Yes another loss at home,Warren(sixers)couldnt score 3s in the last few mins,other Warren was a match winner for Cairns,like someone said he will be the x-factor,and he was tonight 24points.Next week NZ and the Cairns home again ,if we lose next 2 no hope of a shot at 4th spot.Clarke needs to go and get a coach who knows how to do rotations.If we finish 2nd bottom with less wins then SOS Group must look at new coach .

The officiating was mind blowing/puzzling at times. Seems Cairns forwards can push and shove, and get the foul yet down our end, cairns get to flop and its called a charge.

Good crowd though. Perhaps most games should have the lightning starting at 5.30pm to get good numbers.

Defensively, we donthave the faintest idea whats going on. We let them right into the basket and you reckon they let us? Not on your life.

If the coach cant coach, then perhaps its high time to look for another job.

btw, what happened after the game? Never seen two clubs mingle like that

Weak from SOS group to still be honouring Clarke's contract. Why in the first place did they offer a newbie coach a 3 year deal, you never no what to expect, and he has been shocking. The club as a whole has no backbone anymore and it reflects in how the team lacks to produce multiple wins. Sad depressing days as a 36er fan.

Holmes is gonna bother you a bit . when you see him tonite , you'll feel more depressed.

helliwell had an amazing box score. 0 pts, 3 fouls & 2 turnovers in 9 mins!

Cant be bothered Clarke bashing - 2 head strong to change his ways.

Great win 4 Taipans & big game Warren.

The officiating was not strange it was flat out incompetent at best or downright dishonest at worst. With two minutes to go in both the first and second quarters the Sixers were up by 6 only to be called for phantom fouls and in the last we were looking to start a run with 1 minute 32 to go and Diamon was called for a charge by Ray "the Sixers will never win while I'm in charge" Hunt from the halfway line where he was side on to the play. I ask again are referees allowed to bet on the reults of games.

The officiating was a mess, so many guys jumping into defenders and the officials generally wouldn't call it unless it was overly ridiculous.

I reckon things would improve drastically if we moved Creek to SF and bought Weigh off the bench and made sure DJ and DS were taking 40-50% of the shots. The crazy thing is that tonight DS took 11 shots, but had 7 offensive boards, meaning he likely took only 4 shots for his 16pts (as most of his offensive boards are putbacks).

DJ and DS- 11/24
The rest- 11/42

Mental.

There's plenty more thoughts and number crunching on my blog below

http://36reasons.blogspot.com/2012/01/sixers-lose.html

What I would like to see is an instant techfoul for flopping. The refs arent being hard enough on it..or just dont know what the hell it is. The worst thing is they made some very good (say out of charector) calls as well. Allowing Helliwell to stand his ground and getting a no call. But thats nullified by the amount of moving screens they called tonight as charging.
Read the rule book before each game maybe?

Pathetic umpiring tonight. Next time Cairns are in town I am calling Dean Lukin. The sight of Dodwell flapping around on the deck reminded me of a tuna. Dean will be able to "gaff 'em and pack 'em"

There was an altercation after the game involved Jamar Wilson and Mark Radford. Both had to be physically separated or else there would have been fisticuffs.

Unsure what sparked it.

I'm sure Helliwell is a great guy, but for mine I'd be happy if he never stepped on court for us again, far too slow these days to cut it in the NBL. I had a feeling in the 3rd quarter is was going to end badly for us, hard to put a finger on it as we'd been leading the whole game at that stage but we just looked stagnant, no one was really firing and it felt like so many other games we've let go in recent years from winnable positions.

It's depressing being a sixers fan at the moment.

Ass coach Radford and Wilson had words during the game also. Ref told Mark Radford to pull his head in.

Maybe Sixers should sell some of their homes games and play the rest of their homes games in Perth. 2-0 there this season. As a cats fan, I cannot comprehend that weve lost twice to the sixers on our home gym and the sixers looked like a championship outfit in both games in Perth. Perth didnt play that badly,the sixers were simply outstanding.

Yeh Camel I saw the game. Jacob Holmes played outstanding for Townsville tonight.
13 Points, 16 Rebounds, and a lazy 7 assists. I don't think it's really entirely Adelaide's fault though. Seems he was just stuck in a rut in Adelaide and cruising. Everybody know he got talent we seen it in ABA games but he didn't transfer it to the next level for whatever reason. Suddenly he gets dropped from Adelaide and realizes his basketball career may be over. Townsville reach out and give him a lifeline and he realizes that he got to pull his head out and start performing.

I was quite optimistic tonight , and I was felling almost confident when we were 7 points up with 5 minutes to go in the third, the five on court seemed to have a rhythm - and then our only two quality bigs, johnson and Simpson get brought to the bench in exchange for Helliwell and ??? - while the taipans had loughton and croswhite still on.

and that seemed to be that. After a few minutes Johnson was put back in , but the horse had bolted by then.

It seems to me the team is playing no worse, or better, than it was at any time last year, or even this season. Its as if, no matter what talent is avaiable, and no matter who gets hot or cold, we will drag thre other team down to well below their best, but will make sure that we remain just that little bit below them as well. the archetypical Scrappy losers - woolongong used to be like this before the finally got a good coach in geordie.



I wonder if the other teams have began to think - hey , with 15 minutes to go, as long as were are with 10 pioint we will be OK, as there will be some stutter by the Adelaide team's player rotations that will just give us a run at them.

and is it just ne , but does anyone see any resemblance between Weigh and Scott McGregor ?

I don't think that anything gets run for warren at all. Its not easy being a point guard for a team where the opposition knows your plays even better than your own team, and where the plays you do run rarely have more than one player moving at any one time. You can't direct the defence's attention elsewhere, when any other player you look at is just standing still.

Horrible, boring game to watch..

Could somebody elaborate on the Radford & Jamar Wilson situation. Are we talking about 2 Taipans?

Clarke & the red haired assistant coach are an embarrassment to the Adelaide 36ers club.

How can a professional club tolerate the "lack of respect" they continually show the referees ?

Constantly yelling at them, throwing their hands in the air, clearly showing their frustration. Unbelievable !

I will be writing to the CEO about this aspect.

Oh & can we get someone to wipe the floors quickly & efficiently.

Not having having a go at the kids, but .... those at the game last night would have thought it to be laughable.

@Hydra while you are at it do you want to write to very CEO of every club. Woolpert got ejected last night, can you ask the Crocs to fire him. Seriously some people need to HTFU. working the refs can be part of the game. A lot of other coaches would have been ejected last night for going off at the refs for the shockingly bad standard they set.

The floor wipers need to be provided with training, which I've said before. This season we seem to have different floor wipers each game and all are simply just thrown in and it looks bad like last night.

Someone needs to be accountable and provide some training.

Whatever happened to the young dark boy from last season aka Larnard Copeland Jr lookalike. He was awesome. He would step up, wipe the spot, it'll be clean, he'd sit and game back on. He was consistent too and earnt my respect.

Could somebody elaborate on the Radford & Jamar Wilson situation. Are we talking about 2 Taipans?

I wouldnt ask the question if it was abundantly clear anon u dickhead!!

I have already emailed Leeeanne,and received a reply, expressing my discussed at the refereeing. The lack of consistency and poor decisions made by the refereeing panel HAVE been conveyed to the NBL

Can't always be the refs Bake. Every side has to endure bad calls. For some reason sides normally cop it on the road so maybe the refs wont give Adel 50/50 calls at home cause your coaching staff rub them the wrong way!!

Refs average but didn't decide the game, nor so much the coaching. No giant errors like against the Blaze in Adelaide. D was a bit better. Rebounded well to survive 33% shooting but that's a pretty giant hole to be in. Only two Sixers had assists, I think. Helliwell's mistakes were a bit much - seems to come whenever he receives or holds the ball low and tries to force between a double team. Not good enough.

Warren did enough damage to get Cairns through. If he misses just one of those, the last minute or two would've been completely different. Thought we could've tried Bartlett on him more - thought his D was quite smart and his contribution was better than 3 TO and no assists suggests.

But there goes another chance at stringing wins together and one we needed to get at home. Couldve done with a couple of those Chris Warren threes going down.

Orbit, how does Radford and Wilson make you think two Taipans were involved? There is only one Radford between those two teams and one Wilson, right? Someone outlined it pretty well further up.

Also, almost every coach roughs up refs. Lemanis has had warnings, Gleeson's been ejected, now Woolpert, etc.

Yes Sixers have improved slightly but still know 2 wins in a row and now after last night no confidence we are going to do in near future.
Refs were bad any many ways and though might still found way to lose some of those really bad calls in last stopped us from having a chance.
Refs also to blame for floor wiping fiasco as rewarded Cairns early in game for flopping and thats what we got all night watching players flop and kids mopping floors.
Now for team firstly must acknowledge Creek who have baked as over rated with no jump shot which only got 1 or 2 in shoot around but played well with a great 3 pointer and if didnt get into foul trouble may have got greater results.
Weigh injury or not is so badly over rated especially by coach and why they think he can guard PF and Centres is baffling.
Warren is a very average import as their imports proved and not sure of system or why he breaks away helter skelter then stops rather than try to penetrate to open up holes.
Helliwell is hell to watch play for Sixers but feel for him as those calls on him last night in the main were a joke.
Well have held of on a lot of criticsm of coach as he obviously has great knowledge of game but simply is the guy cannot coach at this level.
Major examples
In the third 6 points up and if not missed some easy open shots would have been greater.
So what does coach do takes of DJ and Simpson and brings on Helliwell and a guard with their bigs still on court.
Where did our lead go down the drain in a great flush.
But in last still hanging in there and Cairns struggling to score consistently so another Marty brainstorm we will put our worst defender on NG and put him on their best shooter well bang bang bang we are suddenly 9 down which could not make up.
Yes have to let him finish season out but no way next year as I know in my group and around us many long term season ticket holders wont be back unless real changes made.
Finally where a lot of regular posters post match and I assume Isaac overseas again

OOPS Isaac just posted must be going OS next week

@ Muzz Buzz

Its about respect. Just because other clubs do it doesn't mean it's okay.

Sets a poor example ~ I have a 10 year old son with me at games, he asks why ?

@Bake

what is CEO's email address ?

@bretts the man Darren subbed in to play D on Warren after he hit the two 3's.

Can we get Clark ejected from the games..maybe Radfod as well. Oh how we could win then!!!!

My mistake i thought radford was cairns assistant - got the rangas mixed up. What i am asking is what happened between a Adel asst & Cairns import? I know something happened but what?

Nice plagiarism anon. Obviously a frustrated 36er supporter!! Not my fault you're shit...

Hydra90 got the address off Sixers site [email protected]

Orbit I know that in general it's not always the refs and that I look at any team I support throgh rose colored glasses. But last night it was so obvious that the refs, particularly Fillmer and Hunt, made soft and particularly strange calls against the Sixers in the last 2 minutes in each of the 1st, 2nd and last quarters. There was no need in the third, Marty took care of that.

Has anyone else noted that when Fillmer makes a clanger his chin drops down toward his chest and he tends to stare into the ground.

Isaac I genuinely think that the refs had a significant influence on the final score. In both the first and second quarters we had six point leads and looking to build on that only to be pegged back and in the last we were looking like we were getting back into the game when Ray Hunt called the charge, he was side on at the centre of the court while the other ref was head on with a better view of the contact, on Diamon which stopped our run.

The refs were pathetic, but that is not why we lost the game. I was tempted to wave a $50 note under Ray Hunt's nose to see if we could get some good calls, but realised that it wasn't worth it.

The Taipans were pretty bad last night and I was watching their plays wondering "how the F are these guys 7 and 7 coming into the game". Wilson just looks unfit and his footwork in defense was questionable. A couple of times our Warren had him stumbling, but we didn't capitalise on that.

A couple of times I looked at the matchups and thought "the Sixers have the benefit in each matchup". Then, after I put my cornetto wrapper in the bin, I would look up and see the subs and think "The Taipans now have the upper hand"

The Taipans offences were simple in design and basically every possession they had they ran the clock down to single digits to make the most of their possession. Their shots were average to say the least and jacked up some average shots on some possessions just to beat the 24 seconds. But, the key point was they got the shot up.

The Sixers offences appeared to be more complicated than the computer programming of the space shuttle's toilet. Poor shooting was our downfall. The team put up more shots than them and lost.

Put simply, the Taipan were bad, but the Sixers were worse. This round, the Taipans were the Sixers and the Sixers were Sydney.

Bake, I don't mind mentioning the refs, but it seems like sour grapes to put too much on them in a game like that. They didn't shoot 33% or whatever it was. I think there was one play where a Sixer was a fair way out of bounds retrieving a ball and it wasn't called. Didn't love some of those charges, but they might've been 50-50 calls. We didn't play that well that we deserved to be 10+ up. One fluffed Helliwell play or a Warren three changed (either Warren) and it's going either way at the end. That stuff is at the mercy of the players themselves.

To whoever commented on Weigh guarding PFs, Loughton didn't do a whole lot and I assume he is their PF more often than not. Crosswhite was their big who did the damage and he wasn't defended appallingly, just is quite skilled with those little hooks.

Ng came on after Warren hit those first two. The one on him was when he'd left Warren to help in the key - took the risk and on this occasion got burnt. I didn't think it was a bad sub - my guess is that it was an opportunity to play an offensive player who just needed to deny Warren rather than defend him once he had the ball; he seems to do most of his damage from set shots.

Cairns were down Dusty. We were down a 10-point, big-money captain who the club aren't replacing. Was always going to be a tough game.

A mood approaching one win , one loss , one win , one loss . A lotta other teams I seen do this for a while.
Ain't it just like Crows n Power did at stages.
Helliwell n Herbert's best games last game and now their worst. Warren one good one and one bad one.
Well , that's the way it goes for a while.

Simpsons play was a charge in my opinion, refs did ok overall, they are not gonna be perfect and didn't decide the game.

If helliwell had a haircut and got rid of the mo then the refs may respect him..

We just don't know how to win. That's the obvious part. We tighten up and then chase our tails.

So frustrating to see simpon work down low and get a great seal with warren or grabby on his back only to see the guards waste 10 seconds fluffing with the ball and then crosswhite or loughton switch over. I play social ball and I could have got Simpson the ball easily enough. If you can't create the play you should be a point guard.

Warren is our main issue in my opinion. Too small, cant create or defend and not a pass first guard. One fast break he went against Laughton I think when as a pg he had Simpson trailing all you do is go at their body and pass to Simpson for the dunk. Court awareness. Simple. Basketball isn't really that hard..

Isaac and all those who do not think the refs are an influence in the game, consider this. Most of our losing games are by very few points. It doesn't take much change from both the refs and the team to change the outcome of the game. If we kept losing by 20 or so, then the blame would have to be on the team. I just want to say to the refs "give us a break for once" and see if it makes a difference in tight games.

Igotmadskills u hit it on the head. Clarke chased the pint sized gary ervin & when that didnt happen he signed another 'spud webb' cause of the effect ervin had. Ervin is a truly great player & used his size & speed to dominate. Unless u r this good & quick being well under 6 foot in this league is a huge weakness other teams will expose.

In saying that Cedric jackson had a great game last night but has great talent around him also. Enough said...

EC and others- enough with the refs! They made some bad calls but this is the state of the NBL. Every other team (ie Townsville) gets them too. I don't remember complaining about the refs much back in the title days. The team is struggling and we all are desperate for wins (especially season ticket holders). Let's not pretend we're a playoff team if the refs give us a break, we're mediocre and we need everything working for us to get a win. The board needs to sit and ask some tough questions ie

What can we salvage from the season?
Do we stick with Chris Warren?
What's the story with Weigh's treatment vs Creek's?


Boti's article today alluded to other problems too and they need to be addressed. The board was ruthless in 1993 when it cut Monson and masterminded a plan to bring in Dunlap, is this current board made of the same stuff?

Clarke has undoubted knowledge of basketball but I question his ability to communicate the other stuff with players and how to rotate players. When you watch 36er timeouts they are all about plays to run and very little 1-on-1 time is given to address players mistakes/lapses etc or good old "rockets" to fire the team up.

Given that refs and their reffing have gone up shit creek without a paddle, on my next game at home; im gonna tell the guys on floor to flop and see what happens. Do we get called or will the refs get involved and do something about it.

You bet, they will question the coaching, but of the NBL allow it, it must be ok

I am getting so frustrated with the sixers at the moment.
The defensive structure is not all that great, which I suppose is a slight improvement on non existant earlier in the season. The coaching staff do not seem to know who their best defensive options are, nor how to get a team playing hard D. I'm sick of the rhetoric I'd actually like to see effort consistently. Defence after all is 80-90% effort and mentality. I actually admire the efforts of Cairns on the weekend. Whilst they were not always within the rules of the game they did a fantastic job of dictating terms to the offence and generally distracting the flow of the sixers.
I'm really quite sick of watching Ng being handed any half reasonable defensive assignment. I believe either Herbert or Creek should be first option, not sure yet on Bartlett, hell I'd much rather Daly being given the chance. At least he'd offer up an effort. Too often Ng gets caught out of position, refuses to offer help and simply does not have the size (or heart) to fight over screens.
Offensively we are one dimensional. Adjustments are made at the half, at which point we begin to struggle. Our wins so far seem to have come when our shooting % has been enough alone to cover this (have not checked into this, just a gut feel).
There are a lot of Helliwell bashers on here, but I'd like to see him operate closer to the rim, flatten the offence out and give Warren the room to penetrate and dish. Play to our strengths. Helliwell will never be good operating above the foul line and Warren too small to deal with big guys stepping out on the constant pick and roll scenarios. Give the man space to work with and provide dish options.
Some back door cut action for the likes of Creek and Weigh would be nice to see and clear out options for DJ to work in. I don't think there are any bigs that can cover this match up. The ball also must hit Simpsons hands at least 50% of offences, good to see him pass out when doubled on the weekend, shame we could not hit the shots.
Inject Ng as a spark only, if he misses his first shot or two he genrally does not contribute. Worth 2-3 minutes here and there if firing, but not much more.
Hopefully we are encouraging Creek to be postive fro the perimeter. i'm noticing signs of improvement in his shot and a little in confidence, however he still passed up a couple of options on the weekend - not like he could have shot any worse.
Finally what is with jacking 3's rather than grinding out a win. We have a beast in the post (Simpson) a mobile big in DJ and a couple of decent slashers in Weigh and Creek. Stop with the picks and Harlem Globetrotter routine outside the 3pt line and go to our strengths. We settle for the 3 ball too easily, but then again we are left with little option after 15-20 seconds of offence is above the 3 line......

Refs sucked, but that's not unusual and didn't cost us the game.

Cairns were awful, we were worse.

This continues as long as Clarke keeps coaching IMO.

Nothing new here.

Great write up SD even Simpson got sick of not getting ball and quick enough giving Bartlett a bake and Clarke called a time out in 3rd.
Yes Sixers plays are too much same and stagnent and opp .know what doing thus not many easy shots or moves
We finally have 2 good big man and now dont use them properly.
Botis article today was one of better relating many issues in game like Clarkes coaching stuff ups with bigs in 3rd and Ng guarding their best shooter etc
Only slight disagreement is on Creek yes he works hard and had a good game Sat and got a 3pt shot but if you saw his jump shots in shoot around you would not ask him to be taking too many of those open or not which is weakness stopping him from getting to where talent could take

Pass the ball to Simpson or Johnson in the post EVERY time on offense!!!
There should be no offense when one of those 2 don't get the ball in the post.

It is the only advantage the team has.

Play Creek 30min+ for the rest of the season and tell him to attack the ring and shoot when he is wide open.
He needs to develop some confidence on the offensive end.

Play Daly 15-20 minutes to see if he is good enough for next season, if he doesn't show it then do not re-sign him.
He has had a few seasons to show if he is an NBL player, time for him to prove it or for the team to move on.

Daly is only 20, he should get plenty more chances to prove himself.

Pass the ball to Simpson or Johnson in the post EVERY time on offense!!!
There should be no offense when one of those 2 don't get the ball in the post.

They should be doing it everytime until the opponent is forced to change their defence.
Can't think of to many players that can guard Simpson one on one.

So force the other team to double team him or play a zone D.
Either way it should make it easier to get our "shooters" (I use the term loosely) open for higher % shots.

It sure beats having Warren and Weigh shoot contested 3pointers after dribbling or passing the ball around for 20secs with no clear objective.

Also can sonmeone explain to me why this team doesn't get more fast break oppotunities???

We have the most athletic Centre in the NBL, fastest PG and Creek is obviously one of the most athletic players. Simpson and Weigh are at least average speed for their height.

Just seems like we should be getting more easy points on fast breaks.

Other teams already plan to defend them. That would be a key part of their game plan straight away.

On Saturday, first time we had the ball: Diamon missed FG, DJ o-board, kicked it out. Both players touched the ball immediately and we were prevented from scoring. (Obviously it was tried more times after that.)

I can only remember one time when one of the two was frustrated with not receiving the ball in the post - Diamon looked to have words with Bartlett at some point.

On another occasion, one of them had the advantage in the low block (against someone I can't recall and then Andrew Warren) but there was no clean feed.

Thanks Bretts the Man - I'm a long time reader, first real poster. I just could not contain my rage anymore!

I did not notice Simpson giving Bartlett a bake, but probably well deserved. There are a few others who need to learn how to pass to the interior also. Very frustrating to see passes made to the defender's side and low post passes being attempted fron above the foul line. Fundamentals 101....or no pass at all

I did take note of Creek during warm up & shoot around and agree still not great. As an aside he is one of the few lefties I've seen who does not shoot all that well. I think it is a little bit mental with him. When he just shot the ball rather than being mechanical it looked better. He had a few patches where he just shot and I wish he could get that into his game more as it looked better and hit regularly.

Hey anon agree with season lost would be good to give Creek more opportunities.
But re shoot out Creek is no. 23 as I know he got very few in except his flying dunks which he does 15 - 20 and gets 1 maybe every 2 actual games.
But agree least works butt off to defend .
Dont know Mitch history before Sixers whether if he had a jump shot that lost with confidence.

The most boring game I have ever been to and subsequently left at half time. For crying out loud, give us some excitement.

I don't see why people didn't find the game entertaining. Sure the game was low scoring but I still thought it was entertaining.

forcey

They made some bad calls but this is the state of the NBL. Every other team (ie Townsville) gets them too

people today have attention spans that can only be measured in nanoseconds, with their pacman video games and Dan Fogelberg music...

EC, I've been to every home game this year and I watch what I can of the other NBL games. It's pretty accepted the umpiring standard here has dropped over the last decade and we see examples of this league wide for all teams eg Patty Mills flop earlier this season. I agree we copped some stinkers but it depends on how you watch the game (you may also notice many Crows fans think we get screwed by the umps too). I get that some of the bad ones were at crucial times but you don't even worry about it when you can execute. Let me go "Moneyball" here for a minute.

Number of players on our current team who shoot over 44% from the field: 2 (DJ and DS)

Numbers of players on our 1998 team who shot over 44%: 9 (Mee,Maher,Rees,Brooks,Cattalini,Ninnis,Rillie,Sapwell,Brogan)

Number of players on our current bench who average 5+ pts a game: 1 (Ng)

Number of players on the 1998 bench who averaged 5+ pts a game: 4 (Ninnis,Sapwell,Davis,Rillie)

We just don't have the firepower. Warren is shooting at 40%, Weigh 37%. None of the 1998 team was near this. We don't have the cattle. A frontcourt of Creek,Simpson,Johnson,Weigh and Ballinger or Helliwell is a nice start for next season but the backcourt needs blowing up. We need two imports for the backcourt (pass first, bigger PG and a deadly shooter who can play D) and I'd keep Ng and Herbert.

Moneyball!! Stats are very important in assessing talent and depth of teams, but there are many variables that you have failed to mention.
40 min games v 48 has enormous impact on overall stats.Not to mention the change in defensive strategies and intensity. Go back and look at the scoring records and game totals or just go to the
great video produced by Coops and you will see the
lack of interest in defence. Also the style of officiating has a huge impact upon shooting %.
BG's style of game and the success that came withit changed Australian basketball, probably forever. Across the board shooting % are very low compared to the past.
No one would argue the level of talent in 98 team compared to todays. Perhaps how the club could afford such a team and the reprucussions of the spending would be a good debate.Very valid points about future team, but can't keep Simpson and have 2 import guards. Our team has good talent level but its lack of defense makes its success totally reliant on shooting the ball well. Is it the defensive system or the players lack of defensive ability? These are concerns for coaches/management,
cant fix the problem until you are sure what it is.
Overhalling the team as has been the case for the last 10 years is not the solution. Every year our team is virtually a new team. We have no identity.

forcey, I think it was you on Adelaide Now who said they were confident that most of Simpson's 7 o-boards gave him shots and that he wasn't receiving the ball enough. Three of them were followed by shots. Of the other four, one he turned over, another Creek turned over (I think) and another was back to back tip-attempts and then a Weigh turnover.

Creek, Crosswell and Bartlett are also over 44% FG. That's five. New Zealand only have four (

Talking about bench scorers is a little rough given we've had two major players out and a number of people in starting roles. Ballinger came off the bench and was 5+ PPG. Crosswell was initially off the bench and 5+ PPG as well, same with Creek. Bartlett 5+ PPG off the bench.

The only main rotation players under 5 PPG are Helliwell (10th man) and Herbert (4.9 PPG).

The Breakers have two bench players over 5 PPG.

Forcey, there have also been several significant changes to consider since 1998 as well, being the move to 40 minute games, the introduction of the extended three point line, and the general change to the way team defence has been played (championed by Goorjian's Sydney teams in the early 2000's).

Sack Marty.

The 1998 team was eventually fined for being over the salary cap too.

Number of Olympians on the 1998 team -2
Number of ex NBA players in 1998 -2
Number of WC players 1998 - 3
Number of NBL title winners pre 98 - 4

I can go on but you get the idea

v

2011/12

Olympians =0
NBA = 0
WC's = 1 ( Helliwell)
NBL title winners - 2 ( Herbert , Weigh)

The 1998 team was an amazing collection of talent, veterans and role players.

People need to realise that a team like this under the current rules will never happen again. Technically it shouldn't have happened then either.

One of Adelaide's problems for some time has been not having top level local talent. The last championship team that had two imports in its top three players was probably Sydney in 2003.

The 36ers have also lacked experience and smarts on their roster for a number of years, hence so many close games lost by poor last quarters.

That 1998 team had two good imports and two good Aussies (Mee, Brooks, Maher and Catt), and then a bunch of role players whose skills were used extremely well by Smyth. Add the veteran experience the team had and the huge amount of confidence Smyth pumped into his players and that is a great recipe for success.

They also had only one slow bloke (Rees) and a whole lot of mobile guys who could play multiple positions, very important in the NBL.

Look at Perth and New Zealand now, they have versatile and smart players, just like the 1998 Sixers and so many successful NBL teams over the years.

As for this year's team's shooting stats, you are way off the mark. They are shooting 45% from the field and 35% threes, averaging 86.6 points. The 1998 team shot 47% and 37% and averaged 104, which equals 86.7 per 40 minutes.

At the other end they allowed 45% and 36% and gave up 98 (81.7 per 40 minutes). This year's team is giving up 46%, 34% and 92 points. The big difference? The 98 team allowed only 12.5 free throws a game, this year they give up 25!

Correction - sorry, that is 17 FTA a game for opponents in 1998, but still 8 less than this year. The problems are almost exclusively at the defensive end. No team averaging nearly 87 points a game, shooting 45% and giving up just over 12 turnovers a game should be 5-10.

Darden wasnt close to the Dragons top three players, in fact his job was in danger for quite some time during the season.

I would've had Wortho and Gibson amongst their best. Darden was more of a role player who had flashes beyond that IMO.

Fair point, I exaggerated a bit there, TD was a good player.

But he struggled quite badly at times that year and had some good patches too. He was a very good defender, but Goorj only gave him 23 mins a game in 48 min games and he shot around 40% despite shooting mostly from inside the arc, that tells you the story (which I witnessed going to every home game) of how he really struggled to find a rhythm in that system.

He will always be remembered for that amazing third quarter in game 5 though, and has returned to Europe to do some very good things once again.

So, close to top three, but not in it. Do we have consensus? ;)

I guess Ill go back to my main point on the topic though, when we are arguing about a role player like Darden as a standout import on a championship team it shows how important local talent has been.

The good teams have good imports who fill a role that suits their skills - Wilkinson, Braswell, Lisch, Young, Smith, Darden, Thomas, Lampley, Victor, Draper, Rychart etc etc - rather than being relied upon to drive the team's offence.

Right now Warren and Simpson need to drive a lot of the offence, as did the imports last year (and failed miserably). Adelaide need to retain and keep developing the young Aussie talent they have and pick up a smart shooting guard - Dellavedova would be ideal.

Warren and Simpson are very talented players, improve the talent around them and they will become very good imports.

That sounds fair Isaac!

Oops, my bad, was up too late last night. Get an American PG as first priority. My %'s are correct, I said current team and Ballinger and Crosswell are out for the year. Can't gauge Bartlett yet as he's only played a few games.

Some good arguments "anon" but I seem to remember teams like the Magic and Wildcats being pretty solid on D, plus our 1998 team used to run the break a fair bit, leading to easier points and hence better FG%'s. Perth has 7 regulars shooting over 44% this year, mainly because they run a good offense that keeps the ball moving until they find an open man (see Game 1 vs Adelaide this year).

And yes Isaac that was me on Adelaide Now. Thanks for the correction, however that means he still then only took around 6-8 legit shots. That's mental. He should be getting the ball down low regularly. If he gets it in the right spot he's a beast to deal with. He can't shoot from beyond 10 feet so if he gets position we need to reward him.

I also think Johnson and Creek are very promising talents with still a lot of improvement to come, but you must get 2 guns as imports. This is almost the most important job coaches have. Simpson is a gun, unfortunately Warren isn't.

44% is "around 40%" and isn't brilliant for a guy shooting mostly inside. I think paul's point there was fair. Nitpicking really.

Forcey, you're comparing a team at a particular point with a season boxscore from the past. As BJF pointed out, that was from a team which could probably not be assembled now with the points cap and was even illegal under the salary cap of the time.

Like I said earlier, I can only remember one time in that game where Simpson was overlooked in the post and seemed frustrated. He went straight to speak with Bartlett. You can't guarantee x looks/game. You can't try the same thing every time down the floor. Your strategy doesn't exist in a vacuum. The other team are trying to deny him in the post. As it was, half the shots in the game went to two guys on for about 60-65 minutes out of 200. They are prioritising those two bigs. That wasn't our problem in that game IMO.

That was my bad, I read the percentages off Eurobasket which listed Darden as shooting 44% on two-point field goals and 32% on three-point field goals, hence around 40% overall. However, for some reason in that year they were listing total field goal percentage as two-point percentage which they dont anymore.

Regardless, my point remains that he was far from a driver in their offence, in fact he was just a finisher, and Adelaide needs to get better local talent so they dont rely on imports year after year to have to carry too much of the load.

Breakers are top of the table with Perth and often have 4-5 players in double figures and the top scorer usually only has a few points more than the next 2 guys.