So how does that work in Victoria where they have the best competition but no defined areas?

#373, they couldn't have all been 1v4 matchups! Both semis in each of those grades were really one sided. The West v North 16s and the Norwood v West 18s were 2v3.

Defined district areas mean leave little choice. If something goes wrong at one club, do you expect the parents to move their child just to play for another club?

No it isn't working in sanfl. 7 out of 10 clubs are going broke and the comp is uncompetitve.

And most of the Melbourne clubs are concentrated on the eastern side and they have heaps more movement.

Maybe clubs here need to be more focused on being competitive rather than focusing on seniors. If you have a good u10 or 12 team and you give them good coaching all the way through. Why would they nice and why would you not have the best kids?

Explain that to South Panthers who have not won a game in 3 years if u18 football! They all have to recruit and pay players at senior level rather than promote juniors. And that's why they are broke.

They don't develop players. They take players from amatuer clubs who develop them.

If they were, how does a basketballer like Tim Kloasen who has NEVER played for a club in football get drafted over all of these develop footballers from sanfl clubs?

And if you hadn't noticed sanfl clubs have dropped a team and amatuer clubs are struggling to field teams.

So why are more kids player basketball in Victoria than afl?

And why are some schools not even fielding football teams?

Football isn't increaseing participation rates.

Anon, don't bother biting. "Really" is a big a troll as Marcus Camby. I think in Really's perfect world Div 1 would be Sturt 1, Sturt 2, Sturt 3, Sturt 4.

No Jack. That's not a perfect world. That's just a scare mongerer attitude like the Liberal party would role out. All clubs putting forth a similar effort and focus on the juniors would be beat case. Creating a high level string competition.

Denying what works in other states and complaining about how we as a state compare is just ignorant and irresponsible.

Look at what works in other markets and take what is best for your own market. Thinking we should be guided by a dieing sanfl policy because it makes things easier for you to not do any work or improvement to have player recruitment and development is just a falsehood.

We need 10 strong clubs in all grades. 2 strong clubs (forrestville really only in girls), is not enough and those complaing need to look at what they are - or arent doing to get to their level. I suggest those complaining about others successes aren't doing anything to improve their own - and by doing something means actually doing something, not sniping from the stands.

We cannot compare to the sanfl other than learning not to spend more than you earn. The sanfl has the funds coming through the afl Nd have an ownership in 2 afl teams. . Not sure how ba is supporting BSA but at some stage we have to realise that it isn't a level playing field in sport. The numbers will always have it. Just have to get the numbers.

Speaking of which.
Why are girls playing netball in a 2 team world comp? Surely our game is much more attractive. Just not being marketed well. The opportunities for girls in basketball far exceed those for a girl playing netball yet not even a competition when it comes to the numbers of participants. Time ba recognised that there is 50% of the population that they really aren't targeting well enough IMO.

More players have moved to Norwood than Forestville or Sturt.

Why can't it be the clubs responsibility to improve?

Agreed clubs need to take responsibility for their status

loyalty is great - but it is not the common currency in basketball.

tell me last time a player was selected / promoted / encouraged by loyalty.

in my workplace loyalty is seen as a dud hand for someone that is stuck / in a rut and going nowhere.

i agree loyalty is a good thing but means nothing in todays 'live for now' existence.

Clydetheglide is correct, we need 10 strong clubs. There will always be a variation between the top and bottom clubs and teams, but that is expected. I think the biggest issue with clubs is player turnover.

I looked at one group in U18 just recently to see the difference in players from U12 to U18. Surprise, surprise, the top club had basically the same team from U12 meaning that that group had been playing together for up to 15 seasons. Of all the players playing at the club in U12, most were still there 7 years later.

With the bottom teams, there were no players from U12 still playing U18. A pretty sad inditement. While a handful had moved clubs, most had been lost to basketball.

Obviously, a team with core players that has played together for 7 years and has been able to develop under a consistent coaching style will stand a better chance of winning and being stronger than a team looking for the next big thing each year. For a team/club to be super competitive, they need to look long term and seek stability.

I am keen on zones, but not strict zone rules. I believe all players are best off at their closest club and that club should have "first bite" at that player, but obviously if that player is not happy at that club and wants to play at another club or not play basketball, then it is not in the best interest in the sport for that player to play elsewhere.

Jack. Isn't that how it works now? How often does a person from Gawler start playing for Forestville?

Anon. District clubs are not third world. They have options that they choose not to take. We continually see weaker clubs put all their eggs into their ABA basket then cry foul when a junior leaves. ????

Grand Final berths:

Boys

Sturt 9 out of 10
Norwood 3 out of 10
Forestville 2 out of 10
Centrals 2 out of 10
Eastern 1 out of 10
West 1 out of 10
North 1 out of 10
Woodville 1 out of 10

NOTE:
Sturt have 2 teams in the U16 boys final
Norwood and Centrals have their first team in the U10 div 2 final.

Girls

Forestville 7 out of 10
Sturt 7 out of 10
Norwood 2 out of 10
Centrals 1 out of 10
Estern 1 out of 10
Southern 1 out of 10
Western 1 out of 10

NOTE:
Eastern and Western have their first team in the U10 div 2 final.

Overall

Sturt 16 out of 20
Forestville 9 out of 20
Norwood 5 out of 20
Centrals 3 out of 20
Eastern 2 out of 20
North 1 out of 20
Woodville 1 out of 20
Southern 1 out of 20
West 1 out of 20
Western 1 out of 20
South 0 out of 20

from the stats room, hope you don't mind me joining in...

Div 1 only, boys:
Sturt 4
Norwood 1
West 1
Centrals 1
Eastern 1
Woodville 1
North 1
Southern 0
Forestville 0
South 0

Div 1 only, girls:
Sturt 4
Forestville 4
Norwood 1
Southern 1

Jack Toft couldn't have said it better. My sentiments exactly. And what's with clubs bringing in kids from country areas - they can barely make trainings and are unfamiliar with plays. Talk about instability!!!

Jack,

Are you suggesting that kids should quit basketball rather than move clubs?

Really, because I like you and you have taken some time to prepare your hook. I would not like kids to drop out of the sport. As I have said, the better teams have one thing in common - stability. When a player stops playing, a club should ask itself why and is there anything we need to change or improve on. Dumb clubs don't.

Once again, have a look at the player lists of any top 4 team and you'll find most of those players have been playing as a group for some time. Look at the bottom teams and you'll see new team lists each season as well as FIFO players who play winter season only.

Jack,

Are you suggesting it would be better for kids to quit than be allowed to move clubs?

from the stats room, there are two berths for each grandfinal so numbers should read out of 20. Still doesn't diminish the domination by Sturt.

Boys

Sturt 9 out of 20
Norwood 3 out of 20
Forestville 2 out of 20
Centrals 2 out of 20
Eastern 1 out of 20
West 1 out of 20
North 1 out of 20
Woodville 1 out of 20

NOTE:
Sturt have 2 teams in the U16 boys final
Norwood and Centrals have their first team in the U10 div 2 final.

Girls

Forestville 7 out of 20
Sturt 7 out of 20
Norwood 2 out of 20
Centrals 1 out of 20
Estern 1 out of 20
Southern 1 out of 20
Western 1 out of 20

Still think Jack Toft has hit nail on the head. Still believe most country players are disruptive if they can't make trainings. Would love to know what others think ....

Umm, dko..........no.

Yes there are two berths in each grand final, but it is not possible for Sturt to fill all of them. For exdample, in Div 1 boys there are 5 grand finals containing a total of ten teams. Sturt can't have all ten berths because they only have five teams in those grades.

Maybe leave the stats to the experts...

Still think Jack Toft has hit nail on the head. Still believe most country players are disruptive if they can't make trainings. Would love to know what others think ....

Anon 793, check out the player lists in u18 and compare them to when they were u12. There is some movement but the issue is that some clubs have used say 15 players for their div 1/2 over the time and they have years of experience whereas some clubs would have gone through 50 players.

The best way to stop poaching or player loss is to create a culture where kids feel safe, included, are enjoying the sport and learning/developing. The numbers lost to the sport outweigh any poached.

Jack,

Do you suggest kids should be forced to quit rather than be allowed to move clubs?

Actually we have more teams in the competition this season than any time in the last 6 years. Especially at u10 and u 12 level. But good try with the propaganda.

How exactly does having zones help? What is stopping clubs from developing their own areas now?

Do you really think Forestville is doing clinics at West Lakes and stealing all of Wests kids?

Do you think kiss quitting the sport is better than allowing the to move clubs?

How else can clubs know if they are not providing a good service if people can't make choices?

Lol - kiss quitting ??? -What team was gene Simmons and Paul Stanley on before they quit?

No!

Okay follow your logic but Sturt and Norwood have 2 teams each in u16 div 2 so at least the numbers should be Sturt 9 from 11 (Sturt 3 v Sturt 2- Sturt 3 to win), and Norwood 2 from 11.

Jack,

Do you suggest kids should be forced to quit rather than be allowed to move clubs?

Really, WTF? What are you on? How would you force a kid to quit? "Oh, I'm sorry Mr Carter, we are dropping your son from Div 1 to Div 2 because we have poached a kid from West Adelaide and our club won't let you transfer" "Oh Mr Smith, we need to drop your son to Div 3 because we have got this great girl to play Div 1, but her brother needs to play Div 1 as well for transport reason. Therefore, because Carter is going to Div 2 someone needs to go to Div 3" Is that what you are on about?

Jack,

If a kid wants to move clubs, do you think that they should only have the option of quitting rather than being allowed to move?

Well der......

Jack,

Should they be allowed to move. Or should their only option be to quit?

I think my position is quite clear.

"I believe all players are best off at their closest club and that club should have "first bite" at that player, but obviously if that player is not happy at that club and wants to play at another club or not play basketball, then it is in the best interest of the sport for that player to play elsewhere."

The problem is not the system. Happy kids and happy families do not leave clubs. The reason the competition is so lopsided is that the weaker clubs are too lazy to fix the crap they dish out. There are coaches coaching Div 1 teams at some clubs that wouldn't even get a Div 3 job at the stronger clubs. Eventually kids and their parents see that they are better off elsewhere so they move on.

All you bleating hearts should stop having a whinge and try getting your clubs' own backyards in order. Why should the successful clubs suffer just because the rest of you either don't have the skill or inclination to solve your own problems?

Consider that we are all on the same page here and it reads:

We need to improve our junior competition. We need all clubs to do what is best for
our kids and the game. A strong competition is a successful competition. We want and need all the clubs to have success. Yes we have differing perceptions on what should and shouldn't be done. But we are all passionate about our kids and the game.

I suggest most of us come from a cross section of the district clubs, but, we all see that our club cannot be successful if they are one of a few clubs that are competitive. We cannot compete successfully nationally over time if our competition isnt strong from u18 to u10. Yes we have seen success spikes but few and far between. I would much rather see my kids team finish 10th knowing that on their day they could beat the top team than finish first and beating the second team by 30pts and the bottom team by 100 pts (in div1!!!!!!!)

So how do we turn this passion into a successful junior basketball competition? Collectively and as rate paying basketball citizens, we need to stand up and demand that BA and BSA turn this poor performing system around. Remove the clubs that can't or won't align and get the grass roots of basketball growing.

IMHO

Now I have to work out how to get into the ear BSA.

+1 Clydetheglide

Jack is also right. Getting kids playing basketball is really important.

I don't know much about district basketball, just what I observed as I parent of two girls who played at Woodville for four years. During this time Woodvilles younger girls teams really began to struggle. My youngest daughters team would get pumped week in week out. Despite this each season Woodville would enter them in div 1 only to lose by as much as a 100+. Obviously this is not much fun so kids just stopped playing, had their parents move them to different sports or they left for a more competlitive club. In their last year at the club Woodville lost so many kids they couldn't field an under 12's girls team so my youngest daughter had no option but to leave the club.

We now live in Melbourne and my youngest plays rep for Altona. She loves playing there. They have 21 <14 girls domestic teams across 4 divisions which have players from complete beginners to state level representatives. All games are compettative across divisions with a focus on enjoying the game and developing skills. This set up also allows even the completely new kids access to high level coaching as the rep coaches are involved in numerous domestic teams.

From these teams the rep club field 4 <14 girls rep teams. Again these kids play competitive games across the VJBL as the are not guaranteed to play at a particular level due to the grading set up where the level is decided by wins and losses.

I am amazed that basketball participation in VIc is so high. Altona are able to field 50+ rep teams and they are considered a smaller club and I haven't even mentioned the social basketball teams.

IMHO (but uneducated) this is the reason why basketball is so popular in Vic. There is a team or a game for everyone and, more importantly, these games are generally competitive. This means, for the most part, everyone is enjoying their basketball and having fun.

I think some sort of promotion/ relegation system could work in Adelaide provided some of the clubs put their ego's away and thought long term. I also think the the domestic set up could add value if someone creative could put together a model that works in Adelaide.

one step into making it a more competitive competition is getting rid of magic and making it easier for those in the western suburbs
three teams one area is never going to work

Supercoach,

How is getting rid of magic (and creating less teams) the answer to a more competitive competition with more kids participating?

Surely there is a better solution than just getting rid of some teams, one that helps all clubs......

Jack,

Do you believe kids should be forced to quit rather than be allowed to move clubs?

look at what happened to west when magic and west tried their "merger" they suddenly improved in a lot of teams and are still reaping some of the benefits of that
what do you think if magic was disbanded and those kids had to head to west and woodville. Straight away those two clubs would improve and would continue to improve as there is one less club fighting for the same group of kids
currently west are stuggling in numbers in those younger boys and a boost from magic would help go a long way
currently woodville are struggling in number in the girls and a boost in those numbers would help a lot as well

therefore we now have woodville and west competing where they havent competed before

Can another magic type club sitution occur in another part of the Adelaide
Junior District Competition ?.

10 years ago woodville and west Fri nights was like port v Norwood football. Woodville regularly won div 3-4 titles and occasionally d2. Even less d1. West regularly competed for d1 titles and often won lower grades.

the reason why magic is attractive is because of their low fees and the ability to win in lower grades because those kids should be playing in a higher division like say at WEST AND WOODVILLE

Those clubs doing well seem to be the ones getting new families into the sport.
Sturt have an Aussie hoops program as well as a 30+ team domestic ocmpetition.