Not really good enough.

Good win by Blues with import to come.May suit up this week depending on immigration.

Anon #418444

Pull your head in. You have no idea what the reason for no up dates are so you should shut up. For a semi pro league their administration is first class compared to say....I don't know the NBL!!! Douche

Well I really hope Carter returns, after watching him last weekend he's a big improvement to that team. The Raiders desperately need a point guard who knows what he's doing and can play more that 5 mins without running out of puff. Caroll simply isnt upto it. Get CJ back from injury with him and watch out.

All the boxscores are here:

http://seabl.com.au/index.php?id=250

NBL can learn a lot from the SEABL administration

I think SEABL have done a very good job over the last few years and in particular there media coverage. Makes Big V look like a circus.

Happy Days, I have done comparisons here before. I'd be interested in you quantifying/qualifying that.

The SEABL's media is dull. I think I described their Youtube show last year as "audience threateningly dull".

I am critical of BigV as well btw. I think their media is incredibly introspective.

But at least in 2013 the BigV has some variety in their coverage!

The SEABL website has had "tipping" as one of their hero stories every week this season.

The SEABL at least have got rid of the guy hosting their "preview show" (that in itself is clue to how dull they are, they call their weekly youtube effort the "preview show") and the new host is a lot better, she seems to have a good relationship with the players.

I am not sure what everyone thinks is actually happening when you say the SEABL is doing a good job with their media coverage.

Re: "The rebounding was so bad that with about 20 seconds owusu was at the line with his team up by three. he misses both! yet pioneers rebounding is so bad that the rebound goes straight back to him! he makes a pass, pioneers fould and friend hits one of two to get the final margin."

& Owusu then got the rebound off that missed second shot as well. I thought at the time it was unbelievable for a team to give up 2 offensive boards from free throws at any time but even more so under those circumstances.

I don't know what people expect from SEABL regarding media. The results are normally posted the day after games at the latest (& most of the time you still have Livestats results available though lately I notice some of them vanish right after the game). Yes, the preview video shows are a bit boring, especially so if you don't follow the team of their weekly guest since 80% of the show is about them.

Beth does a good job interviewing players since she does have a rapport with many but I used to like some of the more in-depth analysis of games & teams that you got with Ed & Rohan plus guest coaches. I think the point is that you do not even see this sort of thing from the NBL nor most of the state leagues. The NBL couldn't even get their ladder right for much of last season & their Livestats were a joke so I think it's a bit rough to complain about a semi-pro league with very limited staff being dull.

I do think their website needs a revamp though. It's very busy & not at all attractive but at least the information people want is there which is better than most.

D4444, in commenting on this I am trying to draw out what "good" is. Happy Days is saying they have done a "very good" job.

How do you measure that?

Did the NBL stop producing "it goes off" with Grantley/Drewey"? And BigV initiated the youtube show before SEABl did and still do it, although they now produce so many shows it is too hard to watch.

And by dull i mean dull. I don't mean poor. The SEABL's work is accurate, but it is so vanilla it is dull.

Last year someone commented that you can only expect Vanilla from league produced content - the BigV used to produce quite controversial content - although they seem to be doing less of that.

BigV are much bigger than SEABL, and generally update results and stats in much the same timeframes. They also produce different weekly lists (blue carpet, previews and reviews and now some sort of power ranking).

This is not meant to be pro BigV, but you have commented on the state leagues and right now I think bigV are just as timely, and produce more content, over a much bigger league. (and its less crap than previous years!)

You need to consider what resources the SEABL has available which is one person doing media and compare them to other leagues. You might consider it dull and boring but from a corporate viewpoint thats what we are looking for.

#418508

Sorry anon, AFAIK they have very similar staffing levels. 3 staff for SEABL and 3 for BigV? That's my understanding.

Both have a full time media person and both have a part time media person. The girl (sorry, name evades me...) for SEABL and Justin for BigV.

And the BigV is about 5 times the size of the SEABL.

But again, this was not about BigV versus SEABL and I don't want it to appear that way - I am very critical of some of BigV's stuff.

I am just trying to find out what "good" or "very good" is.

And results being online or livestats working is not media btw. That's operations. And both leagues do a good job (probably excellent) of this - I have not complained about it. (i do find it interesting that both leagues use the same technology that the NBL did until the league changed its website)

I think people here over-rate what the SEABL do considering that for a smallish league, they have generous staffing numbers. They do no marketing of their league, their social media is bland, and it is an area they can have fun with. Their league portrays no personality. They are not producing the volume of content that the BigV do, and they are not doing it, generally, in as timely a fashion. I think the myth of the SEABL outshines the reality.

And Happy Days, their media is not corporate, far from it. Both leagues do sport media and virtually no corporate style media. If you want "corporate style" sport media in 2013, then you have got your strategy horribly wrong.

We recently signed an AFL club, an A League and a sporting organisation to sponsorship agreements worth 180k.Neither SEABL or Big V meet the criteria at this stage but SEABL would be alot closer than Big V. Calling people dickheads and use of other swear words on your tube channel isnt going to attract a lot of corporate interest.

Feedback on the SEABL Preview show is always welcome - happy to hear any ideas and suggestions that those who watch want to see. This year the league has tried to do something a bit different by bringing myself and Rohan on as co-hosts of the Men's show - we generally alternate from week to week to try and give a bit more variety, and have tried to feature guests from a different team each week. Both Rohan and I (and Larissa Anderson on the women's show) do this voluntarily, we're not employed part time by the league. I'm having a lot of fun doing it so far! Unfortunately we will never be all things to all people, as some people prefer a lighter style of entertainment, and others prefer statistical analysis. This year's viewership numbers have increased from last year though, so hopefully we are doing something right! As I said - more than happy to hear what the people who watch the show want to see. It's often hard to squeeze a lot into a 10-12 minute show, but of course any longer than that and people just will not find the time to watch it.

I think Ed Reddin does a fantastic job as the sole full time media person and his time and effort always go well above and beyond.

Oh, and speaking of Round 8....my wrap up of the Round is now up at http://andthefoul.net/archives/6081

:)

Some pretty big stat lines on the weekend.

Standouts for mine:

Shane Macdonald: 19, 10 & 8
Chuck Long: 35 & 8
Daequon Montreal: 29 & 8
Zach Henifin: 27, 8 & 7
Ben Hollis: 10 & 22
Robinsonn: 30 &8
Cannan: 33 & 11
Polk: 24 & 20

I like the Macdonald, Henifin & Cannan Stat lines that said chuck Long might be up for player of the week

Well said Beth.

And that is reasonable Happy Days.

But that depends on what you want and what sort or organisation you are - its not a definitive based on the league's delivery.

You sound like a conservative one. An outlaw brand, one like Virgin for example, might prefer the colour of the BigV to the vanilla of the SEABL.

I presume you have a clause in your sponsorship agreements that allows you to cut your sponsorship the first time you see a player or coach from the A-league club mouth the "f" word on tv!!

Polk for mine too

#418565

Vanilla might have got you broader appeal in the 1960's, but it is not a guarantee of success in the 2-ten's. Again, outlaw brands do very well in the 2-ten's based on very much not being vanilla. In the SEABL's case, their marketing and media is so straight that it demonstrates no energy, and perhaps therefore little appeal. It is straight. It is sponsored by a vacuum company for christ's sake!

Happy days is talking about some of the stuff said on the BigV tv btw, and its not rife, and its TV is pretty much internal consumption. Its magazine by comparison shits on anything SEABL do in terms of content, and is probably deserving of wider readership.

I don't think the BigV is that colourful, I made the point I did above to contest Happy Days one size fits all approach to sponsorship, suggesting that straight = more appeal. Red Bull don't sponsor straight and traditional, they are looking for left of centre maverick stuff.

Again, I am not slanging the SEABL here. They do a consistently good job, based on a formula. The standard of what they produce within their formula is very good. But I'd make the point again, when one of your four hero stories all year has been tipping results, then you aren't spruiking much else! Their style is straight, and I don't think they deliver a whole heap of innovative content - virtually none in fact.

^ pretty much sums it up. The product sells itself, BigV take the approach that they need to spice things up to take the attention away from the lack lustre oncourt product, in contrast SEABL have an oncourt product that doesnt need as much selling.

I pretty much keep an eye across all leagues across the country but I have absolutely no time for Big V. I think the standard is crap and because they are so big their content is spread too thin. I couldn't give a toss what some kid did in Division 34 men and echuca north! Not interested at all. One sentence on each division just is rubbish for the common basketball fan. Each to their own but ill take Vanilla and quality every time compared to nicknames and inside jokes

You picked it Tiger Watcher...

"Standouts for mine:

Shane Macdonald: 19, 10 & 8
Chuck Long: 35 & 8
Daequon Montreal: 29 & 8
Zach Henifin: 27, 8 & 7
Ben Hollis: 10 & 22
Robinsonn: 30 &8
Cannan: 33 & 11
Polk: 24 & 20

I like the Macdonald, Henifin & Cannan Stat lines that said chuck Long might be up for player of the week"

Henifin it is.

Yea i thought Macdonald/Henifin had pretty good all-round games and stat lines.

Glad to see a bit of good nes up North for our Brisvegas cousins with Henifin getting the nod

Again, just so those who can't read get it, I am not pumping up the BigV for their sake. Again, some of the BigV stuff is rubbish - and I have said that in other threads.

Again, for those who can't read, I am not bagging the SEABL, their content in their style is fine, its just dull.

But here is the situation:

- people here saying the SEABL media is "good" or "very good" yet can't substantiate that. No one is actually saying what makes it good.
- the suggestion that the SEABL do well with a small staff is refuted here by the so far undisputed suggestion that the BigV have the same staffing numbers, produce much more content, and in a more timely manner (that is not pro BigV - its just a straight up comparison)
- now for opinion, the SEABL stuff is vanilla, and that is not a strength IMO, and their social media stuff is awful - considering what social media could be doing for you.

And Sebastian, I am totally with you on nicknames and inside jokes, and have also said that before. But to suggest you get one sentence on each division is staggering ignorance - your opinion on the quality of the league obviously doesn't allow you to view actual content rationally. (we call it prejudice....)

#418622 & Ronny Raider.

I've heard from a number of people that crowds are awful in SEABL this year. Even perennial big drawers like Ballarat and Geelong apparently well down on previous years.

I heard the Knox vs Kilsyth game, which used to draw cracking crowds, had a crowd in the hundreds for example - whereas 5-6 years ago, this fixture was literally drawing sellouts in the old Knox venue (capacity well over 1000).

Just hit me again with some evidence about how the product is selling itself?

Knox have a big problem with getting crowds now they have moved venues!

It is a bit of a disconnect from there old club/heartland in Boronia hence they are drawing poorly compared to when true connect/atmosphere created at the old venue!

The ols venue was a true home court, they new centre is lifeless and has no atmosphere/home court feel.

HO an example from the round 8 wrap-up

Content for the Werribee v Hume City SCM game:

It's been a rough stretch of five games (all losses) for the Broncos. As a true test to find out if the Broncos would be a contender this season, they have unfortunately failed after losses against Corio Bay, Waverley, Ringwood, Diamond Valley and Werribee. Sorry Hume City fans, there will be no finals action this season.

Gee thank you for the magnificent content on the game......

Yeah I'm clearly biased...sorry prejudiced!

Serves me right for trying to reply whilst feeding a 9 month old...apologies. Move along, nothing to see here

I agree on the new centre Tiger Watcher - its a soul-less place.

However, this is Knox vs Kilsyth, regularly (and stupidly) promoted by those two clubs as the biggest rivalry in Australian basketball.

Have you seen crowds at other venues? I am hearing (from referees mainly) that crowds are in disheartening decline - particularly at what are normally big drawing venues.

#418903

Of course you might be right, but you are actually wrong.... because the SEABL product sells itself.... just read the posts above ....

Nothing ever "sells itself", that much is obvious. But what are some ideas that the LEAGUE could do, that it is not already doing, to improve attendance? Does that not come down to each individual club/association doing all it can to promote their own home games and encourage people to come along?

Beth, appreciate the "positiveness" of your response, and the intent.

My issue is with the posters here that want to paint the SEABL as the best run thing in the universe but really can't back it up! The league is solidly run, but if crowds are on the decline, then the league needs to be providing leadership to clubs to rectifying that. Given my limited knowledge of league staffing, I doubt there is capacity for that. Reality is the league has very little power, and very little resources, to really impact attendances.

However, the league could run league wide promotions, with a lot more grunt than a pissy $200 competition to find it a new name, that reward attendance at games.

It could also be far more creative and active on facebook and twitter. These are conversational mediums, not simply posts that point to content.

There is no conversation occurring currently.

I'll give you a conversational example where the BigV absolutely smashed it recently. They ran a promotion on their facebook page were they put up an album of every club logo in the league and encouraged people to "like" their club logo. They got a compelling response. And within clubs they got even more activity. Their engagement scores would have been through the roof.

The only thing the SEABL do that is even vaguely similar is their "peoples choice" award and again, they go and take a concept from somewhere else and just copy it. Why not make this far more dynamic, rename it, offer prizes from sponsors for participating etc. BTW, you can't just run the same thing on social media every week - people's choice might work on your website, but social media is for changing things up constantly...

But I am sorry, its well been well established here that the league does not need anything other than formulaic, routine, vanilla content because... the league SELLS itself! So no need for you to do anything.

As I said, I don't actually work for the league, so there's nothing 'I' can do per say. But as someone who's worked in media and previously for a SEABL club I'm always interested in what other people's ideas and input are. In my opinion, the major hindrance that a lot of clubs (and by extension, the league) have is that they are sometimes too cautious. Social media can sometimes be a negative factor as well as positive, from comments or content being inappropriate, and that can hold clubs/league back from saying what they want to say!

I'm just playing devil's advocate here - and I certainly don't think that either SEABL or Big V have a ''better'' approach to what they do, it's just different! Different leagues, different approaches, but both working hard to give their audience contnet.

I really like what the Big V do as well and I always read their Overtime magazine which has some great content. I don't often watch their Big V TV shows, but that's more a time factor and the fact that my media focus is more on SEABL.

#419071

You will notice I have not been pumping up the BigV in my comments here. The reason for raising them is to invalidate the "SEABL are the greatest gift to sports media ever" brigade.

The SEABL apologists for years have put the BigV down, whenever it threatened the SEABL. I don't happen to think it is threatening the BigV now, but the apologists still take the "BigV is crap in everything they do" line because insecurity is hard to get over.

Beth has been generous above in praising some of the BigV stuff and good on her. Some of their stuff is good. Their e-zine is probably the best thing anyone is doing in Australian basketball in this space my view and it is a good production, not a great one.

It's just lovely that the SEABL have a catalogue of DVD's available. Really lovely. Makes me feel warm and tickly inside. Also completely and totally irrelevant to the discussion.

As for livestreaming. I'll make the same comment I made when Waverley (bigV) announced their technically and broadcastwise MUCH better livestreaming. Respectfully, its a lot of energy for a tiny market. Not worth the time really.

In the context of bang for buck, from a media division, for media consumption, not worth the effort. But again, just lovely.

Now tell me about the impact the media of both leagues is having outside of their leagues and perhaps we can have a discussion, with intelligence, not just some primeval rant....

and BTW, it was the SEABL apologists above who were indicating the BigV content was more edgy...

Thought you guys might enjoy watching this week's "Quickie" in the SEABL Preview Show :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VFqT-FP4PQ

Is it safe for work? ;)

Absolutely!