Where's his Twitter feed? Has he changed handle? Everyone's still referencing @andrewmbogut when that account shows 8 follows, the name "Jordan" and no tweets.

Yeah Isaac, i can't seem to find Boguts twitter either.

Got to admire the guy

I do find it curious that BA is working on ways to keep kids in Australia to play in the NBL yet the poster child is facilitating the opposite.

Its Andrews money, his facility, his investment, Im sure that he has final say on big ideas, however, he doesnt actually run the place so im sure that the manager of the centre is actually doing all the work and creating the initiatives. I may be wrong though.

because the "poster child" has a vested interest.

sorry, that was meant to have a ? on the end of it.

Great concept!

Twitter: @ab_basketball

I reckon you guys have the BA thing wrong. My understanding is that BA is very concerned about a range of issues concerning College entry, such as:

- ensuring the athlete is presented with all the options and opportunities, not just one the scouts sell
- the scrupulousness of those Scouts, how they behave and their disclosure to the athlete and their parents
- ensuring the athlete understands that the College education in many cases will not be sufficient for chosen employment when they return home
- ensuring the athlete goes to the right school, does not get used as training bait, gets red shirted etc
- ensuring that the athlete understands the difference between junior college, dII and D1 pathways

My understanding is that they were absolutely fine with Bogut going to College, as with Mills, and others. But that for many, the wrong option is presented and accepted.

HO - sorry, I must have missed someting along the way. What exactly is BA doing about having our kids stay at home?

Developing a logical pathway from junior basketball to a possible professional career which allows the opportunity to also build a career? Hmmmmm

Broadening the base of elite players who are exposed to the National team environment to provide inspiration and aspiration? Hmmmmm

Providing opportunities to earn a reasonable living while developing your game to a point where you can pay your way by playing basketball? Hmmmm.

As the parent of a child who has been at National squad level and is now playing in the US, I'm afraid I havent seen any evidence of BA actually doing anything. Its not an exaggeration to say my child has received at least 100 times more interest and communication from US colleges than from BA.

If Bogut (or his staff) is laying out alternatives for young Australians, then kudos to him.

Agree Ankles, My son also played at State and National squad level, but there was no contact or decent pathway after that. He is now attending a college with a strong basketball focus and having a great time.

Ankles, respect what you are saying, but its not what I was commenting on.

The premise earlier in the thread was that BA do not want kids going to College. I don't think that is true.

I think BA see dozens if not hundreds of kids go to College every year, and that many of them make a poor decision based on the pressure of the scout or poor advice. They have been concerned about that for some time.

You guys massively overestimate BA and their capaacity. I have said that here before. They are probably, on a participant to revenue model, probably the worst funded national sporting organisation in Australia.

Not defending what you are criticising them for, its probably all true - just hoping you understand that BA's high performance department probably has less full time staff than a small mid major college. (in fact, probably many less).

BA are very concerned about the amount of talent being taken off to college each year, hence the aborted introduction of the u/23 rule a few years ago that effectively forced NBL teams to talk to AIS kids about playing in the NBL.

For every Mitch Creek there are 10 Corey Maynard's. The 36ers almost got Hugh Greenwood but he swayed the way of college and the life experience that would give him. I wonder what guys like Forman , Holmes , Newley and Ingles think about their decision to play NBL straight away rather than college.

BA, I feel, underestimate significantly the lure of college life. The guys i have spoken to aren't necessarily just going for basketball. I know a number of cases where the recruiter showcased the cheerleaders of the school that gave the recruit an impression of the type of girls he would be "meeting"

There are discussion papers floating various schemes and concepts on how to keep kids in Australia to play rather than this path of college.

My take is that Bogut is very critical of BA's administration and is looking to monetise the process of not just AIS kids but all high end talent in Oz going to College. We have seen time and time again kids go to college only to drop out or return home within a few months ( hi Larry Bird) some of whom are lost from the game completely.

BA could be and should be handling this to protect the game form the poachers. They of course like so many other situations are sitting on their hands.

Another point to consider is that eg St Marys has effectively built its college program on the back of Australian tax payer funded AIS kids. Would it have been better for the NBL and BA for Mills to have played NBL then gone to the NBA like others before him?

Fans yearn for the likes of Newley and Ingles to play in the NBL. College recruiters are limiting the next batch of these types of players being exposed to the Australian public. The NBL needs kids like Dellevedova, Exum and Simmons to be here showcasing how good our home grown talent is and promoting the game to the next generation.

I'm all for keeping talent local and developing it here, and actually really disappointed that players like Bose, etc, don't put in a few more years here to get a higher profile and better options OS, while still strengthening the NBL, but really, do we have the coaching talent to develop the young talent, or will it just go to waste?

Even if the young players get a gig on an NBL team, how many of them get significant minutes/responsibility to develop their talent in the early years compared to what resources are available to college teams for those 3-4 years? They get proportionally more responsibility, a lot of training and coaching resources, often a lot better than we can offer here, so why not make the most of that and get them on the way out and have more to work with after their time at college. Instead of having them wasting away on the end of the bench for a couple of seasons, they're having the focus on them, playing in much larger arenas a lot of the time, given more playing time and more chances to develop their skills...

This is a great initiative, but I agree that there needs to be some overseeing so that players and their families know what to expect and get the proper/full story and not have the scouts pulling swifties, which might fit in better with the BA budget, but instead of limiting the options before they go to college, maximise their options coming OUT of college before they go off to play in some backwater Euro league when they could be growing our league here?

HO - I hear what you are saying but as an ex-employee of the Australian Baseball Federation, I struggle to sympathise with the underfunded plight of BA.

These are not rocket science type issues. I suspect Australia will never have a model which will retain these kids in Australia - unless they are a 'can't miss' talent (and I dont really think there is such a thing), or they have no desire whatsoever for tertiray study, we simply cannot compete (hmmm - do I come back from the US with a usable degree (which may require a single-year conversion at most), no debt, having paid sweet FA to live and had a life experience, or do I pay for all of the above and pay for the privilege of playing, either directly or indirectly - again, not for everybody but if it works for you it doesn't seem a tough decision).

So rather than try and block the US colleges by putting their head in the sand and doing nothing, perhaps they could try actually talking to the kids, staying in touch, providing guidance and advice, staying in touch so whent hey return from college they can contnue to contributeto the game as a player, coach, administrator or volunteer - I storngly believe these sorts of players (the talented but not elite) should be the backbone of the grassroots gamein this country. Make no mistake, I am disillusioned with the process - but I dont think the situation is irretreivable.

I think our current system absolutely fails most of our talented kids (and please make the distinction here between talented and elite - our elites survive but I'm not sure its becasue of the system or in spite of the system). They are squeezed into a one-size-fits-all development program, torn between up to 13 different programs a year and the one key service they need (in my humble opinion), support, guidance and advocacy, is completely absent. I've worked in our deveopment programs across two states for many years and I have, unfortunately, come to the conclusion that their impact is minimal in terms of developing high quality players.

If Melbourne and Brisbane can get the new NBL teams up successfully that will have to help. At least open up another 20 spots at that level. Might give people like Ben Richmond (AIS to Collingwood) another option to stay in the sport. Nothing like having some home grown players to attract support and spectators in any sport.

Ankles, you are now diverging.

As I said, I respect your criticism of BA. I just don't think its manageable and i don't think its something they have the resources to have much control over.

But you now want a staffer at BA dedicated (because they would need to be) to managing relationships with Aussie kids at College. You would know from your extensive ABF experience how hard that is to create.

Again, I don't think BA are trying to block the College experience. To give an example of that, they worked extremely hard, hand in hand with FIBA, to get the whole College eligibility thing resolved in a more favourable way. That is hardly the actions of an organisation trying to block kids going to College. It is certainly NOT the actions of an organisation "putting their head in the sand" is it?

I can be very critical of BA as well, and have been. But BA can only be engaged in the ongoing development of so many players... your expectations are unrealistic.

What you are really asking for is an expansion of their high performance department, to oversee everyone at College. That same HP department is underfunded and stretched as far as I can see.

if you want to fix BA... fix their revenue. Which in large part means states and players have to stop bitching about how much money goes from the grassroots to BA - because compared to other sports it is a pittance.

BA arent looking to block players from going to college, they are considering ways to make staying in Australia more attractive and incentives for NBL clubs to develop young talent.

Neither way is right or wrong, but there needs to be a better balance that there is at the moment where players staying in their own country are the exception and NBL clubs rarely chase the best young talent.

So the big guy who has done little to nothing for Australian basketball is now helping to take young basketball talent from Australia and the NBL. Why is this a good thing for Australian basketball? If you are a good enough young player in Australia you can play colleage ball if thats the path you want to take.

I would argue that Patty only got a look into the NBA because of the Olympics not because of college. Heck , reality is that he is only in the NBA now because Brett Brown through hime a life line.

Coincidence that the only 2 guys ex college to have played legit NBA minutes are 7" plus and can play the game. You could also argue that even Luc was just a role player as he hardly dominated internationally.

I just did #384613, and our best player did not go to College, she's had a handy WNBA and International career though. Likewise Penny, and Kristy, and Liz, and Timmsy, and Snell and Phillips.

Your statement is silly, like mine above is facetious. College is a pathway to NBA, its not THE pathway. You name three guys, two of whom have really played significant NBA minutes. One has still to establish himself in that league.

Drewey and Shane both played in the NBA, and while Drewey spent time at Seton Hall,you could not define that as part of the pathway for him.

Plenty of significant European NBA players did not go to College.

Considering the hundreds and hundreds of our elite male athletes who have gone to College, and not made the NBA, you could also say its a dismal failure as a pathway, and that only those who were going to make the NBA anyway have made it through College.

I concur HO the NBA scouts are all over the globe searching for the next big thing. If you are good enough you will be found and drafted or found and signed.

Remember the buzz when Newley had scouts coming to games in Australia.

Simon Dwight too turned down a contract straight out of the NBL.

More players have gone to the NBA / NBA draft from the NBL than from college.

Draftees from college are:

Longley
Bogut
Mills

*probably forgetting someone there

Australian Players that have played NBL before logging NBA minutes

Longley ( technically correct)
Anderson
Heal
Gaze
Bradtke
Anstey
Jawai

let alone the draft picks like Ingles , Newley, Bruton , Pepper etc etc

There are also a number of imports that have played NBL before making the NBA

Stephen Jackson
Rick Brunson
Doug Overton
Paul Graham - not an NBL import but a state league player
Ricky Grace


all this suggests that the NBA puts a lot of weight behind Professional experience in signing players , unless the talent of the player in question is rare.

hate to pull some facts out for you but all players are eligible to receive payments towards their tuition whilst contracted to an NBL team . Not the teams fault if players doesn't take advantage of free education.

Both Forman and Holmes, when signed as rookies by the 36ers, had university fees covered as part of their contracts. Plus they were paid and had cars/etc included. I remember at the time a college's assistant coach talking trash about Smyth in order to convince one of the players to choose the college route. Talking trash about Smyth is Hoops' job!

One of the examples the colleges gave of the college-then-NBL path was Axel Dench. This was before he exited the NBL.

#384619

So as this is has unwound, its apparent that rather than "doing something to create the pathway", the big man is actually doing something which supports the commercial operation he has established in Melbourne.

Lots of other people have done things that are similar. Guys have run mini tournaments here to allow college scouts to see a bunch of athletes at one tourney for example.

Not sure all this adds up to them being "down to earth guys". Seems to me it adds up to them looking to make cash out of preparing kids for college.

Ease up!

I know of a kid who has been doing some training at the Bogut Academy and initially costs were very low because development and coaching the kid to determine his potential was the first consideration.

If anyone has a first hand comment either way I would prefer to read that, than rumour and finger pointing, really...!?