Isaac
Years ago
Thought this deserved a thread separate from the main club statement thread.
As should have been obvious after Marty survived the other weekend and has now been confirmed by the club's recent press release, Marty Clarke will see out his coaching contract with the 36ers.
Nice to have confirmation either way. Good luck to the team for the duration of the season. Finish strong!
Melbourne Boy
Years ago
Someone should start countdown banner at the arena for how many games until Marty is gone.
The NBA teams do it where the number starts with how many playoff games are needed to be won for a championship and after each win a number gets crossed off.
Jack Toft
Years ago
At least this provides some certainty for the players, spectators and coach.
The team might actually come home with their spinnaker out.
paul
Years ago
With the team three games behind Wollongong and with three games left against Wollongong, now is the time to get some wind in the sails.
If the 36er do string a few wins together the final round game in Wollongong could be for fourth spot, but Adelaide dont have a good record in milestone games in the Gong!
Malcolm Gordan
Years ago
tell you what, dont speak ill of the terrible coach on the threesixtydegree facebook page. Mitch Creek is having a right sook about it on there. Stick it up them I say, about time they learn that the fan is there true employer...
Spinner
Years ago
I guess in the end the decission was made because they didn't have a ready and proven alternative. All good and well to sack Clarke because he's crap, but you need someone to come in and rescue the season. A new coach would have to make finals as a bare minimum and although that may still be possible, they would probably be out in straight sets in the finals.
Go like crazy for the remainder of the season and see where we end up, but whatever happens, make sure there is a new coach waiting in the wirngs to take over at season's end and build a team ready for next season.
Xx
Years ago
Malcolm your a f*****g moron. Nothing Mitch said on there was 'sooking' he was simply asking people to remain positive and that positive thinking and culture Is more beneficial and constantly asking for the coach to be sacked etc etc. pretty poor form having an unwarranted crack at a guy who gives everything for the club and has been arguably one of the better performers up until his injury.
At seasons end when players like Mitch and Gibbo leave because of pissant 'supporters' like yourself you will have no one else to blame.
I for one don't care much about the coaching appointments, as the most important factor carrying into next season is the playing group.
Clarke and Radford were always going to see out their contracts with the Sixers. They Sixers can quietly canvas coaching options between now and seasons end. Vall for applications and make your choice. hopefully the Sixers wont pick aother dud!!
I for one would be far more concerned about any involvement Cole has with the Sixers. Cole has never been a person who manages finances well. Sure he might have a US backer, but this could quite seriously be the end of the Sixers if he gets the reins.Be very, very careful Sixers.
No Deal!!
Years ago
Absolutely the right decision IMO. No point changing coach at this point unless you have a solid replacement ready to go.
Isaac
Years ago
Melbourne Boy, here's why I think that's tacky: he's presumably leaving regardless. No need to stick the knife in.
The guy gave up a good job interstate to do his best for Adelaide. I don't doubt that he worked hard while here, yet just couldn't get it done. Not like he didn't show up or misappropriated funds or undermined the club - he just seemingly hasn't cut it as an NBL coach, at least not enough to get an extension.
Now, his previous job has long been filled and he might not get another pro gig here in Australia. He took a bold step, tried his best, and what next?
I don't think it's unreasonable to think he should be replaced (I think he should've been earlier), or offer criticism of his coaching (many of us have), but I don't see much point in rubbing it in.
Kobe24
Years ago
Good to know one way or the other. Definitely looking forward to new beginnings next season, but for now, good luck to the current roster and coaches...
Loco
Years ago
Whilst the news sucks in my opinion, at least the club has some certainty around the next few weeks.
Adelaide has never been an organisation to take swift action and make changes - I don't think anyone really expected any other outcome here.
Spinner
Years ago
Can we at least play "hit the road jack" at the last game? Only joking!!
Isaac
Years ago
I expected a change a few weeks back, but after that passed, I think it was too late unless there is free money floating around.
Any coincidence that the team made this announcement after the team finally won a game i wonder. He and the rat have somehow found a situation where as bad as they are at there job based on results and personnel movement each season they are going to full fill the contract. I dont agree with it, i dont they will win many more games, but it is what it is. I do feel some comfort in knowing Radford will never coach on any level at the NBL level again after this season. Marty Id like to see in a key assistant role though, has alot to offer.
QUOTE "derailed" Loco:
"Whilst the news sucks in my opinion, at least the club has some certainty around the next few weeks."
That's lovely, I'm glad that you're happy now, but you have to be damned stupid, if you expected anything different. I'm not singling you out, the boards here have been overrun with passionate dicks with no brain$.
"I don't think anyone really expected any other outcome here."
FFS, I get the point that you may not think very often, but why has there been so much crap dumped on the SOS group, if that was the case?
WTF, my bad, the "paying" fans should rule the board.
BTW, did you contribute to dumping on the SOS group?
DB5
Years ago
Don't say it often, but I agree with anon.
Marty can coach, and I believe with a head coach in the gig, and him as a lead assistant he could have success at NBL level. I personally think he jumped a bit too far into the deep end this time though.
Marty is an excellent coach of young men at a youth level (U23's).
He just has the wrong style of coaching to be effective coaching MEN at NBL Level.
That doesn't mean he doesnt know or understand the game though, but you need to be more than an X's, O's and skills coach to coach and manage MEN.
anon #176 interesting that most said the same about Dunlap back in the day. And I'm not disagreeing but they develop skills coaching Youth teams because that's what they did.
Dunlap is now an NBA coach. Who's to say with time Clarke won't develop his skills to becoming a very good coach of adults?
Most coaches started at a Junior level. Beveridge and McLeod are two example of very good Youth coaches whom have developed into good coaches of adults.
Shame Adelaide's situation meant Clarke needed immediate results. Maybe the fans would have been more forgiving if the final Smyth years and Ninnis' time hadn't been so difficult and frustrating.
Spinner
Years ago
Basketball is a bit like footy in that regard - advantages for a coach who has played at least at the level he is coaching.
Tennis and other individual sports are coached by technichians who have not necessarily played at the highest level.
Isaac
Years ago
Clarke played 120 NBL games, including in a championship team.
Spinner
Years ago
Yeh - I should have said "usually" an advantage!!
I'd like the posters who bitch about great junior coaches not being able to coach men to EXPLAIN WHY they believe this is the case.
Gordie McLeod did it. Dunlap, obviously. There's two examples.
Everyone has to start coaching somewhere. Even Clarke. I said it before and I will say it again, once there is a parting of ways Clarke (if he's still in the NBL system) will be involved with a Championship team before Adelaide wins one.
No he wont. It will be a while before Clarke even gets an assistant coaching position in the NBL again.
He's had 3 years here with a stacked team this season and the 36ers still suck which will be a big enough line to rule through him for most teams. I don't think he will ever get a HC gig in the NBL again but if he did would be at least 5-10 years away and only if he's willing to do it for chicken feed.
BJF
Years ago
add Bevo to the list of coaches that transitioned from juniors
Marcus Camby
Years ago
I will miss apportioning the blame in a fair and just manner in the Sack Marty threads.
Perhaps there willl be a Re-Sign Marty thread in the weeks to come.
Anthony
Years ago
Actually beginning to think that the problem although lies in the head coach, he seems to maintain good support from his players. Perhaps the problem is he lacks a better assistant coach. I have heard plenty of rumours regarding the behaviour of the assistant and less abour the lead coach. Our team is playing better this year than the previous two albeit with better personnel. But what if we had a Steve Breheny or even a Jan Stirling as an assistant someone who has a very strong history of success but good game nous to boot I don't think Marty has that support.
QUOTE Isaac:
"Melbourne Boy, here's why I think that's tacky: he's presumably leaving regardless. No need to stick the knife in."
Agree.
"The guy gave up a good job interstate to do his best for Adelaide. I don't doubt that he worked hard while here, yet just couldn't get it done. Not like he didn't show up or misappropriated funds or undermined the club - he just seemingly hasn't cut it as an NBL coach, at least not enough to get an extension."
Agree.
I have no doubt that with his previous employment security, he would've demanded a contract that locked him in with the the 36ers, & a negotiable extension on a performance basis.
"Now, his previous job has long been filled and he might not get another pro gig here in Australia. He took a bold step, tried his best, and what next?"
Absolutely, the door's long been shut on him returning to the AIS. It's going to be tough for Marty & his family, but do passionate fans care????
"I don't think it's unreasonable to think he should be replaced."
In hindsight, yes, but no need to stress SOS resources any more than they are already this season.
"or offer criticism of his coaching (many of us have), but I don't see much point in rubbing it in."
He tried his best, & it's obvious that he delivered less than expected. His pride would be hurting more than any poster here, so to all, back off on the constant derision.
Very Old
Years ago
Marty needed to get himself another assistant coach once it was clear that some players had problems with Radford, that happened early in the three years, loyalty or stubbornness ? either way it did not help his progression as a HC. I thought that Stirling had been mentioned as providing some mentoring in the second year - but if that door was opened, I think Marty closed it very fast.
Isaac
Years ago
Radford was the reigning championship assistant. Not like he had no coaching background:
Radford arrived at the Wildcats ahead of the 2008/09 season after five years as head coach in Tasmania of Wynyard and seven in charge of the North West Tasmania Thunder, as well as time as network coach with the Australian Under-19s Emus team that he has been doing since 2007.
He and first-year Perth head coach Rob Beveridge guided the Wildcats to the 2009/10 NBL championship and after two years in WA, Radford has accepted a position as assistant coach with the Adelaide 36ers, which will also move him closer to his Tasmania-based family.
Loco
Years ago
Rough day Anon?
I disagree with meds too, but going off them without consulting a doctor is not the best idea.
Throw in the internet and no good can come of your situation.
Try and relax - it's all going to be ok.
@ Anon#178 completely agree, some adapt quickly, some take a while and some never make the transition. Dunlap was the first option, he changed and adapted quickly. Marty is the second and possibly with time if he doesnt reinvent himself the third.
Loco
Years ago
And no, I've never "dumped" on the SOS group - I have been and remain a supporter of theirs and posted as such in here as recently as this week.
I'm confused.
@ #207, you're kidding right? you DO NOT coach adults the same way you coach juniors, its very different. Being a great junior coach means jack when it comes to coaching adults.
Being a great junior coach gives you the grounding to progress to coaching adults but unless you change, mature and broaden your approach you'll struggle to control, motivate and mange strong and testing personalities.
The issue isn't the transition from coaching juniors to adults.
The issue is that MC doesn't get results. For better or worse, pro coaches get judged by wins and losses. 30 percent winning record = can't coach. Not fair I know but welcome to pro sport.
Same in most professional fields. Doctor that tries hard, is friendly but is only successful in 30 percent of his/her operations = bad doctor. Same with lawyers, chefs, builders, etc.
At best you can argue that the above comparison isn't fair as a coach in many instances is only as good as the team he has. Our talent hasn't been the issue. I understand that we spend the full cap and Clarke has been hands on with his recruiting. I refuse to give him a get out of jail card as say you could give Dunlap in his first season coaching the Bobcats.
Speaking of Dunlap, I hate the Dunlap and Clarke comparisons. They are almost polar opposites. Dunlap got results at the expense of his relationship with his players. Clarke doesn't get results but appears to have the love of his players.
The young Adelaide players improved dramatically under Dunlap. For guys like Maher, Cat, Rillie, Blakemore and even some of the other development players who didn't play NBL but dominated State League i heard that training under Dunlap and Spencer was like going to a Duke in terms of development.
I just don't see the same results with the Adelaide players. IE DJ would be a beast if he had 4 years of Dunlap. Same with Creek.
Dunlap's problem was that he pissed off players with his demanding/intense ways in particular the veterans. The issue was never whether or not he could coach.
He basically took us to the Final Four each season and certainly laid the foundation for the back to back championships (taking nothing away from Smyth and Breheney who were brilliant those two seasons).
How can you compare Dunlap's results with that of Clarke's
The fact that players have to resort to social media to defend Clarke shows the lack of discipline and unprofessionalism that has crept into the 36ers under Clarke.
At the end of the day the proof will be in how quick Clarke gets another head coaching gig at NBL level.
If he gets one straight away then maybe all of the above is incorrect and he really is held in a very high regard in the Australian basketball community.
If no other team gives him a job in the next decade then maybe he just isn't as good as some are trying to make out.
The free market tends to sort these debates out.
My prediction is he won't be coaching in the NBL anytime soon. For Clarke's sake I hope he does...as long as it is not in Adelaide.
Loco
Years ago
I'm not sure how another club could justify hiring Clarke with the results he's posted at NBL level.
Camel 31
Years ago
In reply to questions onair@fiveaa . Clarke : ' 7 games were lost by small margins , all in different ways , giving up a big lead , being right in it all the way , 17 freethrows were missed in regulation and losing in overtime etc etc. We haven't gotta game closer ala Cedric lisch Ervin etc . A little bitta Dibson , Johnson hadda shooting slump and Schenscher's been good .
No , well those players new to Adelaide were not used to their fans booing them , it doesn't happen around the league , and yes , it did effect them , they wondered what's going on here ....'
Marty's problem is he over-coaches the game.
Technical coaches are easy to come by. If you're diligent at researching and doing your homework it's relatively easy to become one.
It is the coaches which develop a 'feel' for the game who succeeed. When you have the horses the name of the game is to let the talent do the work. Anything you introduce which stops the talent from shining is a negative. Keep it simple, manage the egos and if you've got good talent you will win more than you lose.
#327 is spot on. Robotic X's and O's which doesn't allow for individual talent strengths and weaknesses will never allow you to get the best from your talent.
That kind of coaching may work with the hand selected elite kids that go to the AIS but it wont work in the NBL where you have much bigger ego's and diverse talent.
Loco
Years ago
^ Agree with that. Feels like we've gone away from natural strengths and a free flowing style. Looked a lot better vs. Sydney when the shackles were loosened.
Look, you have to have some structure, rules and guidelines or if you like a "framework" to operate under but at NBL level you have to embrace the strengths and creativity of the talent you have and hide or cover their weaknesses.
If you dont you wont get the best from them.
I'm not saying this is Marty because he could play, but our game is becoming far too polluted with "Text Book" coaches who never played the game.
Too many coaches do their apprenticeship from a book or on youtube, never really played the game to any level, just spent hundreds of hours reading books and watching videos. They are technically strong but have no feel for the game.
Ok for coaching kids but they get found out at snr level.
Isaac
Years ago
Our game at what level? Certainly not at NBL level.
Lemanis played. Bevo's coaching ability wouldn't be questioned; don't know his playing background off-hand. Heal and Anstey certainly played. Clarke played NBL. McLeod definitely played! Fearne played too - college, NBL, ABL, etc. A lot of the assistants are former players too.
ABL-level features ex-players too - Sapwell, Brooks, Simons, Breheny, etc.
If you're griping about junior coaches, the sheer volume of those required and the often voluntary nature means that they won't always be players.
sixtiesrockstar
Years ago
Clarke's stubbornness to run "his" plan for every game and getting the same results, and thinking things would change if they kept working. At this moment with this team his system doesn't work. It's funny how the injury to Creek and then Schenscher going down last week forced a change to his system and for the better. His rotation plans had to change, etc. Against the Kings the Sixers looked more like a SMYTH team than a Clarke team. Intense defence, players playing with momentum as we're on court for longer periods, faster transition free flowing offence, getting steals in midcourt and turning into fastbreaks.The same things the fans on this forum have been posting. Basketball sure is a funny game.
Jack Toft
Years ago
I think the last time the Sixers played a 2-3 zone for more than 5 minutes was under Smyth.
paul
Years ago
"Against the Kings the Sixers looked more like a SMYTH team than a Clarke team. Intense defence, players playing with momentum as we're on court for longer periods, faster transition free flowing offence, getting steals in midcourt and turning into fastbreaks.The same things the fans on this forum have been posting."
That has been commented on a lot, but interestingly Nathan Croswell says the difference was actually the opposite, with players taking shorter stints on court so they could play at higher intensity.
http://www.nbl.com.au/news/article/2013/january/r15-preview-adelaide-36ers-v-new-zealand-breakers/
sixtiesrockstar
Years ago
17 subs made during game. This included 6 in 2nd qtr including when Schensh got injured and adjustments had to be made.
We did this total in 3 quarters in the loss to Townsville.
Is that more or less subs?
paul
Years ago
Looks like three more perimeter subs to me against Sydney, and the average stint on court and overall minutes down for Gibson, Cadee and Crosswell.
That would help explain how they could apply more defensive pressure, although I think a change in mindset was just as important.
Peter
Years ago
It is a good decision to let Marty finish his tenure and it displays Club integrity honouring their agreement.
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