There's no NBL matches tonight...

What KET said.
Sydney were meant to play tonight, but SEC doubled booked so Sade is playing tonight. Thats why there was 2 games on last night.

Bugga, should've checked that I guess. But still stand by my point! Coverage is shocking!!!

Sadly Anon has a good point, hindsight is a funny thing, but shouldve taken the live game... and filled the half time with as much highlights of the other games and net info to keep fans informed and interested. NBL on tv is in rip mode under onehd as of right now.

The live game was sunday 1pm... I would watch more delayed games than that time slot so good choice NBL!

The 1 live game Ten offered was midday Sunday. Which means games in WA would have to start at 9am! Impossible.
3 games delayed was the correct move. I would rather see 3 games delayed than 1 game a week at Midday on a Sunday.

+1 to three delayed games. Haven't watched many of them, but would never remember a live Sunday broadcast anyway.

another one for 3 delayed games. we are in the technology age now people, if you dont have some sort of device that can record a program with a timer then your Amish community probably dont approve of you supporting basketball anyway.

I do enjoy live games to but given the ultimatum that the NBL was given then i too would have made the same decision. plus who wants to be stuck at home 1pm in the middle of summer when you could be out enjoying the sunlight.

Both offers are ridiculous, the three delayed games is just the slightly less horrible option.

I don't mind the games being delayed, but the general consensus from the people I have spoken to is that it is the EXTENT of the delay which is the problem.

Watching a match at 1 or 2am in the morning - 5 or 6 hours after the completion of a match is a joke.

Also, I know of one or two people who record the games as they work in the morning, but despite doing everything in their power during the day to avoid a score - they cant and their games are spoiled.

1 live game a week costs OneHD/Ten $25,000;
3 live game each week $75,000

Ultimately OneHD/Ten will need to make a commercial decision: do they keep losing bucks and p*ssing off a small but passionate demographic OR do they keep losing bucks and comply with the intent of their contract OR do they cut their losses and tell the NBL to go away (and pay out their contract).

Anyway you look at it, the NBL have made the right decision. They need to wait it out with 4 games scheduled next year and 5 the year after that. OneHD/Ten's losses will keep mounting up and very soon they will reach a point where they need to decide how much money will it take to make this problem go away.

Unfortunately business is involved with any pro leagues. ONEHD have a offered a low settlement buyout to the NBL to have both parties walk awa.. The NBL, rightfully so, refused. ONEHD will slowly up there offer as they want NBL off their books. Lets not forget that years 3,4,5?? I believe there will be up to 5 games shown a week. All the NBL will need to do is move weekends to say.....6pm games (Sunday Games even earlier) and the within 3hour of live rule will screw ONEHD as NBL will be shown at approx 7-9pm start times. Lets not forget ONEHD signed a deal, and are now trying to get out of the deal so are trying to make the NBL basically say screw it, we will walk away. (they are doing this by trying to make as difficult as possible for the NBL through legal loopholes..ie live games.
NBL in my opinion are doing the right thing.

Ps. It costs ONEHD approx 50k a game in production costs. Thats 250k a week in the final couple of years of the contract with the NBL.

ONEHD screwing the NBL now, NBL can screw them back in the future.
Patience.

If the NBL had ripped up the current contract to accept 1 live game a week, they would have given up any future leverage they have (even if minor), so it was definitely the right decision by the NBL.

average okka you cannot be serious that prod costs run at 50 grand, surely not. even estimates here of 25 grand while they may be true or not sound like complete ineptitude. these guys are not free- lancers but would all be ten/one hd staff. what the hell are they paying these guys? maybe $2000 a week? and getting the people/gear around australia ( although im sure they would also quite often just use locals to each area for some staff and equipment). its not like they had to hire the equipment from rentlo either, if onehd dont have a couple of cameras to spare for 3hrs 3 times a week than who does..

So a couple people standing around for 3 hours pointing cameras at a ball magically makes pretty pictures appear on my television screen?

Oh and a basketball game goes for about 2 hours so its only half an hour pack up/pack down? When do they get time to film those.. hilarious.. pre game skits
Do they get 80% of the crowd to move out of the way at half time to film them? since the stadium always looks empty?

I would say 25k a game would be a very conservative estimate.

So a couple people standing around for 3 hours pointing cameras at a ball magically makes pretty pictures appear on my television screen?

Oh and a basketball game goes for about 2 hours so its only half an hour pack up/pack down? When do they get time to film those.. hilarious.. pre game skits
Do they get 80% of the crowd to move out of the way at half time to film them? since the stadium always looks empty?

I would say 25k a game would be a very conservative estimate.

I have heard it costs nearly $50k per game to be shown whether it is live or delayed. The production costs are that expensive when you include travel, camera wages, commentator wages etc.

That makes the decision not to show it live more puzzling.....bad business. Thats Packer though (shows you cannot buy brains).

ok so even if we go with excessive prod costs of $25 large per a game, and what did ten/one pay for the nbl rights?? i cant find it so we would have to work out what it would be per a game from that?

what we do know is that australian tv runs approx 12-18mins of adds per an hour ( no restrictions on per an hour content, only 24 hrs which i cant find the amount but its generally said to be on average 15ish mins an hour). in show advertising is not counted to that quota ( which is different to many countries). the quota has been reported as being broken by media watch but i could not find any recorded penalties handed out to an australian station, it appears to be more a guideline or loose rule of thumb.

from trolling the net the general concensus is that cost of air time is pretty much all over the place and not exactly released but is put at anywhere from $5000- $10000 for 30 secs of air time. i think an estimate of $2000 for 30 sec for nbl in their timeslots wouldnt be too huge a stretch.

to be honest ill go with 17mins per an hour, i think thats about right.

2 hrs x 17mins x $4000 = $136000 per a game.

i would say all those estimates are hugely conservative. we think there are many more than 17 mins of adds an hour on some nbl games. it doesnt count any sponsors onehd has. it doesnt count sponsored arrangements for in-programming adds which have become hugely popular in aus sports lately ( because unlike other countries we dont regulate it).

so we could place a conservative estimate at anywhere from $150000 + per a game. how much is the deal with iinet worth? does ten get that or nbl? what about all the "this show is brought to you by" sponsors?? how much is that worth a game?? the figure could easily blow out to $180000+ maybe?

if the deal was worth 35 mill over 5 years split to approx 30 weeks of scheduling of 3 games thats split to $77000 per a game. + prod cost lets just even it out at a hundred grand.

so without taking in alot of the extra deals i dont know about a conservative guess is $50 large profit a night? at a poor timeslot to one of their sister stations that will quite likely not steal ratings from one of their other sister stations allowing them to keep their premium price tags for adds, like you could put cops at that timeslot and maybe know that it will pull say 200000, but how many of those would have just watched what ever program was on ten/ eleven anyway? whereas nbl would pull in alot of viewers at a time who wouldnt have watched anything at all.

anyway the point im getting at is nbl should be quite viable,

either it is highly viable but like most big comglomerates they figure why make millions when you can make billions and anything less than that isnt worth getting out of bed for or,

they are hugely incompetent at managing their finances and business and have huge cost blowouts attached to everything they do.

its probably some combination of both to tell the truth. it bit of further research might show im off on some of my numbers but i think they are fairly conservative anyway.

seriously if costs are above 20 grand per a game ill vomit. give me a job managing it please.

is this factoring in equipment costs that they already own? cause some of those cameras must cost anywhere from 20 grand up, they also must get around filming netball, afl, motor racing, golf, cycling, iron man events etc. none of it is specific to basketball nor has had to be purchased purely for that. not many would be filming around the same time leaving much of the equipment free. i doubt you could factor excessive amounts of it to the budget for filming a game.

how many employees can you buy a night with say ten grand??

what would a camera man/ sound tech cost?? 100ish an hr? i doubt its that huge?

what about all the setting up that has to be done?? yeah , because you pay the professionals the big bucks to do that, or, do you have some interns/ assistants on $30 an hr there doing that??

a game may be shown for 2 hrs on tv alexrad, but it doesnt take 2 hrs to film the game portion.

so even if you take the ludicrous amount of say 12 cameramen/ sound engineers/ sound recorders etc and say they are on the ridiculous $150 an hour for 4 hrs , $1800

take another say 12 or so assistants/ make-up ward robe/ drivers on a quite high $60 an hour for 5 hrs. $720

+ a production manager on a high wage of 200 for 5 hrs. $1000

+ 2 commentators. i doubt carfino is on a million dollar deal. even at a hefty say $250000 deal for one season which i doubt he is even in the vicinity of what could we say? 3 grand a game can be attributed to him?

lets say 2 commentators at $5000 for the night would be safely over the real amount.

what do we get...

$8520 for one game and i have been hugely generous with pay scales and the amount of people needed.

ok so we have $8250 for people required to do the job.

so now to fly them, wait a minute, are you telling me they fly people from syd to these locations 3 times a week? and the equipment?? is syd the only place where channel ten exists? or people with qualifications to operate this equipment? or the only place that has the equipment?

would you not hire say staff in adelaide to film the i guess 6 or so televised games in adelaide?? and hire staff in perth to film the 10 or so games there?? could you not just fly out the 2 or 3 or 4 people required that cannot be found in those cities? ie carfino / prod manager? what could you attribute in costs here?? flights and a hotel? an extravagent $2000 for flights and one nights accomodation per a person? they usually partner carfino with whichever former nbl player they have on staff at that city ( further proof that they would look locally for most work)

4 people

$8000.

lets round the number down just a fraction and say we are sitting at $16000 a game paying ridiculous amounts. thats only for games outside sydney.

seriously you are gonna tell me that $25000 to film one game is a conservative estimate when going to extremes i have $16000? there would be some costs i dont know about involving getting it to our screens but i dont see how that could be the difference. i dont think you can tack on the price of putting a satelite in orbit since that was independent of anything of the nbl for instance.

So what you are saying is apart from paying a few wages and a couple flights there are no other costs involved in operating a TV station?

Good news - I might start my own TV station then!?

Phil = NFI

yeah i have no idea. yet im trying to work it out with logic but you are just making statements with nothing to back it up?

if im wrong with my logic dont just say your wrong, because that shows nothing but a lack of process, show me where my logic is wrong. just waving at some non-specific thing isnt enough. you think it is 50 grand to produce each nbl game?? show me where it says that?? is it reliable?? how do you work it out to be 50 grand??

and if everytime an add or promo for the station comes on is because they couldnt fill that spot than channel go must have massive problems? ive never seen so much filler in all my life as on that station.

alexrad what are you talking about?? how can you attribute the costs of running a station to the prod costs of televising an nbl game?? what have they specifically had to spend purchasing, leasing, or on staff for an nbl game?? do you seriously think they have $20000 cameras just sitting in a cupboard for golf telecasts that get pulled out when daly strolls into town?? or do you think they have an inventory of equipment in certain places to cover what they will need?? then you cant really attribute $100000 to cameras for prod costs of nbl if they didnt specifically buy them for that! do you think onehd are splashing out on stuff just to use for nbl??

honestly im sick of the naysayers and doom and gloom people that get around slagging australian basketball ( its a very good product with some flaws) and saying crap like nobody watches nobody cares and its dead in this country. bullshit. bloody bullshit. onehd didnt just invest in a 5 yr deal without doing the numbers, they would have had more accountants going over it than you could imagine. the simple fact is now, with a change of management they simply want to bring in a cheaper product to increase their profit margin. hence why we have seen a big influx of shows like airline and reality crap like cops and lifeguard crap. most of it is more than ten years old and would be incredibly dirt cheap to purchase a full season. not to mention they can chop and change the season episodes or timeslot with no fuss. honestly it could pull in sfa ratings as well but they wont consider it a loss as it was a very minimal investment. nbl broadcasts are viable and will make them money. just maybe not the easy money the new management wants. not to mention if people get sick of free to air sports and turn to foxtel it is also a win for onehd management ( how that is not a conflict of interest is beyond me?? i thought they had serious laws regarding media in this country?)