u put up thoes 2 line ups and bet on NZ??? hahahha what about bench depth you clown!!!!

also penney wont be there hes like 34 as it is

That aus team would smash that nz team..

Can NZ still qualify for 2012 through any other qualification tournament?

Would be good to have Aus and NZ in the Olympics both have good teams and can beat many international teams.

Agreed Australia would win, Penney is a international star, but the rest of the team are no better than NBL aussies (except maybe Abercrombie) let alone the likes of Ingles, Newley, Mills, etc who are playing overseas.

I know it would never happen but would a combined Oceania team contend for an Olympic medal? Just adding Penney to the Boomers would be a massive upgrade imo.

Imagine

Mills/Dellavedova
Penney/Newley/Barlow
Ingles/Abercrombie
Andersen/Nielsen
Bogut/Maric/Jawai (or Baynes or Ogilvy)

would be awesome, sure only adding 2 kiwis and having everyone fully fit, but just a healthy Bogut and adding Penney is a massive upgrade imo.

I think the argument is if they all played say NBL, Andersen, Bogut, Nielsen, etc would all be significantly better than Pledger, Vukona, etc, meaning they are the better players.

Boomers 3-0.

Yes and no re Europe, as some of the Aussies eg Newley are playing in one of the better European leagues as imports, and he was one of the best NBL players at a young age when he left the NBL.

So for me he is clearly better than say a Vukona, as if Vukona was as good he would get similar import gigs in Europe similar to Newley.

I can see your point for say Andersen, etc who have European passports, but again Andersen has played NBA, Maric is getting NBA workouts this year, so the fact that they are able to play in Europe doesnt guarantee they are better but Andersen hasnt been a benchy he has been one of the better players of his team, and there is little doubt he would be MVP callibre like Anstey was if he returned to the NBL imo.

So yes just because they play somewhere in Europe doesnt make them better, thats true for someone like say Rhys Carter, but for me all the Boomer level guys ie the ones who are playing as imports and/or making significant contributions in the stronger leagues are clearly better than a NBL/Breakers starter, which bar Penney is what the best Tall blacks are.

Yea true, i guess even Mills wasnt a stand out MVP in his NBL stint, but was in the mix.

I agree most of them wouldnt be guaranteed superstars, but all would be in the top of their positions, with guys like Ingles, Newley, Jawai, Maric, Andersen being the top MVP candidates (out of locals anyway).

I would have loved to see Ingles and Newley play their careers in Australia, with their extra length and Athletism compared to most Aussies in their position would have enabled them to pretty dominant imo. Despite neither being very bulky,

Ingles could have a 'LeBron' style NBL season with his all round game if he really pushed himself i reckon,

Newley would be more a NBL version of 'Kobe' or 'Wade' as a dominant/athletic scorer, would have been exciting, but cant blame them for going overseas. I think he would have been fine with his scoring/shooting and offense in the NBL environment.

And yea Maric and Jawai would be unstoppable with their size and strength.

At worst i reckon guys like Kickert, Markovic etc would be of the Johnson level, which is still very good at NBL level and better than most NZ guys.

I'd say only Abercrombie, maybe Vukona and Pledger out of the NZ guys in the NBL would be of that level, so Australia definatly has the depth.

Is Vukona really turning down 700k (Newleys rumoured salary, Boti mentioned it a while ago) to stay with the Breakers? I doubt it, very loyal by him and lucky for the Breakers if he is, i have no doubt he could go to Europe, and is getting offers, even as a cheaper import in a pretty strong league but i doubt he would be getting some of those (500k+) offers and staying in the NBL.

Dont get me wrong he is a fantastic player, i would love him as a 36er, but for me he is not really any better than Wortho, and it would be hard to say he is better than Andersen, etc given what they have achieved in their careers, and behind Abercrombe and Penney he is their next best player.

Vukona wouldn't be getting any big money offers otherwise he would've left a long time ago. If the offers are comparable to his NBL salary then sure why not stay.

Jawai would destroy the NBL, remember how dominant he was in 07-08 as a rookie (all-star game MVP too) and the league was of a higher standard back then too.

If his jumpshot got back to what it was at that point he could dominate the NBL.

Agreed Paul,

Is Kickert more the Helliwell type? different style of player of course but a NBL 8th - 10th man level player who has made a solid career in Europe with a few Boomers opportunities. Given Brown and Goorj seem to rate him and continually have him in squads i assumed he is atleast as good as Schenscher/Johnson who havnt got as many opportunities with the Boomers, and not being a beast like Helliwell is.

"Vukona wouldn't be getting any big money offers otherwise he would've left a long time ago"

That's assuming decisions are based purely on money. Having a young family can alter priorities, as it did with Wortho after the 2010 worlds when he turned down a good offer in serbia.

Yes, other factors, but are these guys turning down 500k +? Not so sure, they may be turning down 300kish to play NBL for 150-200k, but would be more surpised if it was a 500k + offer, not impossible but more unlikely imo.

One thing i do wonder if we played the NBL from April to say October, would guys like Newley play NBL? they could earn say 150k in the NBL in their 'European offseason', whilst still making good money in Europe, the seasons wouldnt really clash would they? Would they still get good offers if they missed the start of the Euro season to finnish the NBL season?

True Paul, but also wrong to totally discount the club accomplishments of Andersen, playing Euroleague and other top Euro comps as a starter for years and his short stint in the NBA.

Vukona may step up a bit internationally, and probably doesnt have Andersen's Euro passport, but even if he did i dont think he would get the Euroleague and NBA gigs Andersen has had.

Vukona is more physical than Andersen, but Andersen has better skills.

Andersen is a bit softer than Vukona, but also plays a different role, Andersen is often more the big shooter to spread the floor for a beast in the middle like Bogut or Maric, where is Vukona is the hustle guy who just outworks everyone for every possesion he can.

So overall i personally take Andersen, but Vukona is fantastic and i am a fan, would love him in a 36ers singlet.

I guess alot of this comes down to which guy a coach/fan prefers, the role needed by the team and who fills it best, etc.

Agreed Paul, Vukona is fantastic, definatly a huge factor in the Breakers success. Every team would love him.

Another interesting one is Pero Cameron's form in the World Champs v NBL, doesnt seem to add up, but wasnt he all World? I know Larry Brown spoke very highly of him, but was never a dominant NBL player, bit like Vukona, but Vukona is better in the NBL imo.

Cameron i think offerd other intangibles such as IQ, leadership which is why he still did ok in the NBL, but was hardly a star.

But yea you do definatly have a point internatioanlly these guys certainly bridge the gap against guys like Andersen.

But would be hard to say they are better than a Andersen (also hard to say they are worse) at the same time.

With Bogut, Boomers 3-0

Without Bogut, Boomers 3-0

"I do worry about sport at an international level ... pitting one country against another does raise national pride to the level of nationalism, and the trouble with nationalism is that if people take it too seriously it turns into national socialism and then it's no longer about including various countries in a race, it’s about excluding various races from a country." Shaun Micallef, 'Mad as Hell', ABC1

Love the Micallef quote, his new show is good!

Abercrombie and Vukona were both very good for NZ at the WC's against some strong opposition so to say Vukona is a solid role player at NBL level only is pretty rubbish.

He'd be a great role player in europe just doesnt have a passport.

Vukona has played in 3 of the last 4 championships. The other year hsi team made the semi finl. Its no coincidence. Your kidding yourself if you think you can measure him by stats.