The referees this year SEABL have been hopeless. No improvement witnessed and same bad refs running around who've been running around for years. Needs a shake up.

Interesting round of results...

Dandy struggling for consistent performance
Nunawading on a bit of a streak
Bendigo drop 1 "Finally" after a long hot streak.
Geelong mixing there form...and look a little out of sorts. (On the offensive end looks like to many Chiefs and not enough Indians!)
Mt Gambier - Got a lucky break, but you need a lucky result or too during the long season.
Knox – the weekend sums up there season really, not sure what they will do but you'd expect changes will happen in the offseason.
Nw Tassie – starting to look solid…big closing few weeks ahead with games against other South Conference contenders.
Kilsyth – Pick up a nice scalp…now to put it together for a few weeks in a row….they do look more dangerous now Narburgs gives them a 3rd scoring option in the guard rotation.
Frankston – Mixing form but are right in the hunt, hopefully they can string a few together and they can get the coach back on deck (The coach has missed about 6-8 games this year due to U19 NT this has hurt them alot)
Brisbane – Need to string a few together and Kenny needs to produce away from home for them to slot into 4th ahead of Frankston & Dandy.

I went on a bit of a rant about the Knox vs Mt Gambier "decison" on Andthefoul.net - http://andthefoul.net/archives/6730

The league released a statement saying that yes the call was wrong but due to bylaws the decision stands. But wow....it just should not have happened in the first place! No discussion between the THREE refs, no discussion with the score bench, nothing! Crazy.

I think it's pretty obvious that SEABL made the only decision that they could in the end. The officials made a mistake on the night but unfortunately mistakes happen in every game. It's just a shame that this one cost a team a win.

Albury/Wodonga finally found a way to win a close one after doing all they could to lose again. 12 point lead at three quarter time but then needed a clutch three from Jermel Jenkins with 2.8 seconds left to pull out a one point win.

This season has been a real head scratcher for the Bandits and a very frustrating one for their supporters.

watching SEABl for over 25years that is the worst decision I have ever seen.What made it worse was seeing all 3 refs sprint from the court like gazells.They knew their decision was wrong and didn't want to hang around.
I agree with Ozhoops the reffing this year has been absolutely aweful but when you continue to give refs like Clark and Andreolli pressure games that standard is not going to change or improve.

Sorry - that last post was me.

How can they protest it? The referees left the court immediately after the game, no discussion allowed. What can they do about the league's decision to let it stand? It's not like Knox were in front by 1 point and the shot counted to give Mt Gambier the win by 1 point. Scores were tied. Which means that the game SHOULD have gone to overtime. It didn't, and there's no way to know which team would have won in five minutes of extra time. So what does a protest involve? Demanded a rematch? Getting Mt Gambier to drive eight hours to play five more minutes on another day?

Couldn't agree with Ozhoops more...

The league gets better every year with one exception... The referees. Who's in charge of them, something must be done. It's holding the league back.

The Knox situation is an example of what goes on in EVERY game, poor communication and no consistency shown from the ref teams. These are the two most important aspects of being a good ref and they are the greatest weakness at this time.

Beth, your questions are not my questions I think. The only thing I know is that if an issue is "protest-able" then the captain of the team wishing to protest must sign and indicate that on the scoresheet, before the referees sign off the scoresheet - that is the rules of basketball.

The ramifications of a protest are another issue - different debate.

My question is, "legally", that is, within the rules, is the mistake (that the league has now acknowledged) able to be heard under a protest - had that protest been correctly lodged. Or is it not considered a "correctable error" by the rules of the sport?

Lets try and look at the positives here. Ben Allen finally made a shot in the keyway. Maybe the refs were shocked by the outcome?

#427973

Thanks. So my next question. Even if it is not a correctable error, can it be protested? Again, I am asking if ONLY correctable errors can be protested.

(i'd also like to understand better some examples of a correctable error!)

I suppose a further question is, if Knox had protested legally, would it have just been thrown out as non nprotest-able or would it have needed to be heard?

I ask this because we rarely see a true protest in this country (if ever). That is, a protest that meets the requirements of the rules of lodging a protest. People question results and scores at Domestic all the time and get them amended, but not as a result of a formal protest.

provide referees with video clips of their action
FIBA U19M - Australian referee uses FIBA steps to improve work
PRAGUE (FIBA U19 World Championship) - Australian referee Christopher Reid has been one of the many beneficiaries in FIBA's concerted efforts to improve the preparedness and game-calling of its officials before and during global competitions.

As part of a new initiative by FIBA's Referee Department, Reid and his refereeing colleagues at the 2013 FIBA U19 World Championship were provided with a package of material on the organisation's intranet system accessible to the referees prior to their arrival in Prague.

"The material gave us good guidelines in regards to points of emphasis we were to follow going into the tournament. And it came prior to the one-day meeting before all the games," said Reid, who is officiating in his second FIBA World Championship following the 2012 FIBA U17 World Championship in Kaunas.

"It was good to get us all on the same page prior to even coming to the tournament."

The package includes documents and articles on a wide range of refereeing issues, going from game management to preparing yourself and being ready for the event mentally to specific information about game issues such as how hand-checking will be addressed.

"I will definitely be taking the information from the intranet site to Australia and the (Australian domestic league) NBL and pass it along to our NBL manager and pass it on to further leagues down the track," said Reid, who next season will be entering his ninth as a referee in Australia's domestic top flight.

The other major purpose of the FIBA intranet system is to provide referees with video clips of their action during the game. The clips can be put into the system in time for the referees and instructors to discuss directly after the game.

"The clips emphasize some good things as well as areas to improve upon. That's been really good to develop and give you things to take back after the tournament and put into play in local games," said Reid.

"It's really good to highlight not only the calls but also the movement around the court."

With the tournament drawing to a close, Reid has already identified a few areas in which he needs to work on his craft, thanks to the video feedback and post-game discussions with the instructors.

"You will never have a 100 percent perfectly called game. That's what we are all aiming for. But there will always be the odd one here or there. It's about minimizing those," said Reid, who would like to work on his positioning on the court and clock management among other areas.

"Those are things I can take back into my local country and work on."

Reid's big goal is like many of the players whose actions he is refereeing.

"Tournaments like this are what you aim to get to. The ultimate goal for any referee like a player would be to go to the Olympics and World Championship for Men and Women," said Reid.

#427977

Ok. An official "protest" is not made to the referees. It is documented on the scoresheet after the game but before the referees sign the scoresheet. The Captain of the team wishing to protest must sign the scoresheet to indicate they are lodging a protest.

The protest is then heard by some form of jury.

If the referees sprinted off straight after the game then I can only assume they did not sign the scoresheet at that point, as the scorers would still be finalising it. If that is the case, Knox had plenty of time to lodge a protest formally.

if a team wishes to protest, and the referees have not signed the scoresheet, then my understanding is that the referees cannot stop the captain lodging the protest.

How many SEABL teams are aware that this is the official way to lodge a protest? What happens if they do lodge a protest? Who is the jury? WHen does the protest get heard? Being a game that would have gone to overtime, the outcome is the same. The protest is heard (assumingly at a later date since the referees were clearly not about to hear any protests on that night) and concluded that the shot should not have counted, but nothing can be done about it now. Tough titties.

TheSituation is correct - Ben Allen made a bucket in the paint.

Pretty impressive

forget protests just improve the referees, why do you think they run from the court!!!!
because they will be able to have a (quote)enter into dialogue with the Coach?

The whole scenario related to how a team/coach can get a so called bad decision rectified or at least be heard at the time is always subject to the attitude of the officials and the only time I have seen this kind of situation be resolved at the time is when a decent and competent court supervisor/referee supervisor is present.

In SEABL they probably only rely on the head referee to do the right thing and use common sense, so if he ran off with the other two before the coach could be heard, yup it is tough titties...

Protests won't work because the system is not set up to help a coach or a team it is all geared up towards the referees, they can make reports and do all kind of nasty things to players and coaches, but the system is not there to protect the integrity of the team/player/coach or result IMO!

This thread is an example of how hard it is and how confusing the system is, so how in hell can a coach or team do anything about it at the time of the mistake?

Too late by then because common sense officiating is not applied...

if you a true basketball fan dont worry take a look at the ashes even with high tech + professional refs you can still miss outs. if you want to ( pay for )provide security for the refs then i am sure they will want to hang around and enter into dialogue with the Coach?

Beth,

You seem to think I am haranguing you about this. I am not.

I am asking questions because I do not know the answers. I know for example how a protest should be lodged, but I am not fully clear on the circumstances in which it can be.

I don't care about the result of the game, I find the issue of how it was managed interesting.

Ignorance at this level is not an excuse. If a coach, running a semi professional team, in Australia's supposed second tier league, does not know both how to lodge a protest and the conditions under which it can be lodged then I would suggest he/she is deficient in their responsibility to their team.

Further, if the SEABL, according to most posters here, Australia's most "professionally administered league" does not have a process for managing a protest (even if that process is just to dismiss it) then they are also deficient - badly and possibly also legally liable.

Now the SEABL may have written protests out of the their rules. If they have I would be surprised, but it is a possibility.

There were officials of the league in attendance at the game, including the league competition manager. Australia has qualified scoretable officials and SEABL demands this for their games. Had a protest been lodged, and needed to be heard, it might have decided that the overtime should be played. BTW, I am pretty certain referees do not hear a protest - like a tribunal, they would give evidence to it but they don't hear it. One of the options may have been that the protest be heard then and there by the league officials.

But you can't just say "no one knows how to lodge a protest, no one knows how to hear it, so even if it had happened the result would be the same".

This result might be the difference between Mt Gambier or Nunawading or Hobart topping their conference as you have pointed out, and all the benefits that come with that.

And it is just inane to lay all the blame for this on the quality of the officials generally - completely irrational and stupid. The official had a howler, even Dickie Bird used to have them. It happens. No amount of training and review is going to stop an official having a howler.

And again to be clear. I do not know if this type of matter is protestable. Someone has given a response above to indicate it might not be. But if I was the Knox Coach, I would have lodged the protest, just to test the outcome.

No haranguing perceived HO, I'm merely asking questions and contributing to the same discussion!

My questions remain - you know the correct way lodge a protest, so I'm asking once a protest is correctly lodge what happens? I didn't say noone knows how to lodge a protest, or noone knows how to hear it, I'm asking - who DOES know? I don't! It sounds like you know how to lodge but, like me, you also don't know what happens after it lodged.

My assumption only (as stated when I said "assumingly" ;) ) is that the protest would not have been heard that night. Which if my assumption is correct, means that the outcome would have been no different.

I would reckon how a protest is heard is left to the league. They would have a process for assembling a jury of some kind.

From memory at BA tournaments they have a three person jury being the local organising committee rep, the head of referees and the BA rep at the event.

It could even be that the first step in hearing the process is allowing it to be heard - which might be the decision of one person (SEABL competition manager for example).

You would have access to SEABL policy on that.

But, a decision could be, even after the night, that the teams get together and play the overtime period. So the outcome might be different. And if that was the decision of the jury, and the league could not do it because of cost, that would be pretty mickey mouse!

In that situation with games being videoed I'm surprised a team coach could not ask either the scorebench official or Court Manager to have the referees return to the court to review the footage to confirm if the shot was legitimately released before time expired - Just like in College games - surely its not that hard to have a video review.

A protest is a waste of time - don't remember ever hearing about games results being overturned on protest!

Post #428033 makes some good points about the number of referees required for a weekend to cover all the Championship Level Games - perhaps they should consider returning back to 2 refs per game to ease the demand.

*moot point

Hopefully someone from SEABL reading this and takes not of referee feedback. Ruining good games.

VP, have you ever seen a protest lodged? As in a real one? I have been watching basketball for a long time and have only heard of one being lodged, and that was in Europe.

The entire SEABL explanation is what is moot btw, not what they offered as a reason. If a protest had been lodged, they would have had options to consider other than video. The video explanation is a nonsense - it would be like the AFL saying they cannot hear a tribunal because it was not on camera. If it had been correctly protested, then as I indicated above, it could have potentially taken into account the views of the league officials present, and the scoretable officials.

Another very interesting round results wise!

Bendigo bounces back.

Dandenong look to have found their mojo

Nunawading continue to build towards what may be another championship showdown with Bendigo!

Mt Gambier loss to Frankston was a shocker no doubt! Nunawading looking like the #2 team now!!
Those two plus Hobart should provide a cracking finals series in that conference.
Geelong were almost over run by Brisbane and Sandringham so not sure they have proved much. Bendigo easily the team to beat. Dandenong look like they have timed their run with last two strong wins!

My order/summary of the contenders.

Bendigo - Lack depth but best starting group in the league...if they can stay injury free current title Faves!

Geelong – Too much talent to not be second pick….have looked a bit out of synch & the balance of team is a issue…but still 2nd pick for mine as they can scroe quickly and really get after teams with there pressure D.

Mt Gambier – Lots of talent….going thru a bit of a funk right now but similar to Geelong way too much talent to not be a threat….would be 2nd pick if not for Fridays result.

Nunawading – flying under the radar…MacDonald & Conn putting up big numbers week after week, but they need to keep Greer/Cameron/Conn fit, if they do that could surprise. Haven't seen enough of them with Greer on the floor to put them into the top 3…but if they keep up this form they could slot into 2nd or 3rdFaves.

Hobart – Depth is an issue but they have guys who can light it up on any given night (George/Gregg)…which in the finals format makes them a huge danger.

Outside of the above group I don’t see any other dangers...but finals teams will be really hitting there straps in the coming rounds and making adjustments ready for finals so looking forward to watching results over the next 3 weks.

Ballarat will be fine....they lost a few locals which hurt there depth.

Bruce hasn't played often enough...so this exposed a poor guard rotation.

If anything i think the import Young was a poor choice once they new that Walker was on board, they would have been better getting an import SG/PG to play alonsige Bruce & step into the PG when is isn't around.

That said they lacked depth and only really play 3 deep (Imports & Walker)

They got by early of some pretty bug performance from Hanson....now everyone is keyed up on him and forcing other guys to take shoots...but give them a year or two and they will be back in the mix

Agree that Hanson is a gun...carried them most of the season....and does it very efficiently compared to a couple of other imports.

They lost the locals who were roster fillers...McCullam etc and even thou not stars the loss of them hurts.

Just had a look over the numbers this year to see if there is any NBL prospects playing SEABL from a pure numbers point of veiw and Simon Conn's numbers jumped off the page, haven't seen alot of them this year but his numbers are 22 & 12...clearly best perform Aussie this season.

I think he might be a little old but seems to move ok for a 7ft (Look like a 7ft anyway!)

Shame he never really got a crack. Came in about the time the league was contracting.

Got a contract with the Dragons didn't he Paul? The was released, in interesting circumstances...

Indeed.

Just had a look at the player of the week...pretty poor choice by head office (no disrespect to Mercer) but Macdonald didn't even get a mention with a stat line of 17, 16ast & 9brds!!!

Normally i don't look into it to much but thought that statline jumped out of the page and was worth a mention

I agree he probably deserved the award & definitely deserved an honourable mention.

Agreed.

Its was an accident waiting to happen down there.Have trouble getting good coaches down there.Need to go after someone young and ambitious whos prepared to do the hard yards.