pro/rel in summer is hopeless. Trying to grade kids and win games is not a solution.

I would go one team per div in summer and have the top two teams play off against bottom 2 teams in each div above to decide winter. Eg Div 2 top 2 play div 1 bottom 2. for every division. Top 2 go up bottom 2 go down. that way teams would be graded correctly to talent level for summer. Watch the clubs grade players then as there is a massive incentive to do well.

The issue also is kids develop at different rates so there will be massive gains by kids new to the sport from summer to winter.

If you look at your club now could probably drop 2 or 3 from div 1 could be replaced with kids who have improved dramatically from div 2 or 3. It doesn't happen as coaches don't want to upset parents and players.

never never never

Looking at the above results I guess it depends on what the goals is for an elite comeptition.

In the past it seems that the philosophy is for every club to have a chance for div 1 and 2. But the idea that playres will move to make up numbers in weaker team seems to actually be counter productive, in that weaker teams seem to disappear altogether rather than gain players.

I would think that high level, even standard competition would be the goal. As such I would think that 8 team competitions with 21 rounds would work better. Giving teams and clubs an opportunity to aim for something each year.

1/ Have the bottom 2 teams from div 1 move down into div 2 after summer. Leaving an 8 team div 1 competition. Call it Championship grade.

2/ Have pro/rel in div 2 and below. This would mean the top 6 div 2/3 teams would play the bottom 2 div 1 teams which should make for a very strong competition. At the end of the 3 rounds of summer pro/rel. Top 2 in the second group plays the bottom 2 in the first group for the final spots in this grade. Call it Div 1.

3/ Have 8 team competition all the way through. This means that there will be a closer standard all the way down through the grades with less blow outs by the top teams in any grade against the bottom teams.

4/ Allow players to move up teams between seasons and grading phases like now.

Example 12 Boys.

Centrals and West would move down into div 2 which would be

West 1
Centrals 1
Sturt 2
Forestville 2
Centrals 2
Southern 2
Southern 3
Sturt 2

Then div 3 would be the next best 8 teams.

pro/rel should be in across the board.

look at centrals and woodville's results in u16 girls reserves.

those kids will be out of basketball in 12 months - after being thumped like that - clearly they need to be in div 3.

best 10 teams in div 1 next best in div 2 and next in div 3 etc.

players and clubs then get a sense of achievement through working their way up through grades.

not like this expectation therefore it must be mentality that exists nowadays.

the one club per team is dead in the water - look at u12s - got down to about 6 clubs - if forestville and sturt did not enter a second team - it would have been a very deja vu season.

Bring it on

If there is to be a pro/rel set up, then I would suggest that we move away from this North/South competetion which appears nobody likes and run a true pro/rel divisions where we play all teams in the competetion.

well - this all can change now - as the last draw will be out over the next few days.

some teams can get better or worse and often there is not much between div 3 and 4.

clubs need to get real and nominate their players in the right grades - yes some will step up - and the majority will fold if they get thumped week in week out - we need to keep players in the game and driving across town to keep a % of 20-30 over a season is not good for the confidence.

having been involved in clubs that have earnt their success coming from humble origins - you get a greater sense of achievement earning your stripes.

yes - there is not enough teams for the north / south arrangement

NT - TAS - ACT in nationals is an entirely different thing - once in a lifetime stuff for some players and families.

this is week in week out stuff - commonsense please.

Anon 729 please give your examples of pumped 12/14 teams that were successful by 18s and the coaches that turned these teams around

And I will include the kids that they recruited into these teams to make them improve.

PS Pro/rel wont stop that.

Some of the issues raised here particularly in the under 12's is due to lodgement/acceptance by both the clubs and bsa. I do know the top two sides in div 4 should have been in div 3 according to the clubs. They were put in div 4 due to the late entry by the clubs and the only available spots were in div 4. Both North and Lions top div 4 teams were supposedly to be in Div 3 according to the clubs representatives but if bsa put them in div 4 then thats where they play. In this instance promotion/relegation would work as it is clear those two teams are too strong for Div 4.

Start the winter season with a pre-season Div 1 and Div 2 Championship grading competition over 2-3 weeks. Then depending on the position split the 20-22 teams into 2 groups and start the winter season.

Everyone then has a chance of good competition every week. Teams in Div 1 and 2 would get a " reality check" about where they belong in the competition.

anon,

What if you dont get the right 20 - 22 teams in the first place? Or team 23 is better than team team 15?

While I for one am not against pro-rel across the board, giving clubs the chance to start in the top division and earn their spot, while having other teams div 2 and div 3 team do the same seems to make sence.

What we aare seeing is that the difference between the top teams in div 2 and the bottom teams is very large. And also, that the best teams in div 3 are significantly better than some div 2 teams.

The up shot is that this can postentially lead to kids leaving the sport for 1 reason or another which not only damages clubs, both stronger and weaker, but more importantly, damages the sport.

The sooner this is fixed, the better.

Good point "The Solution". We need a pre-winter season grading to place teams into appropriate Div 1,2 3 and beyond grades.

If as a club all your teams are in a lower grade, then ther is incentive to improve to avoid the embarassment. These kids are more likely to enjoy basketball if they don't get thumped every week.

Bring on Pro/Rel. The kids want it, the parents want it. What's the holdup ?

If we want to get serious about creating a strong comp in SA then we need the best players/teams playing each other week in week out and if that means the stronger/larger clubs have two teams in div one and 3 in div to then so be it...
Take the U12 girls for an example.
In Div. 1 they only have 8 teams as Centrals and Woodville don't have a team. In this 8 team comp the Eagles are top with a 461% and South are bottom with 11% whilst in Div.2 the Eagles are top with 517%!! Sturt are 2nd 441% and even Sturt 2 (third team) have a 243%...!! Surely one or two of those Div.2 teams are stronger than the bottom 4-5 teams in Div.1?? Surely this is a better option then hoping players in div 3 will leave a strong club to play div 1-2 at a weaker club as this clearly hasn't happened... Ultimately i think Div. 1 should be for the best teams and the standard Div.3 style summer season pro/rel would determine who those best teams are...