Wow. Surely this opens the door for one of the rumoured consortiums to purchase the license and move the team to brisbane. Perhaps the Hawks/Taipans could send an advisor on creating a community structured model.

For those too lazy to read the article, the corporate entity behind the Crocs has pulled the pin saying they cannot continue after losing $2.5m in the last six years. They're hoping that someone else will be able to pick it up with a community model that is more sustainable.

What's Mat Campbell doing?

The biggest problem was a failure to get sponsors to spend money on a poor-value marketing venture that is an NBL franchise in a regional centre, when you could spend money supporting the Cowboys (more clout, more "cool" factor, bigger crowds, brand name players, national exposure).

You just don't have those "White Knight" sponsors any more who would put their businesses' money into the club just because they were supporters of basketball.

From anecdotal evidence a lot of the sponsorship was lost after the axing of John Rillie and then Corey Williams and it was all downhill from there.

That combined with poor ticket sales and penny-pinching on rosters due to the lack of revenue is just a vicious cycle that is very difficult to break.

This is big and must be pretty concerning for BA. Another owner pulling up stumps at season's end for the second successive season. At least this one gave plenty of warning. According to the article, this was foreshadowed at the last AGM.

What are the odds of the licence being picked up locally and for a Townsville team to continue? Does Townsville have the same latent community support as Cairns and Wollongong were able to engage and activate? I get the impression it's not as strong as it was 5-10 years ago, which underlies this situation. But will this wake some people up and get them involved again?

3 out of the other 7 NBL teams CEOs/GMs also find out about it via social media, and not the NBL's social media.

Says alot.

BA really needs to bite the bullet and put it's cash behind the Brisbane bid as it reportedly did with the Kings.

As sad as it would be to lose the Crocs, an 8-team league with only two regionals actually leaves the league in a stronger place commercially.

Of course, if they cant get the Brisbane bid up and no one steps forward to keep Townsville alive then things are really starting to teeter.

Bit average of the Crocs to sign Mitch Norton to a 3-year deal and then do this a few days later.

How will Brisbane be any better?

They will have even less comunnity support than Townsville, which is the underlying problem here: fans through the gate and sponsors on the books. In Brisbane's title season their arena was a ghost town.

It has nothing to do with TV revenue...

I don't like the Crocs' chances of a community model though. Although this might bring a few old supporters out of the woodwork if their community buy-in will ensure transparency and accountability. But who knows....

Terrible. The Nbl cannot survive with 7 teams

Could also be a strategic move which would explain the Norton signing..

Firstly, from my reading only, Anstey on Twitter appears to be suggesting that this is as much about trying to drum up additional ownership support for the club as anything? e.g., I don't think the Hawks were getting quite the same level of support from NRE before shit got real. Anstey's two comments:

Everybody take a deep breath and wait for facts to come out. Sometimes people say things to gain leverage. @NBL

Lets not jump at shadows. Now is when bball needs its true fans to hang tough. Be patient. If you are a Crocs fan, buy a membership today!

Brisbane TV ratings out rate the other major cities half of the time, and they don't have an NBL team!

7 team league is entirely untenable. And it's way too short a turn around to include another team in next year's comp from scratch. It's Crocs or nothing.

This has massive ramifications league wide.

This thread is posting backwards. Weird.

Does this mean they don't have to pay out Woolpert and Flynn?

How does it affect the players' contracts?

(Daylight savings change must've just come through on the server configuration which explains why posts are in a strange order. Adjusted times on the first few comments to fix it.)

I am from Brisbane and I am not sure if it will work to get a Brisbane team here unless there was advertising through the newspapers and other forms of media. I am one of the only people in my school who follows NBL and most people at my school know the Bullets but don't even know they died. BUT I know there are a sustainable amount of Bullets supporters, we just need to attract the younger generation back to the NBL. An ideal stadium for the Bullets would be Pat Rafter arena, which is a 5000+ stadium the only problem is that the roof doesn't cover the sides of the stadium. This could be fixed by a government grant, but that doesn't seem likely because the Queensland government are not spending much because of our debts. I hope the Crocs situation can be fixed and we must not rush into new teams or the past will come back to haunt us. SAVE THE CROCS!

Hopefully this will be a catalyst for the league and BA to really look at everything, and actually do some work. Could this be the last nail that puts a season on hold for a little while the powers that be move things around like the players (Holmes) have said they want. Hopefully things aren't rushed as always

Dark days, Trev. Dark days...

Sorry Ricey but the solution isn't "do what the players want." Just because they play the game doesn't mean they know how to run the league.

As Mick said this doesn't leave much time for another Centre to pull a strong franchise bid out of there arse so it's prob going to be Community Ownership for the Crocs or nothing.

Yes, but the thing is fans have said it also, which is probably where players got the ideas for some things. Not to mention, doing the same thing over and over again hasn't worked for the league, so maybe listening to the players/fans is what they need to do!

The NBLPA was also calling for a higher salary cap when the president's club was bleeding money and now seems to have toppled or to be unsteady at best. Awkward.

Owner welfare first!

Wow, on the face of it this is grave news indeed...

Obviously we need to see what outcomes eventuate and of course what BA and the NBL give the public in their official statements, but not good at all for the competition, especially right now during the finals!

It does highlight the one factor that is killing the league, that of course is not rocket science, it is cashflow...

We all know the problem, what is the solution?

I've forgotten where the head of the NBLPA is plying his trade again too, Isaac?

Mutley, he might be free to play 48 minute games through winter at this rate.

There really needs to be a full shakedown of the NBL. It is stupid that teams can lose $400k per year and we the fans expect them to play on. Salary cap is not the be all and end all. Financial stability is paramount.

Again, we should all realise that with few exceptions, professional sport is not a profitable business in this country.

A number (multiple) of AFL clubs are losing money, many NRL, I believe all Super 15 clubs and of course, NBL clubs. A-league combined lost tens of millions last year and ANZ championship must be a huge struggle.

We have an unsustainable model for professional sport. In the case of the NBL its alright for people here to ask BA/NBL to do more, but what more can you expect them to do?

The NBL made a major strategic blunder going so hard after nbl.tv last year, and we'll see how it unfolds, but with woeful subscription numbers just reminding the major broadcasters how unimportant and undesirable the league is, someone should pay with their job for that one. If Townsville go, there surely must be a trigger for Ten to walk away from something they don't want anyway.

Otherwise, I cannot see what else the league could have done. It is in a pitiful condition, and is in a downward spiral.

Peter Crawford has been give 2 weeks notice!

People forget that all but a couple of NRL teams would fall over tomorrow if it weren't for the money their pokies bring in at each club's leagues club. NBL enjoys no such supplementary income.

A side point: All Crocs players' contracts are void so Holmes, PC, Blanchfield, Hinder and Norton are now free agents, whether or not a community model or club saviour takes up the licence.

Also the franchise won't have to pay out Woolpert and Flynn.

@ HO: what are the NBL.tv subscription numbers? I wouldn't be surprised if it were a three digit number, to be honest...

Mick, I have heard low four figures, the last figure quoted to me was under 3000, from someone I think would be pretty close to the mark. Of course $1 finals offer reeks of desperation, trying to prove the product and build a database for next season.

The simple facts are that basketball is not a major sport here in Australia. That might be difficult for people here to accept, because we are all hoops fans.
Apart from the boom period in the 90s when the Powerhouse was packed and Brisbane were playing out of a 15000 seat stadium, for the rest of its existence the NBL has not had the support to be a major player on the Australian sporting scene.
The NBL and the players need to realise that basketball in Australia is not a career. The end result will either be that the NBL folds completely, or we accept a watered-down semi professional league where players play and train after their day jobs. Of course the elite players will chase the $$$ overseas and we will be left with a much weakened league.
Unfortunately that appears to be the reality we are facing.

Before the $1 offer they were between 3000-4000.

Having NBL.TV cover each game has resulted in over 500,000 extra eye balls this season, generated significant revenue and given the NBL much greater flexibility in future negotiations with networks because it already has a product to sell/offer.

That has been a real bonus for the NBL, but it needs to make sure it uses it right and improves the product next season.

You know what $$$ the league was built on the back of the semi pro days, i don't enjoy the NBL anymore or any less today than i did then.

If some primadonnas need a haircut and a reality check then so be it. NBL wages should be a top up to a day job or university study , not a full time profession.

Players currently train 12 hours per week on court, plus gym sessions etc etc also so they can play 30 minutes at best on a weekend.

Nonsense.

If Perth and NZ can be profitable, why can't the others? There are no roadblocks in the way to NBL sustainability other than incompetent owners and administrators.

The only problem is: anyone who is competent wouldn't get involved at this point, because then they wouldn't be competent business people now would they...

So again, you are relying on people to save our game who are: well-off financially, competent in business and have a wide scope of vision, and basketball fans who are willing to suck it up for the good of the game.

A very small demographic indeed...

Which is why the changes must come from the top and in effect legislate so that the incompetent administrators are saved from themselves.

The $1 deal was based around getting figures up for flexibility (ha!) with negotiations for a future TV deal, not about the money it would bring in. Which is why they dropped it to $1.

Wildcats and Breakers can exist because of the PRIVATE ownership.
They spent money and won games.
"Build it and they will come....." remember?

"Nonsense.

If Perth and NZ can be profitable, why can't the others? There are no roadblocks in the way to NBL sustainability other than incompetent owners and administrators."

Sorry Mick but I think there's some nonsense in your post as well.
There is no inherent income in having a pro sports team.
If I started up a national badminton league tomorrow with a $1M salary cap, big stadiums and interstate flights then it would take a lot more than just "competent owners and administrators" to make it sustainable.

If Perth & Melbourne can make AFL teams hugely profitable then why can't Auckland? Or Sydney or Brisbane?
Sure, decent staff is a given, but there's a hell of a lot more to it. At the end of the day we're still trying to sell a sport that there just isn't a great deal of demand yet from people to watch, and therefore sponsor.

I think you misunderstood the flexibility side of it Nat! How many subscribers they have isnt going to have any real impact on a TV deal.

It's the product NBL.TV gives them to offer/sell that gives them flexibility.

The $1 deal was to get more subscribers for next season and build up their database.

It's interesting DD, 3-of-8 NBL clubs will make a profit this season, that's the best ratio in a long time. The problem is there are clubs who absolutely need revenue from the league, and if these clubs dont survive neither will the league in it's current form.

It's tough times, no doubt.

Why would the Crocs sellout home games five years ago and then all of a sudden no one wants to come?

You can't tell me that "demand for people to watch, and therefore sponsor" dropped in that short a span because of some widespread popular regression in basketball's popularity as a sport. It is absolutely and directly linked to the management and administration in that period of that one particular franchise.

The point is, there ain't much to do in Townsville on a Friday night, I know, I used to the live there.
There isn't exactly a crowded market of competition for entertainment. There are other factors at play here...

Hi

I heard this at about 9 & still can't believe it. It seems the owners have dipped into their pockets enough already and wouldn't do it again. They had a vote and it wasn't unanimous but the majority voted to wind up the business. It is hard to blame them given the 2.5million that had already covered.

The players found out through various methods; mostly social media, grapevine & media ringing to get their thoughts. Pat Reidy called everyone in and told them all he knew (which was not much) and that they were given 2weeks notice + paid the rest of this month's salary.

To keep the Crocs (& maybe the NBL) Townsville needs to put their money up and quickly work towards a community model. I'm not sure how many people would bring forward their money considering crowds and interest here have dropped plus most of the big $ business men in Townsville were already part of the board!

I am devastated, shocked but not defeated... I love the Crocs and I'm going to fight to keep them!!!

NBL wages should be a top up to a day job or university study , not a full time profession.

Here's what I'm talking about in terms of the club's short-sightedness. An oversimplified version, starting from what I call the "beginning of the end" for this once proud franchise:

"Oh, John Rillie just hit an NBL playoffs record ten three pointers in a playoff elimination game to knock out our arch rivals Perth in an AWAY game. Let's release him so the fans don't get too attached to one of the most likeable personalities in the history of the club and we have to offer him a front office position when he retires here next season.

Oh, revenues are slightly down after the GFC. Let's increase ticket prices to make up for the shortfall.

Oh, fewer people are buying tickets because of the increase in price, we better make sure we don't spend all of the cap so we can cover that shortfall.

Oh, no one wants to come to the games because the team isn't any good, we better make sure we increase the ticket prices, EVEN THOUGH CAIRNS CHARGES A PITTANCE OF WHAT A SEAT COSTS IN TOWNSVILLE, to make up for that shortfall.

Shit, with those expensive seats and no one coming through the door, we better make sure our roster is even cheaper this year so we can cover it.

Oh, we're bankrupt."


I will be happy to pony up the dough for a community model if the right people are involved...

And Isaac is absolutely right.

When a fair chunk of the league isn't spending the full cap, you have to be asking yourself, "is it too high for a sustainable competition?"

I wouldn't like to see the cap going any lower for skill reasons, but am absolutely against it being raised at all in the immediate or medium-term future of the league.

To think that not long ago the Crocs was the businees model that all other NBL teams were studying and aspiring to emulate due to the success the club was having.

Of the players Townsville started the season with, who would be missing if the cap was reduced 10%? Of the full roster, I can only think of Ervin and Nevill and even those guys could be squeezed in if others went cheap. Same roster with Corin Henry and Will Hudson would fit and not be completely useless. (You could get both those imports for the same price as Ervin alone, I assume.)

You can't flog a dead horse! NBL should fold.

Until BA make major changes the elite league in this country it is doomed. It will be gone in 2-3 years anyway so why not fold now before more damage is done to clubs who may be involved in a new format.

What pisses me off is if Barrier Reef Basketball had made this announcement a year or six months ago, it would have left plenty of time to drum up interest in the license from a private consortium or a comunnity model. They have known about this for a long time and could have been making the transition before it was too late.

Dropping this bombshell now just means that the Crocs will have to sit out at least a season, if they come back at all. There is no way a community model can get their shit together in time for an October season launch.

Stubbornness and non-transparency at work...

Well the free agent pool just got a little deeper. Who wants Blanchfield, Norton and PC?

Plot thickens...an offering from the Courier Mail?
http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/east/spartans-set-to-sign-former-townsville-players-as-crocodiles-and-cairns-stare-down-the-barrel-of-nbl-oblivion/story-fn8odwh7-1226614991245

Why does the article say Cairns is set to fold?

Sorry Paul, the industry, like the web industry, is smart enough to deal in uniques now - TV has dealt that way for a long time. The Voice attracted 2 million viewers last night and will average 1.2 million per night for the remainder of the season (or whatever). That is how the product will be talked about.

And its not 500,000 extra eyeballs. Some, if not all of those were already watching the FTA offering.

3000-4000 subscribers sends a very clear message to broadcasters, and that message is, the product, with only two games per week on FTA, is not in demand enough to justify a significant subscriber base.

If there are only 3000-4000 individuals rusted on enough to buy the product, spread amongst seven clubs, that is disastrous, and any rights buyer will know that, coupled with Ten's terrible ratings.

I think Cairns are trying to cut a better stadium deal just like AFL clubs with Etihad.

If the worst is realised & its 7 teams it is the end of the NBL it is that simple!

Hopefully this is all about manoeuvring for extra government/public support in Townsville.



It will be hard to swallow but it could just be reality for aussie hoops fans but we are effectively a 6/7th tier sport in commercial value & popularity terms. (just cause kids play the sport doesn't equal cash or soccer would be number 1 by a mile)

1. AFL
2. League
3. Cricket
4. Soccer
5. Union
6. Netball
7. Basketball

How are the finals going to work next year? Surely you can't have a comp where more teams make the playoffs than not.

I suppose that's the least of their worries right now...

Reduce Cap to $400K in order to keep Townsville or just wind up the league!

We can always revert to SEABL and let it be the premier comp with the suburban based teams and in a Semi-Pro mode....the standard will be less but so be it!

It hasn't hurt Soccer to have the majority of the better players being based in Europe/Asia.

More NBA teams make the playoffs than not, right?

And in the past, more than half NBL teams have made the post-season.

Meanwhile, the NBL have rejected the surrender of the Crocs' license unless they can prove insolvency:

Basketball Australia has this afternoon met with representatives from National Basketball League Clubs, in light of the Townsville McDonalds Crocodiles' moves to surrender their license to participate in the League.

It is our intention to support a viable NBL into the 2013/14 season, and we are working collaboratively with NBL Clubs to that end.

Basketball Australia will continue to work through the NBL White Paper process in order to ascertain a strategic direction - endorsed by the Basketball Australia Board and the NBL – to give the League the best opportunity at financial success.

Regarding the Crocodiles, Basketball Australia Chief Executive Officer Kristina Keneally is writing to Barrier Reef Basketball Pty Ltd to advise Basketball Australia will not accept the immediate return of their license, as the Club has not complied with the terms of the NBL License Agreement which would allow immediate surrender.

An immediate surrender of license would require the club to demonstrate they are insolvent.

Was just a story on the news over here, about the possibility of the Wellington Saints joining the NBL.

But they interviewed the Saints owner and he said that BA aren't too keen on having them (marketability issue)

The ANZ netball comp. is only doing so well because they pay the players peanuts. And still get really good crowds.

MACDUB, the ANZ comp is doing ok, (very well in NZ) but right now there is no competition for their athletes.

If the NBL struggles, and steps back to a semi-pro status, it faces overseas competition for its better athletes, and other sports competition for its lesser ones.

Some guys on NBL rosters now would earn more money playing state or local league footy.

SEABL could assume the NBL name and (most of) the NBL could re-brand as a 'higher' league.

#412823
making a profit early on?

Seriously, I don't think anyone buys into an NBL team expecting a short term profit.

Its easy to say people haven't been working long term - but what exactly does that mean?

You might be able to say Melbourne has been working more long term this year; moving to Hisense, recruiting marquee players... but on the downside papering the house, as has been suggested, has been proved everywhere to be a short term strategy, not one for long term success.

#412826,

Going back to a semi-pro league would be really beneficial.

Though, something tells me BA has too much pride to bite the bullet and say lets go to a semi-pro league.

Could be a great idea -- case of 'addition, by subtraction' or 'go back before going forward'.

Is it just me or is there way more publicity about the Crocs that there was when the Blaze folded?

"Is it just me or is there way more publicity about the Crocs that there was when the Blaze folded?"

it wasn't that long ago that it was a model franchise thriving.

Guaranteed money? They have openly stated they have bled several million dollars. The guarantee is only 1 mil.

Crocs: "We need to talk..."

NBL: "Ok, what's wrong?"

Crocs: "It's not you, it's me, we're breaking up"

NBL: "NOOOOOO! I can't live without you!"

Crocs: "The problems are just getting too much!"

NBL: "I'm not accepting this!I'll show you we can work"

'852, I don't think it's that simple.

The $1m guarantees were more about ensuring a team could play out a season and players be paid for that.

"Sorry Paul, the industry, like the web industry, is smart enough to deal in uniques now"

Sorry HO, I wasnt talking about people watching online, that is a very small portion. What NBL.TV gives the NBL is coverage of every game to sell/give to broadcasters, as it has this year with Sky Sports.

If iiNet resigns as major sponsor it will be in no small part because of the strong exposure in NZ which is a growing market for them.

Re uniques, some sponsors/advertisers like lots of unique viewers and others like a steady market they can get repeat exposure to, depends what they are trying to achieve.

Come next rights deal, the NBL has greater flexibility in what it can do because it already has every game covered. Whether they can leverage that we will see.

Re the subscriber numbers, that will have little to no effect on a TV network, they will just look at the viewer numbers.

Kristina kicked George Colbran out of an NBL directors' meeting in Sydney yesterday and told him she didn't believe him that the Crocs were insolvent haha.

What a joke. How can she say that she didn't see this coming? The Townsville Bulletin unveiled amid the 0-10 losing streak that the club had been running at a loss of around half a million a season for some time and that the board members had to kick in an extra half mil to close out season 2011/12. After much prodding Colbran even admitted it publically.

These aren't the symptoms of a club with a bright long term future.

The club should have put their hand up mid season though. If they came out and said, "look, we will finish this season ok, but if we are to continue next year we are going to need to adopt the community model. Expressions of interest start today. Who's in?"

Now it's way too late. But they were probably to embarassed or stubborn to admit it at that time, especially in the midst of one of the worst Crocs regular seasons on record.

Re-signing Mitch Norton, however, was such an unclassy move...

If an owner is chipping in $500k/yr to keep a club going doesn't that entitle them to some advertising or recognition ?

Classy or not Im sure that the signing was done with the best of intentions, I fail to see how a group of people who have supported basketball to the tune of 2.5 million over the last 5 years would openly and deliberately sign a young player to a long term deal knowing they were about to shut the whole thing down.

I suspect that as happened last year on the GC the real money man behind the operation, ie the person(s) who were actually responsible for tipping in the required funds to run the show either ran out of $ or simply wanted to put their money elsewhere.

Lets assume there are 5 owners, 4 have been tipping n 50k a season and 1 has been putting in 500k (all by way of loan accounts in the parent company) its been like that for a while and although far from ideal its simply the way things are. The money has always been there when needed with a hope that the business will turn around as the "new NBL" grows. 2 of these owners (the 50k a year ones) actively run the club, sign players/coaches and make the business decisions going forward, while the other 3 guys keep the running of the club at arms length and sit on the board. The 2 running the club could well have signed Norton in good faith as while they realised the club was losing money, a top up has been there in the past and they assumed it would be there again 2 get things over the line next season. Probably a fair assumption on their behalf as they were happy to put another 50k up. Massive problem though when Mr 500k a year decides enough is enough, he calls a meeting announcing he cant contunie putting his $ in and bang the club has a 500k(or more) funding hole and is technically insolvent. We then end up with the annoncement we got yesterday.

The part that is making me laugh though is that BA are now trying to force the company to continue, citing they havnt given enough notice of withdrawl from the NBL. If the companies line of credit has dried up how can they continue? Trading while insolvent is illegal and carries a whole heap of ramifications for the directors from ASIC.

People forget the Kristina pretyt much left NSW broke after she was premier..she thinks you can spend your way out of trouble but as we have seen all around the globe recently that a fine balacne is required to ensure everyone can survive.

BA can't force Townsville to hold the license as mentioned above they will just liqudate and be done with it then it

If those same owners simply want to walk because they have decided not to subsidise that club, and they haven't read the terms of their ownership obligations then that simply too bad.

I don't believe that was the case. More likely BRB mismanaged the release.

"7 team league is entirely untenable. And it's way too short a turn around to include another team in next year's comp from scratch. It's Crocs or nothing."

Not necessarily the case. The FFA brought in the West Sydney Wanderers in essentially 1 offseason (because they had to), and look how well that turned out for them. The club is being valued at around $20m.

I think there should be an autonomous commission under BA that controls NBL revenue and expenditure. With BA finally developing a national database the NBL is best to stay inside the tent, even if in their own tent inside the tent!!

Total restructure may be the answer, re badge it, re-promote it and re-evaluate the whole thing, like they did when soccer was changed to the A-League...

It will take some courage and huge kahonas by BA and the NBL, but as I see it the writing is well and truly on the wall.

If we need to join SEABL and change the NBL to a tiered comp, with conferences, reduce costs and reinvigorate the sport in this country, then by heck let's start doing the numbers and putting our thinking caps on???

I think we may be flogging a dead horse folks, sorry to say!!

I don't think they need to completely blow it up. If three of the teams have made money this season, there's scope for all to do the same. Revamping would be far riskier than improving and making incremental changes. But no more fucking around - start making the right changes immediately. The NBL can't have the majority of its biggest fans and players as critics and right now we're given ample opportunity to find fault.

Certainly, do not increase the cap. I think the cap could even be reduced slightly without losing many key players. Alternatives might be shaving costs with things like reducing the minimum salary (which I think is too high).

What might be a better path is to give less-powerful clubs a reasonable chance to compete without spending as much money. There'd have to be ways to achieve this. Every team bar Adelaide has seen recent post-season action and all fans need to feel like they have the chance of supporting a finals team either this season or next.

One potential change we've seen before would be permitting three imports with the proviso that one be pulled up from the SEABL (McFarlin, Ferguson, Massingale, etc). We're seeing a lot of bargain imports come through that have the potential to have a greater impact than another $40-60k player.

Another is a points cap concession that gave lower-ranked teams a bit more of a chance to assemble a stronger roster or squeeze in better free agents.

Is there anything else that might help?

Hey Isaac, this has been said before but apparently I am told that the NBL rules already allow 3 imports per team.

It's just that clubs can't afford it?

The BA rule states something like 2 imports with an exception according to NBL rules which allow 3 imports each

There used to be a rule permitting this (back in the days of the Cannons) but I don't believe it currently exists.

Imports can be brought in cheap and so costs wouldn't necessarily be an issue. We haven't seen a three import team in many years.

(Unless you count each Marty Clarke year. Har har.)

Staff, marketing, venue, etc. If the Crocs can lose $400k/year (which assumes some years are higher than that) up in Townsville, more would be possible in Sydney where every cost would be greater.

No need for a player points cap anymore ,it's not making the comp even . Seems NZ top Perth second 36ers bottom , if there is another season at all .

As a contingency, would they look at bringing in the Supercats as the next strongest team or Bendigo to fill the 8th spot.

They must have an 8th team to meet there contractual agreements with Channel 10.Bendigo showed with a bit of imagination they could reconfig there stadium to fir more in.I think Geelong would love to but the stadium is an issue. Whichever team it would be BA would have to throw some cash at them to get them up and moving.

'021, they may have forecast a small loss in early years or not made projected crowd figures. Or needed to pay extra players because of injury.

Paul, BA have been building a national database for over a decade. I think you believe too much of their propaganda - and yes, I do realise you also criticise them.

for what it is worth for the first time in 15 years i had my name and email address taken by a database before being allowed to play social the other night

That IS a big change

How many times do we need to talk about the doom and gloom, wathing a team go down and players, coaches, support staff, fans all become broken hearted?

All I am saying here is that the current model doesn't seem to be working, but minor changes are not going to work either, they have been done and dusted...

Time for a REAL change!!

Sorry, that was me above. Always do that!

This mess shows the massive disconnect from BA down to grassroots. There has been plenty of talk about an 11 team comp for months....what a joke!!

If SEABL is swallowed up by BA it will be bled dry into the rabble the NBL has become.

If BA could only afford some decent administrators to bring things together there might be a chance a national basketball comp will be relevant in 10 years.

Washed up political figurines and ex-players can't run the game.

And no self respecting business person is going to pump money into a black hole.

In fairness to BA, which can improve plenty, the NBL is in better shape than when they took it over.