Still want the return of the Victoria Titans...awesome name, singlets etc. Also a team i loved to hate

I'd agree,

Wait until the NBL really starts improving in popularity/attendance (i.e. getting to the next level) before introducing a second team in select capital cities!

We need someone other than the tigers to support. They don't give a stuff about the kids and families that want to watch the games!!

The Dragons also had a season finishing last or close to it.

Melbourne really doesn't NEED a second team but the Tgers can't be Melbourne's only team. This sounds contradictory I know but hear me out.
The tigers are not well supported by the metro basketball community... The NBL team/s from Melbourne need to be unafiliated with the local associations directly.
Asking nunawading, sandi, Kilsyth kids to support a club they play against is just a silly model that has proved it doesn't work as well as the alternative ie magic, titans, dragons.

... And a new Brisbane team/Bullets - http://andthefoul.net/archives/2263

Why not give a team to a smaller city that would pack out every game like Cairns does?

Keith, I accept the sense of what you are saying, but it seems it doesn't fit the reality - the Tigers are still here - the others aren't.

Best of luck to the new franchise - I think Melbourne should have a second team and that there is enough talent to go round.

This is great for NBL players everywhere - top players are going to be worth more as teams compete for signatures.

But it will make life tough for clubs looking to improve in an off-season. The 36ers, for example, will want to lock a few players in before things heat up. Someone like Creek, for example, could well be lured by a promise of more time.

I wonder if the points cap will reduce or remain the same (rather than rising)?

If the import restrictions were loosened so Asian players could play as non-imports this would strengthen the league slightly, even with 5-6 players.

Stuff a 2nd Melbourne team.

Bring back the Brisbane Bullets.

Brisbane and Melbourne likely to be announced this week...

Brisbane to field a team from next season, and Melbourne's second team the season after...

curtley, I don't think it would. When Liu Wei (Chinese national team) played for Perth, I don't remember him doing much. Any Chinese players, for example, will get better money staying in their local league. The money in and around Chinese basketball right now is perhaps multiple tiers above that for the NBL.

Agree with issac, this is good for the game in a big way.
I have faith in the new BA management of the NBL that this new Melbourne team will be a long term program, hopefully the end to the volatile second Melbourne team history.

Given Ben Dowdell, one of the best players in our World Uni Games team, couldnt get a roster spot in the NBL this year and has turned to aussie rules, and two starters from the NZ team that finished 12th at the WCs cant get a contract, I dont think quality of talent is an issue.

We will just uncover more talented 'unwanteds' like Dillon, Walker, Bartlett, Madgen etc, and hopefully clubs will try harder to get the top AIS guys instead of them going to college.

Two more teams also means $1.8-$2 million more available to players, increasing the chances of luring some guys back from overseas.

Also there is a pool from New Zealand side as well, I think there should be a few of them deserve to fill the spots in NBL (if the ball club accept kiwis).

Talent isn't an issue. It's whether the teams here can afford to pay them what they are worth elsewhere. And even if they can't there are plenty of decent players not worth the big euro bucks who are more than capable of playing pro ball. But I remember brisbanes last title team drawing no one to games. I'm worried about whether it's viable from a fan base perspective. A few angry die hard fans writing petitions do not a stadium crowd make. Beware of the screaming minority...

Melbourne a shot at two teams

There's definitely a market for the second Melbourne team in the East - it comes down to how they tap into the basketball community out there. I'll definitely go to NBL games if they're based out there rather than in the city.

And I'm not one of the "angry die hard fans" who lost a team in the past, I'm an ex Tigers Member and Sponsor. I just can't bring myself to trek into The Cage and pay those prices these days. 15 minutes down the road to see a game, at something less than $150 for me and the family, and I'm in!!!

I loved watching the Dragons and if the money is there I would love to support another Victorian based team, if the money is there!

Look at the soccer model, they have improved but still some teams have changed and others dropped off, so they are still working out their best model for the Aussie market...

Soccer and cricket dominate summer months, as does the outdoor BBQ and beach activities, less likely that people want to go to basketball or anything else for that matter.

Basketball needs to move back to the winter season to succeed, get out of the summer months and get the best players in the NBL while the SEABL level guys learn the caper at the next level down.

Monster the TV and start promoting the game... People want to go to something other than Rugby or Footy and Hoops gives them a real alternative!

Get the crowds back and then the sponsorship dollars may follow....... Money talks folks!

Bear, surely AFL and NRL will draw bigger crowds away from the NBL than Cricket & Soccer. I'm pretty sure they have done the math and thats why they currently play over Summer?

Not so sure about that, as I see it the crowds that go to NRL or AFL are very different and how many are we talking about really?

Basketball is more cosmopolitan, it's a place you can go in winter to be indoors, with your girlfriend or kids and then still have time to go out for dinner or even a movie...

I'm sure the math has been done too, but I also suspect that it would be too hard to go back to the good old days!

Personally I would love to see the Geelong Supercats back in the NBL, now that would set the preverbial cat among the pidgions....

With a venue barely holding 1600, difficult to see the Supercats in the league!

And Mick, why not give a smaller city a team so they can pack out the venue....?

a) they don't rate on tv
B) they don't rate on tv and
c) they don't rate on tv

Does anyone know what the new venue at Knox is meant to hold? I heard 5k originally but it had been downgraded?

Original plans were 3500 stage one, 5000 stage two.

3000 seats is all the new venue will hold making it easily the smallest venue in the NBL. They have stated openly that ticket sales (even if every game is sold out) will not cover costs, with a big reliance on sponsorship dollars. Apparently there is a lot of money behind the bid, however one does wonder with the global economy the way it is if things don't get well early, how long will those sponsors want to keep losing money?

paul even if dowdell had gotten a roster spot he would likely spend most of the first few years getting minimum gametime even though he is 24 ( ish?).

i guess a lack of spots for some of our developing talent is a problem but a bigger problem might be how we develop those young talents.

even adding 2 new teams ild expect they would simply sign a couple of imports and a bunch of old hands and one or 2 young guys who will play minimum gametime.

i believe we have a handful of guys getting around who should be playing nbl and adding one team will make zero difference to the overall standard. adding another after that could thin it out a bit but not drastically especially if these new teams can lure an expat or 2.

The last thing the NBL should be concerned about is tv ratings. No one is going to watch a game on TV with an empty stadium...it's such a turnoff to casual fans. They see the empty stadium on TV and they instantly think "this is amateur".

They should focus on steady, sustainable growth, and getting people to the actual goddamn games so the people watching TV don't have to watch another embarassing Melbourne or Brisbane turnout with an empty stadium in every other shot.

Get a team in a regional center (not a small town, but somewhere with 150k+ people and not a billion other sports to compete with) and watch the stadium pack out night after night for the next twenty years, watch a community take in their team and support them to the death; watch kids grow up wanting to be their favourite player. That's what basketball is supposed to be about.

There is a reason Perth & Townsville are the most economically viable teams in the league and have been for 20 years: because people go to the bloody games, they buy the jerseys, and they buy corporate boxes, and season tickets year after year. It's called manageable, sustainable growth and the NBL doesn't have a bloody clue what that's about. I reiterate the quote that I read from NBL upper management about their mission statement at this year's season launch: "to be the leader in sports entertainment in the Asia Pacific region by 2015..."

Errr....what? Are you serious? It's laughable that that's what they are aiming for. You can't plan for that. It's just stupid.

If the AFL adds a team: it's ten years of careful planning, not "oh by the way next year we are going to have another team even though there's no demand, and you know what? The year after we are going to add yet another! Feasibility studies be damned! "

I should add, by the way, I'm not so against a second Melb team...if there is legitimate demand. I know there are lots of ball fans who hate the Tigers and would follow a second team down there.

I am, however, against a team in Brisbane as I know it's a waste of time. I went to those games in the championship season and you could hear a cricket chirping in there. That's with a salary-cap cheating team that's full of stars playing exciting ball and winning lots of games.

You ask the average Brisbane citizen about the Bullets, and they wouldn't have a clue who you were talking about, now or then. They don't care, and there is no demand.

I'm happy to stand corrected but the several games I have been to in Brisbane have been poorly attended and with a silent crowd that doesn't seem to care. Hope it works out for them there but I just don't think it will.

Televised games make sponsorship easier to sell.

Perth do well off-court because they consistently win on-court.

Finally a team that plays in Melbournes east. No one wants to spend 1 and a half hours travelling on a round trip to the basketball - especially since the games have been reduced in minutes!. Now its just a 5 minute trip - Im there

it's in the South East because that's where all the basketball happens in Melbourne (remember where the recent NBA cares clinic was held at???)...

Dandy, Knox, Sandy. Them 3 are probably the biggest clubs in the country with 1000s of juniors hence it make sense. Not to mention the local ITC has moved out of MSAC to Knox in the Eastern suburbs also.

conversely most of the family live out that way will not drive a 90+ minutes round trip to see the much hated Tigers...

I believe Kilsyth and Dandenong are the two biggest in terms of numbers and probably overall size. I believe Kilsyth (including Lilydale) now has 10 courts and Dandenong have about the same.

Knox has six courts if I remember correctly.

Knox has original stadium and now the new 6 court stadium(new hone for basketball Vic ) as well. has all outside venues and 2 new courts that opened last year at local school(knox paid half)

So any word on whether the nbl commission accepted the new melb and bris team today?

Mick, I'd put it to you differently. TV ratings are and should be the NBL's major priority. If you want a league in regional centres with good crowds you've already got it, it's called the SEABL, or QABL. Extracting a budget of anything more than 500,000 in those markets is almost impossible, and stepping up to NBL might reap them an extra 500,000.

You see, to be a successful national team the sport (league) as a whole needs revenue. While Perth is moderately successful (it's had loss making seasons a number of times) and Townsville WERE successful financially, their success only rewards them. It does not build the product overall.

The AFL are in GC and WS because of demographics and major market growth. The AFL are rich, because their product as a whole generates massive revenue, not because Collingwood or West Coast do brilliantly by themselves.

If you want the NBL to be a small market league then good luck, because it will then get small market sponsorship, small market media and small market tv. No one will cover and nationally back a league where Cairns, Townsville and Canberra draw 5000 per game, but Sydney and 2 x Melbourne draw 2500 each.

Cold hard reality is, if you want to be a viable league on the national stage in Australia, you must make some impact on TV ratings on FTA in Sydney and Melbourne. Rugby Union does this, Rugby League does this, AFL does this and Cricket does this - all of them emphatically. The A-league does ok on PTV, ... but its probably the next best performer and right now it's league revenues, and therefore the strength of its product, is under huge strain.

Mick, what bloody Brisbane games were you going to?

I was a season ticket holder and that stadium took in plenty of fans every game! Even when they were down the bottom of the ladder a decade ago!

Championship team having no fans in a quite stadium? You were blind...and deaf!

Melbourne does need a second team, The Tigers are the Collingwood of Basketball if you don't go for them you hate them as us Dragons fans did...
Bring in the team and it will have the fanbase as big or bigger than everyother team, crazy if they don't go with Dragons or another defunct team...