own perceptions of where they sit in the market.

You have misplaced my point about BigV. They started with a good strategy and good execution, but became obsessed with the delivery channel and therefore broke the execution. Its not about things not working as well as they could have - they broke it - they forgot what their strategy and execution plan was! It's not irrecoverable, they could go back to their original, reasonably good quality format.

And finally. Your call to action is lovely and might be ok for BigV, but not for SEABL. For a start, show me how the audience figures are in line with what is happening elsewhere. Mark Neeld was "trying" as well btw. I don't think you have any evidence to say they are delivering - you too are in love with the delivery channel, and that is cool, but it does not mean it is having the effect it needs to have. People saying they really "enjoy" the Preview show for example is not adequate. the priority in that role cannot be about pleasing a tiny audience, its about getting the message to a constantly wider one.

Again, for all the people out there who cannot read, I think the people who do these jobs at the leagues are probably high quality people doing a good job - I have never called them names or said anything other. However, I question what they are being asked to do and suspect that is not their fault as no one is gearing the execution to a strategy.

HO. Great to get serious discussion on here. Thanks too for your response. Let me start with our strategy. For our Association, with over 5000 people through the stadium door, the intention of doing oursleves was first and foremost a communication exercise for our community. I see nothing wrong with that as a way to include and enthuse the audience. As I said before it is becoming more and more difficult to get coverage in mainstream and local media, and if you read all of the analysis of viewing patterns, the audience for mainstream channels has fragmented (http://www.smh.com.au/business/ten-boss-shows-appetite-for-risk-20130726-2qpwr.html)

Not having talked with the guys at BigV specifically about this but my understanding is, like our club, they have not given up trying to get media attention, (see the number of referenced articles on the website, the annual Journalist award, the assesment of each club on its efforts/success in generating media interest and stories) rather they have taken the front foot in producing material that will meet the needs of their audience. And when you look at the number of times that contents is referenced or reproduced that approach seems to be working. Clubs are then encouraged to try their own approaches with the successes being shared to others. Much in the same way that the AFL/NBL/WNBL/NRL etc competitions do with their stakeholders.

In terms of the viewing numbers, I am involved in an International Internet Broadcasters Association and can tell you that unless you are in a very high profile sport and grade, the numbers that the SEABL and BigV media generates is on par, and even envied, by similar sports broadcasters all around the globe. Would we like a bigger audience. Absoloutely. But to get that we have to start by preaching to the converted. In the initial learning phase, quality will be variable as host broadcasters learn what will work and what won't, so you need a loyal audience that will forgive the issues (Note the response to NBL TV) then once that is in place you can start to grow. Next, the product need to be there consitently. I was amused by the outrage on this forum when the BigVTV went up late a few weeks ago.

You assert that 200-300 additional viewers is not a good result when the stadium gets 700 in attendance. Really? This is an excellent return. The real issue here is not the numbers but how to take advantage of it. Can it be monetised? On a side note on numbers, SEABL uses the Youtube live stream...and that is only available to broadcasters with a very large number of subscribers/viewers, so YouTube must see their figures as significant. And yes in the new media you do count the total number of views across all of your offerings, Live, VOD, Audio only etc. in order to determine your ability to pull an audience.

You are correct that the SEABL. BigV and indeed FalconsTV is not broadcast quality. It does not need to be and the costs would be prohibitive to achieve that. But in terms of ROI, you ned to look at the individual organisations business case to see whether they have met their targets. I can say for us, so far it has been exceeded. I know that for BigV the media content is constantly evaluated by the member clubs and if they were not satifiied with the ROI things would change. I assume the same for SEABL.

Ed does a great job in his media role at SEABL. We need more of his type in the sport.