I tihnk there Junior teams play domestic comp in the EDJBA and a few VJBL teams but think they might need a better base of junior first...that said hasn't stopped alot of other clubs from having a Big V team with virtually no juniors

hear what you are saying Tiger Watcher.

However they have more VJBL teams than the following associations;
Altona
Chelsea
Coburg
Corio Bay
Craigieburn
Geelong
Keysborough
LaTrobe
Melton
Hume City
Pakenham
Southern Pen
Melbourne Uni (who do not have any)

Of Those associations All of them have played in Big V finals in the last 3 years with the exception of Pakenham who are on top of the ladder.

It can be done if the right people are there. The thing is they will go backwards from here if there is no senior program for players to aim for.

I hope they can make it happen.

Pallas, only one of those it at championship level (12 Girls) and only one at League One level (this time 12 Boys).

16 Boys at VJL4 and 18 Boys below that level does not bode well for the future.

Just so I am consistent, I would think the league would have a lot of work to do to justify a future for this team in BigV.

Collingwood look like a cub model program rather than an association model program.

This was the problem with the admission of CB to championship directly, that it had nothing underpinning it to guarantee a home-bred future. CB had every right to be in the league, certainly ahead of what Collingwood have, but not direct to championship.

Unfortunately, the current management's obsession with quantity, not quality, means you will certainly be admitted!

Your right a number of smaller associations/clubs are in the Big V...That said Collingwood should just keep trying to build there junior team numbers so they have a consistant flow of kids from VJBL then into MMBL into Big V....i know they have a number of teams in the EDJBA but i think you require more teams in the VJBL.

But its all aboutthe numbers for Big V not the quality of play!

If yo look at the VJBL website they have 21 teams. That is not the EDJBA or anyother comp but VJBL.

I am not involved with collingwood but can see that they should certainly be looking at that as an option for their players to progress.

Big V d2m is not beyond them. Is that why we dont have lower Big V divisions so that we can give smaller clubs an opportunity to play some level of senior rep basketball. This is about a community having a team not about it being super elite. Not every association has the capacity to play SCM or SEABL. Some dont even want to play D1.

However if they are able to play atsome level and have their juniors come down and see the people that may coach them on a friday night playing over the weekend with a fun atmosphere. Is that not important??

Pallas, I am not down on Collingwood.

However, there is VJBL and there is VJBL. You raised the numbers equation about Collingwood in that league.

However, 21 teams in VJBL, almost all of them at fourth division or lower in that league does not point to longer term success at senior level because the talent pool gets sharper in senior basketball simply because players have longer careers at senior levels

There are 10000 VJBL players and I reckon probably 1500 in BigV. If Collingwood was consistently having teams compete at VJBL 1 or occasionally in championship, then I think there is a "future" debate worth having. I think you will find most of the teams you have drawn comparison to above have teams generally at better levels than Collingwood at VJBL.

I think Collingwood is a good example of the lack of structure that currently exists in Victorian Basketball, where CBL and MMBL are not really providing an entree to BigV, but should be. That has been debated here before.

entree ? lol

Oakleigh were told when they were rejected from the Big V to put a team into MMBL first, and also enter the Big V tournament which they did. Will be interesting to see whether they it 3rd time lucky when they apply for 2014?

I remember Pakenham were dominating MMBL before they were admitted into the Big V under Danny Adamson but its taken 3-4 seasons and some serious recruiting to be where they are this year.

So you shouldn't think that just because your a strong team in MMBL your going to be competitive in the Big V.

And the support structures required for Big V Club are much greater than in the MMBL and the finances to run a Club in the Big V are signifcantly higher.

Oakleigh are likely to be admitted to Big V in 2014 with Bob Mann running the show having been in the League before with McKinnon for at least 15 years I believe.

I wish the Allstars all the best but I think it will be 2-3 years before they would expect to be admitted into the Big V.

#419573

Good Call. Mostly.

The YL thing is a bit different in the BigV. its effectively a reserve grade, so you have to have a Divisional team before you have a YL team.

and that might be logical, but its not how the BigV works it.

Do you think the Big V could creat a 3rd division that would be between MMBL and the current D2.

The gap between MMBL and Big V could continue to grow and is not good for the sport in Victoria.

I know people will probably bag the idea and sya their usual crap like D2 is a domestic with stats etc.. But i am looking at what we could offer the smaller clubs at the end of the day it is more people involved in the sport we all love.

Think about it you could then allow clubs like Oakleigh, Collingwood, perhaps Horsham comeback, maybe we would see Warragual return. There are also clubs like Wallan, Bellarine Peninsula who will probably look at entering in the not to distance future and there are also a few CBL clubs that should do what Sheparton did and step up.

Just a little typo;
allow clubs like Oakleigh, Collingwood, perhaps Horsham comeback,

should have read;
allow clubs like Oakleigh, Collingwood in and perhaps Horsham comeback,

Collingwood faces a number of problems as a club as it grows in size and playing standard. Only one VC rep team this year, but would have been at least three, if players weren't enticed to move to bigger clubs [read "poached"].The MMBL team has had great success over a few years, all with home developed players. Having a Big V team would encourage Collingwoods best players to continue to move through the ranks, not only strengthening every age group, but also adding more depth to the coaching ranks. Collingwood draws on a unique demographic, Carlton, Clifton Hill, Northcote, Ivanhoe etc, along with a huge number of talented athletes from the local community.
Having representation in both Big V mens and womens competitions is great carrot to dangle in front of the club and needs to happen in the future.

Dane, where would a Collingwood BigV team play?

Venue is a real problem. They would have to share an existing venue, although finding one with the correct "fit' is problematic.
The is a major push by the club to have stadium built with a minimum 4 courts and obviously if this is done then the venue sorts itself out.

IMO dont stress about a Venue. Over the years Clubs ahve shared venues with success.

If the club is good enough to go Big V, then they should. Worry about venue once you know if you have something to put on the floor

But G, that is another of the BigV's problems at the moment. It has in more recent years allowed clubs to play in sub standard venues.

I hear what you are saying but in all respect we are talking about D2 yeah? If it was SCM then thats different but for the lower levels I dont see an issue. In other states they play their top tier state basketball (non SEABL) in venues that are way below the worst of the Big V. I think Basketball would be the winner.

Also correct me if I am wron g but MSAC is not to far away and is not used by any other Big V or SEABL team...

G, which is (sort of) fine until the team wants to progress and then gets promoted.

I have no idea where Collingwood might play, but the league cannot continually allow its standards to drop. A number of years back that started ruling out venues - like where Blackburn and McKinnon used to play.

Sherbrooke's old venue at Monbulk was fine off court but not appropriate on court for example. MSAC

G, which is (sort of) fine until the team wants to progress and then gets promoted.

I have no idea where Collingwood might play, but the league cannot continually allow its standards to drop. A number of years back that started ruling out venues - like where Blackburn and McKinnon used to play.

Sherbrooke's old venue at Monbulk was fine off court but not appropriate on court for example. MSAC would be fine but is very expensive as I understand.

In order to get a new venue they need to grow.
to grow they need to be in Big V.

Cheiken or egg issue

Disagree Taxman. Venue build should be based on domestic demand, not on elite needs. If Collingwood were a booming domestic program, then there is a case for a new 3-4 court venue, but in land cramped inner city melbourne, that might be tough to deliver.

They could use Melbourne Girls College which is one of their venues on a Friday night. Simply put the team bench and scoretable opposite where all the seating is. Similar set-up to Whittlesea at Mill Park just with a smaller grand stand. Much similar to the Maccabi set-up at Bialik College as well.

There are a number of venue options for Collingwood if they want to take the plunge into Big V. opportunity for some local schools and the association to make something happen.

HO, Collingwood does have a booming domestic program, not sure of the numbers but would love to see how many teams entered in EDJBA compared with 5-6 years ago. When my daughter started as an 8 year old[3 years ago], she was selected in the under 11#2 side as there was no younger girls at the club. The club has 4 under 9 teams this season and 8 under 11. Huge growth. The clubs VJBL program is getting stronger and bigger and I believe lack of court space is the biggest problem.

Well Dane, that is great news and I wish you luck getting new courts!

not sure #420597, I'm not a committee member, just a parent who loves basketball, so not privy to any discussions.

Simply put, either develop a Big V program or develop players to go and play elsewhere.

There is no point having a VJBL program unless it has some sort of pathway. Either at the same club or elsewhere.