Trigger and Gleeson's relationship looks strained. Maybe because Trigger is such a defensive liability..

I heard that they are starting the bigs who got the most rebounds from the game before, or something like that.

I guess Gleeson is trying to encourage more effort from some of his players and seeing who wants to be there for next year.

Think you might find they are letting a few guys show the league they can play so they can get conrtacts else where next year.

Gleeson should be doing all he can to look after Trigger as they're aren't many guys of his offensive calibre in the league, that said get Bruston playing during the year and you cover his lack of D (Although if you look at the numbers this year his D has been pretty solid)

But how could Lucas Walker be top-scorer against the Crocs? Is he doing a Blake Griffin or something?

The Tigers are clearly looking at their roster for next year and within that process they are giving everyone an oportunity to show their talents before the end of the the draw. Trevor Gleeson is playing people based upon their hustle stats such as most rebounds from last game etc.

Dorsey looks out of sorts and I would say that they would be looking to replace him, with a scoring big. This would also ease the loss if the Trigger situation went badly. I read a comment about Trigger's scoring ability above and I have noticed that almost everytime he catches the ball, a shot is going up. He doesn't seem to work through the offense well and get the others involved. That is where the dysfunction seems to be. On top of that, Burston is not the hardest of players and they are not getting much from him. Liam Rush has struggled as a result of the black hole in the middle and I think he would be a great role player if things were ran through.

Cut: Dillon, Dorsey, For sure.

I can confirm that Gleeson is starting the two players with the highest rebounds from the previous game (when asked after the Sydney game about Trigger coming off the bench)

As for cutting, well, we know that contracts aren't worth crap in the NBL, but Dillon was signed for three years, so was Dorsey and Ubaka (case in point) from memory? And I think Greer has another year left as well...

Not sure about Walker, but Burston and Lewis definitely are on one year deals for 11/12.

It certainly looks like the team isn't gelling that well, and Gleeson doesn't really look like the friendliest sort of guys to get along with... lol

All Tigers players are considered off-contract. From the players' side, I take that to mean that they can leave if they don't want to be there. From the club's side, I'm not sure if they would be obliged to keep a contracted player that they didn't want, or if they will pay out anyone who leaves.

Reports are Gleeson has "lost" a few of the players (Trig, Greer, Bruston, Walker, Dorsey, Rush) with mystifying starting combos and further to that he rants at trainings/after games.

As we see in all professional sports now SCREAMING at the playing group with thee old heart, desire, club, togetherness thing doesn't get it done with the majority of players as this is modern sports not 1990’s semi pro sport....these guys don’t need motivation they need direction! (If they require a coach to motivate them they soon be out of a contract, so that should be motivation enough!)

In respect of Trigger the guy shoots it at a get clip (53.9%) and is very effective so the "Black Hole" theory is a little skewed (not like he is taking 20 shots a night!) for a guy leading the league in scoring.

Isaac - How can players be considered "of contract"? Is this just rumours and it's the old "if you want to go we won't stop you"? sorta thing or is there anything to back it up?

Otherwise, if a player couldn't get a gig somewhere else, I'd say they would be well within their rights to stick around or just get paid out...

A tough way to clear house, really... Bit like the Spirit of Shame-Us is still around... lol

That was the word a while back and may have been while Seamus was still there. "We won't stop you" - that's my guess. With a new team coming in nearby, doubt anyone would have to stay there if they didn't feel wanted. Lang aside, I'd say the rest of the roster can stay in the league so they wouldn't be out of a job, just released if they wanted. Lewis could be borderline NBL some games, but

Someone like Dorsey, who would've been signed for above his current asking price, would probably be kept or have to be paid out. Surely he wouldn't throw away the money.

I'll be putting up a rumor page on andthefoul.net during the off season. But in the meantime i've had a number of conversations with players, agents & front office people. Expect a huge change with the Tigers roster, contracted or not. It doesn't matter.

Dillon and Rush signed for three years, Dorsey for two.

Gleeson had a reputation as a prick coming in, and he hasn't done anything to dispell this.

It always seemed like a poor choice to me. I remember Seamus justifying in the pre-season by saying 'who wouldn't want the current coach of the year?' What a load of rubbish. Glad he's gone.

Best thing the Tigers could do is keep the players, get rid of the Gleeson/Short combo, and give this team back to D-Mac and Giddey.

Ditto. They should of kept Dmac. He did a solid job last year at the end of the season. They went 4-6? I thought they played well.

D-Mac at least had the players...which is always half the battle!

Even if they didn't think D-mac had the experience to be head coach just go and get 2 good assistant coaches to ensure the coaching panel is a strong unit.

The biggest winner is Colletto who looks like he might get a title out of the Patty Mills sacking.

Over this season, Tragardh has shot 200-371 from the field (53.9%). Up from his career average of 51.8%. He's taking 3.6 shots per game more than last season and hitting 2.7 per game more.

He's taken 21.3% of the Tigers' field shots this season, hit 26.0% of their made shots and 22% of their points.

He averages 1.5 assists per game, 5th behind Allen, Mills, Ubaka and Dillon.

These don't look really look like the stats of a black hole, to me.

If he's shooting at almost 54%, he should be a black hole. He's taking high percentage shots.

Below him in APG are: Worthington, Wilkinson, Knight, Wagstaff, Grant, A Warren, Campbell, Corletto, Forman, Dorsey, Rush, Simpson, Rychart, etc. Nevill, Abercrombie, Khazzouh, etc are all about the same as him.

I'd be more concerned about guys like Dorsey, Warren, Rush, Campbell, Abercrombie. Someone like Dorsey is shooting a clearly inferior FG% and averaging more TOs than assists.

I hope the team isn't blown up. I think with the core that is there the Tigers can contend. Every time that I have seen them play some full court defence, they have looked real good, but it just doesn't happen enough.

If we could get somebody like Larry Davidson to take Tim Langs roster spot, a replacement for Myron Allen at the PG and another guard that can shoot for one of either, Lewis or Walker I think we can be a force.

But Gleeson either needs to change his coaching style to a style that suits his cattle or he has to go.

In my opinion.. The front office should just blow up the team. Starting with the coach.

The Seamus cloud still hangs over this team. Time for a new start. New direction.

I heard he started blaming the players for loses. that's never good. at least Westover never did that, he always supported the players.

he needs to go IMO. not sure if DMAC would return, but wouldn't it be great!

Bring back DMac, get some better balance on the roster, and watch those Tigers roar next year!

(They'll need to, or the fans will go over to the other Melbourne team.)

Hey what's wrong with blaming the players? Who else is on the court? Seriously tho, I like Wright's attitude on GC. Prior to their very good run, against the teams under them on the ladder, "this team is not playing like a refection of me" (or very close to it.
That really cracked me up. Was the 2007 Bullets' team a refection of him?

Natwhereyouat: New direction? That's where the Tigers are heading. And FYI, the coach is part of the team, not part of the front office. I can't believe how much blame is posed on the coaching staff. Isn't it clear in looking at Gleeson/Short history of making the playoffs every year in Townsville, it's clearly not an issue of inexperience from the coaching staff?

And to not blame the players? Who the hell else would you blame? What a stupid comment. I am astonished at comments against the coaching staff. We're higher on the ladder than we were last year and this year's team has been through hell. I can't wait to laugh in the face of all you hegative people next year when they make the playoffs. Obviously the fans like what they're starting to see...the Tigers have set a record for attendance this year.

And fair enough to want DMac involved in the club but being a good player doesn't translate into being a good coach. It's 2 different professions. And Tiger Watcher, if DMac had the players, why did the Tigers do so poorly last year? And Vart, since when does Gleeson have a reputation for being a prick? Some players might like him because he demands them to work hard, be professional, train like professional athletes, etc. The lazy players probably do think he's a prick because you can't play for him, be lazy and last. Have you ever even met the guy? He's one of the nicest guys around and a damn good coach.

The amount of inexperienced, silly comments on here astound me.

Anon 353140

You may be right in what you say, since you're obviously closer than I am.
Yeah, they've been through some pretty rough stuff cos of Shame-us, but they're supposed to be professional and perform despite those things.

I go by what I see at the games:
1. a bunch of players who work hard, and yet have been accused of being lazy or selfish
2. some guys who started the season showing talent and energy who are now just going through the motions and play like s..t
3. a coach who I don't think gives them enough guidance at the personal level at games
4. players who can't nail uncontested long shots
5. a half-court offence that doesn't seem to suit the players, but who have been brilliant on the few occasions I've really seen them running the break as their main option
6. an offence that is really pretty stagnant, making it easier to defend and so reduces our ability to score

Maybe the problem is that the players have given up cos they're out of the finals, maybe cos they've lost faith in the coach, maybe cos they're scared for their spots, whatever. I just don't see that the current players and coaches are talking the same language, and performing unselfishly as a cohesive unit.

As for being higher on the ladder, and bigger crowds - it would have been hard not to improve.

As for why I'd go for DMac - the players seemed to respond to him well, and he seemed to get them more focussed on moving the ball, moving off the ball better, and playing better 'd' than Westover did. If there was stuff that I didn't see that went badly, then tell me.

Hi Hoopie

I don't claim to be an expert by any means but I'm just astounded at the negativity on this forum about some teams. I don't think most people fully understand the implications something like the Ubaka situation can have on a team. It completely ruined any sort of chemistry, trust, teamwork, etc. that they had going. From memory, their big losing streak of 6 was just after this happened. If it weren't for this incident, I believe they would easily be in the top 4. I don't recall hearing anyone call any of the players lazy but I think it's been obvious at times that there has been selfish play...and fair enough too with what happened to Ubaka. I disagree that the players are just going through the motions. I think the last couple of games (Sydney and Townsville), although the games were sloppy, we showed real determination and a will to win. From what I can see, the Tigers really need an experienced, positive player to bring them together on the court in cluth times...the coach can only do so much and he is. I have nothing against DMac but I just know that the organisation needs alot of work from top to bottom and he doesn't have the experience to put it together. Give the Tigers a couple years with these new owners, new coaching staff and I think they'll be right.

well if Westover was let go going through as much if not MORE than Gleeson had to put up with, I think it's only fair to be just as hard on Gleeson. things to keep in mind from last season:

1. Westover didn't get to pick his team (contrary from what's reported)

2. there's been issues with Westover and Seamus since preseason

3. DMAC took over and produced respectable results without 2 of the original starters, no replacements were made after the axing

4. Gleeson at least picked: Rush, Dillon, Ubaka and Dorsey. that's 4 more picks than Westover had

not been overly negative, but just a fact that the coach walked in claiming last year's group underachieved (which they did) and believed with few changes here and there they'll be right in the championship hunt. from memory he even said to turn this into the best program in the country.

does this sound similar? Marty Clark? so it's whether Tigers wait another year like 6ers did or put the ax now.

in addition, I don't think the crowd has the same reception about Gleeson in comparison to previous Tigers coaches.

also, why is there a problem with the coach blaming the players?

imagine a coach go in telling the admin "we don't have the right talents to win" then telling players "some of you are not coming back"...

and he has problem with players playing selfishly? you go figure why?

finally, remember with this same core Carins did play GF with Melbourne having arguably better pieces than Cairns last year. guys like Dillon and Dorsey has shot below what they did last season too. so it's definitely a capable team IMO.

so why not blame the coach? he's the general that directs the war, players followed his orders and didn't work out.

Well said MW, I agree on all points.

NW Regarding your points:

1. Westover didn't get to pick his team (contrary from what's reported)
How long was he there either in an assistant coaching role or head coaching role and he never got to pick his team? I don't understand your point there. Why wasn't he choosing his team?

2. there's been issues with Westover and Seamus since preseason. Who cares?

3. DMAC took over and produced respectable results without 2 of the original starters, no replacements were made after the axing.
You could make the same argument about this year. Burston has been injured for majority of season and No replacement was made after Mills left either.

4. Gleeson at least picked: Rush, Dillon, Ubaka and Dorsey. that's 4 more picks than Westover had
Again, why wasn't Westover picking his own teams after being there that long? To your point, if Ubaka was still here, our results would probably be different.

Regarding the first half of your second set of points, it doesn't even make sense. And as far as blaming the coach..that's your business. That's what uneducated fans normally do.

Westover never got to pick his own teams because Seamus gave him no authority whatsoever, but then tried to blame everything on Al when it went pear-shaped. Seamus ALWAYS picked the players in his 10 year reign at the Tigers.

Vart.
That's a shame. I guess that's an issue for Westover. Perhaps that's the arrangment they had. If Westover had an issue like that, he should've done a better job with the fine print in his contract to read that he had final say on players. Time to let sleeping dogs lie and get on with it. I'm sure if they'd had a guy like Anstey on the roster like Westover did the Tigers would be in the playoff hunt. Westover isn't there anymore. Gleeson is, it's his first year so give him a chance to do with Melbourne what he did with Townsville.

What's happening with the Tigers??

1) They lost their leader = Pat Mills

2) They lost their motivater = Pat Mills

3) They lots the person who was the GLUE to the
team = Pat Mills

4) Ubaka & Dorsey didnt stepup to lead the team to
keeping playing good team basketball as imports
should do in these circumstances.

5) Trevor Gleeson without Pat Mills had to do more
than pretend he was coaching by looking at his
notes of NOTHING!

6) Trevor Gleeson is a poor communicater which is a
vital component to coaching especially when you
have a good young talented player such as Lucas &
Lewis and you loose the #1 player in the NBL!

7) Sheamus will have to make more TOUGH decisions
after the season if he want to avoid not making
the NBL finls in the 2012/13 season.

True

True...clearly you're an idiot. Seamus sold his shares and isn't even involved with the team anymore. This is a forum for fans not pretenders.

LOL True.