Anonymous
Years ago

Average ladder position for Div 1 U10-18

OK, after Round 9 all Div 1 teams have played each other so knowing that all the JDO's and CD's like to discuss with results each other, as a Christmas treat I'll give them something to discuss over a quiet ale at the Ed.

This is the average ladder position for Div 1, U10 to U18 incl. I know some clubs choose not to nominate U10 teams. If a club has not nominated a team, their ladder position is 10. Some tables have several teams at "10th"

Boys Ave Ladder position: Sturt (2.8), Forestville (3.4), Southern (3.8), Norwood (4.2) (one top), Woodville (4.2), South (6.2), North (7.0) Eastern (7.4), West (7.8), Centrals (8.4)

Girls Ave Ladder position: Forestville (1.6), Sturt (3.4), Eastern (4.6) North (4.8) (one top) West (4.8), Southern (5.2), Woodville (7.6), Centrals (7.8), South (7.8), Norwood (8.2) - Norwood bottom? WTF?

Club Rank position is then based on the average ladder position for both boys and girls, then in event of a tie, split by number of tops, then win%.

1. Forestville (6 tops)
2. Sturt (1 tops)
3. Southern
4. Eastern (1 top, 56% wins)
5. North (1 top, 40% wins)
6. Woodville
7. Norwood (1 top)
8. West
9. South
10. Centrals

Merry Christmas!

Topic #27132 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Woodville boys look to be improving

Reply #343621 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Question is how much will the teams change come the winter season - especially with country kids comng back into teams??

Reply #343626 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Which teams are expecting country kids? Does that explain why Norwood girls looks woeful?

Reply #343628 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What I don't understand with Norwood is given their resources and their claim to be part of the Big 3 why does their development plan work to some extent for boys but doesn't deliver on the girls side.

Is there more to performing than JDO's?

Reply #343637 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

forestville just keeping top spot warm in the 18 boys for the moment, wont be there long

Reply #343642 | Report this post


deimos73  
Years ago

Norwood's girls program is woeful. Their boys' Div 1 teams will either make finals (14, 16, 18) or just miss out (12). Not exactly pushing for champion boy's club, but at least they are around the mark. The girls look absolutely terrible though. Right across the board, they are really really bad.

Question: What has the addition of a fulltime JDO added to Norwood's program? All that money spent, and they have gone significantly backwards.

Reply #343650 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why is Norwood's girls program any different to the boys program. Does the JDO and management oversee both programs or is this just rhetoric and individuals within in each program do things differently

Reply #343664 | Report this post


deimos73  
Years ago

#664 - I'd guess it has something to do with the experience of the coaches within the program. They have a terrific u10 boys coach who from all reports does an exceptional job. Most of their Div 1 boys coaches have a lot of experience at their respective levels, and understand how to be successful.
If you look at the girls coaches, most of them are fairly new to coaching, certainly at that level. The exception to this is the 18 G coach.
I think it's pretty clear that the programs drive themselves, hence my question above.

Reply #343668 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wait till u16 west girls start moving in protest to loosing loved coach,some teams nearby will get hot players.

Reply #343689 | Report this post


AK-47  
Years ago

Wouldn't go as far to say the girls program is awful, the under 18 girls won everything last year and the 16 girls were runners up at state champs. With the majority of the 18 div 1 girls this year first years I imagine they'll be around the mark next year. Just remember, we're 2 months into summer season. Hard to judge at this stage.

The Norwood Basketball Club has DEFINITELY not taken a backwards step since the inclusion of the JDO.

Reply #343695 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

U18 girls did not win summer, Mavs did. And they list state champs to sturt by 30.

Reply #343698 | Report this post


ankles  
Years ago

Anon 698...Last season Norwood U18 Girls won Winter, no one cares who won summer...
AK47 is right they are all 1st years this year....
deimos73, get a life and look for a brain cell while you are searching, did your daughter miss out on a div 1 spot?

Reply #343702 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How about at end of summer for finals.

Bottom team of Div 1 plays top of Div 2
Bottom team of Div 2 plays top of Div 3
Etc etc

Winner goes up in case of Div 2 beating Div 1.

At least kids would be playing in correct grades for winter.

At this stage Norwood will have 3 of the 5 teams playing in U14B North Pool A and Top of Div 1 & 2.

Needs to be incentive for teams to take summer seriously.

Reply #343712 | Report this post


deimos73  
Years ago

ankles - what are you on about? How on earth did you decide from my post that my daughter missed out on a div 1 spot? I have simply called it as many people see it. It's obvious Norwood's girls program is not in good shape. Why so defensive? As for your "get a life and look for a brain cell while you are searching" - how old are you, ten? Really, how immature of you. If you want to debate facts about Norwood's program, I'm happy to respond, but at this point you have no comeback so you resort to childish insults. Grow up.
So back to you - tell me (seeing as you are obviously an insider, which I am not)- what in my posts is not factual?

Reply #343713 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ankles is a east coast dad with a chip he likes to off load

Reply #343714 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

deimos73, don't worry about it. There's a lot of crystal jaws in basketball circles.

Reply #343716 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 698, youre right. But they were the only team in that comp. to make all three g/finals.Indicating to me that they were obviously the best team over the whole year.Which is possibly what AK-47 and ankles are trying to emphasise?Some of these girls were also involved in the U23s which Norwood won easily.Which team performed best at Classics, not sure but I think it was Norwood.Point is it is only summer which no one REALLY cares about.

Reply #343723 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

hmmm so no-one cares about summer, and they still are the worst girls in Div 1. I hate to think what happens when the other 9 clubs get serious in winter!!

Reply #343725 | Report this post


Anon 698  
Years ago

I would think that people care who wins state champs.

And Norwood got beat by 30.

So the U18 girls didn't 'win everything last year', in fact they only won one GF. And at classics they only finished 5th with Sturt finishing 6th. So that would suggest that they weren't clearly the best team, perhaps only marginally at best, if at all.

And as for this years team. Even if they are all first years, they finished 8th in winter season last year.

So by defining last years U18s as easily the best team, that means that this years team is easily the 8th best team, which is a 'woeful'.

Reply #343743 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

ouch

Reply #343745 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

mines bigger than yours!!

get over it people

Reply #343760 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As a Norwood player i say welcome to anybody from West who wants to come over for winter.

Reply #343819 | Report this post


Mystic  
Years ago

819- Careful what you wish for. It might be your position in the team that is up for grabs.

Reply #343822 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ahh spoken like a true norwood player. Norwood have always been very keen poachers. Now no one is moving there the lack of development is standing out... I'm sure you would loose ur spot. West have some very good, well coached juniors.... Struggling atm with lots of bottomager in div 1. The west coaching group is outstanding though, packed with those with real basketball experience and insight and they are developing some excellent talent.

Reply #343823 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

and despite Henny Penny's assertions that the sky would fall in without him at West they haven't.

Reply #343832 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Based on the above is Sturts Championship run under threat!!

Reply #343920 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No doubt that sturt are dropping the ball. However the fear is now that they have lost a little bit of focus when there JDO eventually is shifted on who will step in. Sturt are very deep and have many people that could step in to the role, revitalised, excited and ambitious. As an opposition club I hope sturt runs with the status quo as it will help ensure their gradual decline.

Reply #343929 | Report this post


ceres73  
Years ago

The problem with the fulltime JDO role at clubs is that the amount of money on offer is not enough to attract high quality applicants. Most people who could do the role justice are simply not interested because their own jobs pay significantly better. Sturt have been extremely lucky to have PM because he is obviously an exception to this and has done a terrific job.

Reply #343934 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Someone that sets up and runs domestic comps, someone that gets into schools, someone that runs div 1 district teams, someone that does all the admin tasks, someone that works with elite juniors are all very different jobs. THere are few people good at all this. Clubs that employ fulltime JDOs will find they become strong in some areas and weak in others. Norwood are not good at developing elite players now, but are still growing and have a growing domestic competition. Once the kids get good at norwood or are good they will move onto an environment that they are better supported in.

Reply #343939 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I know southerns JDO job was advertised last year go 40k a year + bonuses and he left to a new job paying double that so how much should clubs be offering!

Reply #343940 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Split the job up. Director of Coaching is a part time role for someone well educated or intelligent, that has significant basketball experience. Generally these people have professional jobs paying vastly more what they could earn as a fulltime junior Coaching Director.

JDO is for a younger up and coming kid that will work full time for peanuts. Partner with a school, council or centre for your domestic competition.

Once hte jobs are split if you happen to find someone that is willing and able to do well in all 3 roles then thats fine they might be fulltime, but each role should be treated independently, but overseen by a central board/committee/body.

Reply #343942 | Report this post


Vesta  
Years ago

Didn't Sturt just win all 6 State Champs trophies? Not sure how that equates to dropping the ball, or even aa gradual decline, considering no club has ever achieved it before! Not sure how there is a slide, seems that Forestville always do better over summer, and then Sturt wins at State Champs.

Reply #343963 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Vesta,

Just = seven months ago.

Why do you think that Sturt performs better at State Champs compared with Summer.

Is it an influx of country kids in winter?

Is it kids moving from other clubs in winter season following contact by a certain un named person to their parents to cover gaps?

Sturt sand bag during summer?

Maybe that will explain why their 14/1 boys lost to Centrals?

Reply #343967 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

To post above I would say the answer is as follows:

HARD WORK



Reply #343971 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The answer to all this is :

End of Summer

Top div 2 vs Bottom div 1
Top div 3 vs bottom div 2
etc
etc
etc

Get rid of North South rubbish.

Promote the winner. Relegate the loser.

Reply #343972 | Report this post


Vesta  
Years ago

I'm not sure. Maybe they rotate players more and lose the odd game over summer. But get their teams right for winter and State Champs. Could be that they dont introduce things against some opponents so that they can't be scouted, while other teams play zone and all their set plays just for a summer win. Or that their te4ams improve over the corse of the season more.

But working on that close a terms of reference, all JDO's should get the sack every year. Surely you wait until the end of the year to judge their performance. And considering the success Sturt had last year, which was probably an up year, you would think that they are at least headed in the right direction.

Reply #343979 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

or maybe the other clubs are working harder and that the gap is truly closing.

Reply #343983 | Report this post


Vesta  
Years ago

Surely that doesn't happen in 6 months? Considering last year was the most dominant State Champs ever! It just seems that every summer, Forestville or Mavs Girls get on here and claim State Champs after a good summer season and then Sturt clean up at State Champs. It seems to be a recuring theme. I am sure that Forestville or someone else will beat Sturt at State Champs one of these days. But until that happens consistantly, it isn't worth much is it?

Reply #343988 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Seems that some clubs think a one of tournament called state champs is the be all and end all whereas many other clubs believe the winter GF is best for assessing a clubs performance.

I guess it depends how many people you can get in from the country for the state champs and the qualifying games as to which you think is the better and which is then the best measure of development of players across the club

Reply #344001 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Vesta, how much more consistent do Forestville girls need to be at the state championships?

State Champion Club Female
2011 Sturt Sabres 
2010 Forestville Eagles 
2009  Forestville Eagles 
2008 Forestville Eagles
2007 Forestville Eagles

Reply #344093 | Report this post


Tiger Wooduck  
Years ago

Generally Sturt have always been better placed throughout the grades then this Summer season.

They clearly have a lot of work to do in some grades to be considered a genuine chance to win.

It will be interesting to see if they can close the gap and more interesting to see how they do it?

Reply #344134 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Tiger,

You are so right - they are starting the winter season further back than usual but what scares me is your last comment. Already we have had a few kids from our club had "feelers" out about whether they would like to change clubs.

Reply #344153 | Report this post


Tiger Wooduck  
Years ago

Well it will be a test as to wether they can develop their teams or backfill the gaps.

Reply #344163 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Forrestville aren't doing too bad on the recuitment front.

Reply #344242 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 4242 ^ what age group are they recruiting and from which clubs

Reply #344246 | Report this post




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