^ There is a Referee shortage all over the country at all levels for a few very good reasons. In fact there is a group working on solving many of the issues at BA level.

1) At domestic level they get too much abuse by clueless coaches, players and spectators, clubs need to be more vigilant at enforcing venue behavior code of conduct.

2)They can earn more money at Coles or Maccas, Ref's get paid low compared to other part time jobs and these jobs don't involve being abused at work.
3)Internal politics at an elite level is making people disillusioned.


These are the reasons we dont have enough refs.

"Fact is coaches sometimes are rude, arrogant expect everything their way"

Actually, that description sounds exactly like one of the "imported" referees for the Easter carnival. And there was no accountability for his behaviour/actions at all.

"And there was no accountability for his behaviour/actions at all."


I love these statements, what did the official do that he got away with? Are we talking behavioral issues? or did he just make calls against you??

Massive difference, from everything I've seen over the past 40 years here in Victoria Referee's RARELY get away any kind of unacceptable behavior, i.e abusing players etc, all you need to do is talk to a supervisor and explain the problems and you'll find most get spoken to. But don't complain about how the game is called, that is just the way it goes.

Within a few years time,there will be no referees left.
Those coaches who abuse referees,one day will be given the whistle to see if they can do a better job.

The numbers have declined nowadays ,many solo games will happen.

Referee coaching recently occured over state champs also.

#117, I know of what the poster above you is referring to and it's not about making calls against anybody. It was to do with behavioural issues. If what I have since heard about the people affected is true, the fact that Norwood chose to let the referee get away with it, will have some fairly unfortunate consequences for Norwood. Please don't ask me to elaborate on this because out of respect to the people involved, I'm not going to.

"wrong" - you heard wrong.

think there are two different refs discussed on here one local on from over the border


refs get paid $11 per game on average for district
for that they get abused but not taxed, it can also be physically and mentally taxing.

our local U23 comp they get paid about $17 interstate for the same competition they get paid $70

players get paid or some do handsomely to pay ABA majority of refs get paid $50

Bucketman, where can a ref get $30 per hour reffing domestic anywhere in Australia? They don't even get that on junior panel for Rep.

#413207 knows the incident in question. It was not "calls against me" - I didn't have a team in the carnival - but it was most certainly behavioural and communication issues. Let's just say if the coach treated the referee the way that the referee treated the coach - well, there would have been an uproar and likely a long suspension. Yet the referee got away without any consequence at all. No accountability whatsoever!
And I wasn't going to bring it up, but since someone else has - Norwoods treatment of the incident could not have been more shambolic. Yet another great basketball mind lost to our ranks.

How do you know the Referee "got away" with what they apparently did??

It would be standard practice to handle all incidents and complaints (you did lodge a proper complaint didn't you?) in private without the Teams or Coaches ever knowing the consequences.

Aaah, so there is no transparency with referees as well as no accountability?

@ #314

What are you talking about? the only transparency that needs to occur is between the official in question and the referee manager, it absolutely should be delt with privately, its nobody's business how they're dealt with.

Here's a thought, would you like your boss at work chewing you out in front of all your peers and customers??

#315 (also #303), you are generalising, and of course, normally what you're saying is correct. However you are obviously not aware of the unusual circumstances about this incident, so it might be wise not to offer an opinion.

The big problem here is not the lack of accountability anyway. The real problem was what happened afterwards, and as a result Norwood end up losing out big time.

Norwood's loss will be someone else's gain I suppose.

@ #335

"However you are obviously not aware of the unusual circumstances about this incident, so it might be wise not to offer an opinion."

Well don't freaking post it then if you wont give all the details.

How about you "don't freaking post" if you have no clue what you are on about. There's a few people in this thread who know what went on and you're not one of them.

If it's not for public knowledge or consumption or discussion dont put it on a fucking public forum for people to discuss if your going to play stupid cone of silence bullshit.

Either doll out the facts or shut the fuck up about the perceived lack of accountability and transparency.

Morons seriously

^^^^

SPOT ON.

Not telling anyone the outcome is showing respect for the official and the process, letting people know it had been investigated and delt with would have sufficed and been the most that should happen.

Again, would you be happy if your boss went around telling everyone he chewed your butt off and disciplined you?? NO i bet.

Why do you need to know what happened to the official beyond knowing it was taken seriously and delt with???

again there are two different conversations here I believe

One involving a ref and norwood person at easter classics

the other involved with a ref who is connected to norwood

maybe wrong but think people are talking cross purposes

Anonymous referee above - you demand players/coaches etc. to have respect for the referee fraternity - how are we supposed to respect them when one of them behaves in such a way, it seems the rest cover it up, so we don't know if the person in question has been disciplined over the incident? The fact that he continued to referee in the tournament, with pretty much the same (poor) attitude, would suggest that absolutely nothing was done!

If there was accountability for their actions - the same as players/coaches/etc have - and transparency of decisions made regarding those actions - the same as players/coaches/etc - have, then there would be no problem.

The fact that you wish for this to be swept under the rug, and you bully anyone with an opinion of the matter, suggests you are actually part of the problem being discussed.

"If there was accountability for their actions - the same as players/coaches/etc have - and transparency of decisions made regarding those actions - the same as players/coaches/etc - have, then there would be no problem."

EQUALLY any kind of disciplinary action taken towards a Coach or Player should also be treated with respect and confidentiality.

The people wanting to be given the information about what happened are only looking to point score or gloat id suggest, hardly productive for allowing that official to return to officiating without fear of belittling or ridicule, just like all other work places id suggest, (maybe go read the Worksafe legislation on it), the Basketball court is a work place you do realize.??

The official (or coach or player) is entitled to have the matter delt in confidence. You only need to know it was taken seriously and investigated properly.

^ A tribunal situation is completely different to an internal investigation.

The point isnt about people wanting the information. The point is starting a topic with cloak, daggers, smoke and windows. If the full extent of the matter cant be told dont post the comment at all. If the content is confidential and private keep it that way.

This he said she said cover up no transparency is just bollocks when there is no content and if there shouldnt be any content dont post in the first place ya posturing roosters

"If I was a club official and made a complaint, I'd want to know that the matter was dealt with to my satisfaction. "

YOUR satisfaction??? HUH? You're making the assumption the other party was in the wrong and you were in the right.

TOO often i see people bitterly complain about an official and they're CLEARLY the ones in the wrong.!!!!

There are mechanisms for reporting officials and making complaints, people need to use those processes or just walk away.

I am the person who started this thread and I am sure that can be confirmed if necessary... I didn't coach/referee/ attend the Easter carnival. I was referring to Tuesday night div1 youth league. I admit I have in the past been a volatile coach, I have received tech fouls, some justified some not. I have made inappropriate comments to refs and had refs make inappropriate comments to me.
I have faced tribunal, I have been criticised on this forum, I have referees that refuse to speak to me. I am okay with all that I have made my peace.
I have also made official complaints about referees, I have spoken to court supervisors, referee evaluators I have offered to share game film to help show my point of view.
I have never once in all my communication ever received feedback on what has been passed onto the referees, I have never received any response to an official complaint. This has lead me to believe the referees are protected for fear of loosing refs.
I ask again, is there a step I have missed in this process??

If you provided feedback and used the appropriate method of reporting worthwhile incidents (not trivial rubbish) then yes, you've done your job and are missing nothing.

If a problem happens again just report it again. While most incidents that are reported and found to be substantiated do impact behavior through training there is such a thing as a "repeat offender" and no amount of "burning of the witch" will stop that.

All the anonymous referee has done for mine is confirm a complete lack of accountability. And by attacking others (rather than the issue) why referees are considered above-the-law and lacking in respect.

403
sounds like you were a sturt coach when this was happening that could not handle losing? Infectious problem there that still exists. Glad you have seen the light,like many of us.

#434,

Sounds like you are a referee that thinks you are bigger than the game and that the game is about the refs and not actually the players.

As a Coach who's NEVER been a ref and lets just say Coached at a very high level i can honestly say the divide between Coaches/Players and officials is caused mainly by us coaches....

Yep, i said it, Sad to say it but we only have ourselves to blame.

The sooner clubs employ smart DOC's who demand their coaches and players to forget the refs and focus on coaching/playing and improving their skills the better.

I see too much rude grandstanding from Coaches, Some Coaches carry on like they need NBL officials on their U14 C grade game.

In reality the officiating std should mirror the std of the game/level.
If your players cant make a layup or have a busted shooting style the last thing you should be worried about is a missed foul or travel.

I wouldnt be a ref for all the money in the world.

Your first paragraph gives you away. You are definitely a referee pretending to be a coach.