This is not news. His former coach has publicly said the same thing some time ago (although said former coach is the whiny, puerile Jeff van Gundy).

There are plenty of guys like McGrady who don't truly love the game, and they only get so far.

Apologies, didn't read article and SVG reference therein.

I've seen it with many kids even on the Australian level, guys with height and skills: they love the game but it's only a phase like any other phase a person goes through. They play all the computer games and have all the basketball gear, they seem to love everything about the game except playing it.

The ones you don't see working on their game alone in a stadium during the offseason. The ones who don't care if they lose as long as they can go to the box score after the game and see "30 pts" next to their name. They only get so far.

Guys like vince carter and tmac, I get the feeling they would be just as happy being a male model or a rapper as a ball player. It's just something they do because they were tall and skilled and it made them "the man". The game itself was always secondary.

And that's why Ray Allen is still a useful piece on a successful team, while carter makes every team he goes to worse, because he has always solemnly sweared (and I'm paraphrasing here) that nothing he has was god given, every skill he has he worked his butt off to attain and fine tune, every god damn day.

Jeffy Van... purile? give yourself an uppercut Mick what are you talkin about? Jeff Van Gundy is shrewd and entertaining.

T-Mac is one of the most tranquil players I am familar with in the NBA. If he had been born a few generations earlier and played in the 70s he would have been an afro wearing ABA allstar or a NBA hall of famer for sure. Having said that, I would be happy with my lot if I was McGrady 2000s version, I would pick on Grant Hill's career before i took a sucker punch to T-mac for not fufilling his potential, or for that matter Bryant 'Big County' Reeves if i really wanted to demonstrate my point.

AndyOG, Reeves so unimpressive you've demoted him from a Big Country to only a Big County? Nice joke, intentional or not!

I would have thought Big Continent the way he eats!

Phil Jackson said in "The Last Season" that he wanted to trade Kobe or he wouldn't coach the next year (this was in 2004). Him and GM Mitch Kupchak came up with T-Mac as a potential replacement, but he said "Everytime someone tells him to go back on defense, his back hurts."

Jeff Van Gundy is a self-serving wind bag whose voice gives me a tension headache.

Mick you don't need apoligise, your correct in your first post that Van Gundy stated in march last year that Mcgrady did'nt work hard. So hence this is "old news" but I had never had heard about these comments until reading the article today.

Mcgrady has confirmed he didn't work hard and has also said alot of his talent was just natural talent. I am disappointed to see where mcgrady is now.

I'm not convinced though that his injuries would have not have happened if he had a better work ethic. You can make a case for Derrick Coleman who was out of shape alot during his career which resulted in injuries. Mcgrady seemed to be in good shape when he's injuries started to occur and even though I have no background in medical diagnosis, I'm still not convinced they occurred from a poor work ethic.

AndyOG....you assclown !

Pick on Grant Hills career before TMac's ?? Baaahahaha

Assclown?

Elite, I stand by my above remarks. Grant Hill is a bigger talent than McGrady, but also a more OBVIOUS example of a tremendously talented NBA player who hasn't really fulfilled his TRUE POTENTIAL in the league, all things considered. You would think Grant Hill (as good a PRO as he has been statistically) should have been good for championship ring as a starter, or at least an NBA finals appearance (maybe should have stayed in Detroit)... he didn't even have the work ethic to become a decent 3-point NBA shooter, which would have added a further dimension to his game and helped any team he was on.

Hill is not a better talent then mcgrady no way. During Mcgrady's prime they were talking about him being a hall of famer they were not saying that about Hill. Hill injuries robbed him of his best years so I think Hill and Mcgrady should be able to be put in the same bracket in that sense. When Hill signed with Orlando he made the comment that there was 90% chance Tim Duncan would sign with Orlando. I think he honestly thought Duncan would sign with orlando when Hill signed but he didn't.

No one anticipated what would happen in Detroit after Hill left. No one knew how good Ben Wallace would be after he was received in the Grant Hill trade and joe dumars made some exceptional deals after Hill left. Trading for Rip Hamilton, signing Chauncey Billups, drafting Tayshaun Prince. Grant Hills teams in Detroit were constant losers in the frist round and Hill wanted to leave for a contender. Very easy to say in hindsight that Hill should of stayed in Detriot but making a ignorant comment like that shows you don't understand the situation Grant Hill was dealing with in Detroit when he made the decision to sign with Orlando.

Davey, baby...back to back NCAA championships with Duke, an NBA ROY in 95 and an Olympic gold medal in 96 showed that Grant Hill was an excitement machine with more potential than Trent Hentschel to become a NBA hall of famer during the earlier stages of his long NBA career. A thing called loyalty would have served Grant well and kept him at the same team (see: Kobe, Jordan) for a good whack of his career, if not all of it. Also, the Pistons are in the rare and extraordinary group of NBA franchises to have actually won multiple NBA Championship. Hardly ignorant. Tmac from High School to the pros has no team accolades to speak of, maybe a High School something that nobody cares about.

Yeah Kobe showed Loyalty he demanded to be traded at one point because the Lakers were not a contender. (cough, cough)

Also your comment that the pistons have won championships before so Hill should have stayed with them is laughable.The pistons were only a shell of what they were when they won the NBA championchip in 89 and 90 to Grant hills last season with the pistons. Different players, different coach, different management.

The celtics were terrible and mediocre for a good 10-15 years after Larry bird retired saying that these franchises have won before so they are going to win it again really is a pretty ignorant comment.

Also Hill accolades of championships in College with Duke don't count for squat in professional leagues. Christian Latener won at Duke while Vin Baker went to Harvard which was not known for it's basketball program. If I had choice in hindsight of taking latener or Baker I know which won I would choose. Determining a players ability by there accolades in college really is worthless argument. Magic Johnson Michigan Spartans beat Larry Bird's Indiana State Sickmores in the 1979 NCCA final. But you only have to do a little research to find out that Magic had the better supporting cast and the result is not a determination on who is the better player.

If I had choice in hindsight of taking latener or Baker I know which won I would choose.
Which one? I am interested.

Vin Baker

I think Vin Baker went to Hartford.
Also to say that Grant Hill was not as talented as T Mac is false IMO. He was talked about as the new talent to lead the NBA forward before he went to Orlando. Detroit (the city) was gutted when he left, similar to what happened with Lebron (but no where near as bad as he did it with a lot more class).
Having said that, going forward everyone thought Detroit would suck from then on. They had lost Allan Houston the year before to NY, so that with the Hill loss (2 All star talents) everyone was sure they were done for the nxt 5 years. Joe Dumars rescued that franchise from the abyss.

Grant Hill.... And Penny for that matter were superior to TMac at the top of their games.

Both Hill and Penny would've been Hall of Famers if not struck down by major injury rather than questionable work ethic. I cant believe anybody would query that ?

Any reason why Baker?

I personally would have Laettner. He could spread the floor a lot more, averaged about the same in scoring, slightly less in boards but he could rebound well when it was needed( and he played alongside Mutombo and Shaq for a chunk of his career who ate boards). A much better passer, and a winner in most forms of the game.

I always saw Baker as a lazy ball hog, who padded his stats, and never really got in and did the dirty work.
Then he got fat and was useless. In my opinion.

Baker was a four time all star laettner was only one. I think Laettner was at best a supporting player he showed at the Timberwolves that he was not a franchise player. Hawks were already good when laettner arrived, same for Detroit and Miami. Baker was a great post up player probably a little more versatile then laettner too with his ability to handle the ball and go coast to coast. I accept though laetner could hit the outside jumper further out then baker.

The Lockout really hurt Shaun Kemp and Vin Baker careers. After the weight explosion for Baker he eventually got back to his playing weight but with his confidence shattered and his personal problems with drinking led to his downfall. Still apart from that I thought Baker pretty good. Don't forget Laettner had his faults as well he was a cancer in the lockyer room.

A bit trivia on Laettner he was offered an extension by the hawks with a 6 year deal well over 60 million dollars but turned it down to test free agency. In the summer playing a pick up game he tore his ACL missed most of the what would be his last season with the Hawks by then Alan Henderson was starting and was looked to as the Hawks future power forward and Laettner dreams of a big contract went up in smoke.

Damn, that is nasty trivia. Harsh luck there.
Laettner was a jackass, agreed. Cannot agree regarding the Timberwolves, as that was his first few years in the league and he was averaging 17, 7 and 3 at a quick look, hardly shit averages really.

Regards to Baker, he was great early in his career, but 7 of last 8 seasons were craptastic at best.

He was the worst Jordan Brand sponsored player ever.

And I am not even going to get into Shawn Kemp jokes either!

Good discussion though David, cheers.