yes they can - and i am unsure if it is a forfeit or score remains if the other team was winning.

was it district ?

If your player wasnt just being a **** and had reason to complain to the refs you should put in a formal complaint to the stadium manager.

We had in our semi final last season an absolute unmentionable word umpiring who was basically useless except for calling tech fouls. anyway after a very hostile game we thanked the other ref who we knew personally since primary school and then this ref in question started calling tech fouls on us for singling out one of the umpires when thanking them and then the following abuse hurled at him for not knowing the rules. He than proceeded to go get the score sheet from the ref room and give the other team 12 free throws for the techs.

Needless to say I emailed a formal complaint and we went on to the win the grand final the next week. The umpire no longer umpires at that stadium too.

The Refs can certainly call a game off. I find it rather hilarious in the instance that ONE player caused the game to be cancelled.

If the abuse can from a group of players or a fight, I could certainly understand.

But honestly to that ref; grow some balls and keep the game going. The tech fouls were the smart idea to combat it. If the guy keeps going off, tell his coach to rope him in or keep serving tech fouls until the guy leaves or the coach stops him.

If your mate keeps going off like that, you need to bench him for the next few games or tell him not to turn up until the attitude changes.

The referee can only call the game off once Chuck Norris has approved this action.

a referee CAN stop a game but this is a clear misuse of that power and not what the rule was intended for. Clearly they just couldnt handle it anymore and wanted to be done with it. Problem is they punished 9 or more other players who were doing nothing wrong.

Unless a large number of people were acting this way making the game unplayable or their was the threat of violence and danger occuring to other players or the referees then the process should have been very simple.

Give the player two tech fouls, then if he keeps going ask him to leave, if he keeps going stop the game until he leaves and/or ask his teams other players/coaches/parents/managers etc to assist you in making him leave otherwise they will forfiet the game, if he leaves you carry on with the game, if he doesnt leave you forfeit the team for not doing the right thing.

This way you either only penalise the individual or you penalise the team because they were not assisting you let the game go on.

no threats, not even any [really] bad language.
Just comments like, "you are completely useless, all your calls are bullshit, how are we supposed to make a comeback with you complete lack of knowledge of the game, the only call you got right was the techfoul, and even then i called your calls bullshit and you didnt call shit etc". then on the way out he said, and the thing that caused the game to be called off was "you can shove your two tech fouls up your arse".

Yes.

wondering where this happened Wayville or Pasadena??

Fact is: refs get paid. Copping the abuse is part of it. Suck it up. If you're not performing expect it.

If a game is called off under the above circumstances, that referee in question should no longer be deemed competent and should be booted or severely educated.

To both Anon posts above:

I understand where you are both coming from on your comments and respect that, but both answers have their own ignorance to them.

If you've watched Basketball games, or participated in a Basketball game (I'm assuming being a ref requires some expose to either), then you'd be ignorant to assume that abuse isn't going to happen.

Sales jobs, Helpdesk jobs, call centers: these are example jobs where you are told upfront before taking the job that you can expect some customers to be angry and abusive and you're taught how to handle it. I'd suspect that referees aren't offered that level of support before choosing that career path, but they should. I've been a basketball fan for 20 years and I've known the whole time that refs cop flak during games, so naturally if I wanted to be a BBall Ref, I know what I'd be jumping in to.

In Pwned's instance, calling the game off was just stupid. Those sorts of lines warrant additional tech fouls and nothing more.

If it's in a social league game where you don't always have a coach; I'd be telling that players team to calm their player down and send him away. If the team fails or chooses NOT to act in order to keep the game going, then I'd be calling the game off.

Well this is another ref speaking here but the agreement is once you walk onto the referee's (officiating that game's) court you are under the bi-rules and guidlines of him or her. If you fail to do so punishment is in order, that referee who made that call must have had complaints from other players from the same team. It comes under bringing the game into disrispute and disputing officials decisions
The Team would be sent to tribunal on two counts 1. Team being unlawful to the game 2. The player that caused all the commotion!!! Both parties would be dealt a suspension for a certain period of time.

One thing has to be remembered that referee's have the power to control the game so you screw up you'll pay the consequences!

Actually Captain Dan the referee's are under the same rules as the players. FIBA rules, NOT The rules unto some social / district referee.

To many referee's out there think that they are god's and that the game wont exist if they weren't there. Um players can call their own fouls or coaches can. We seem to do it at ABL / State scrimmages when referee's don't rock up.

At the end of the day yes the referee has the right to call off the game, but "most" (not all) of the time its their own fault for letting games get out of hand for not calling or being consistent with what they are calling.

ginger meggs....players can call their own fouls???......oh dear....that is possibly the most narrow minded and stupid answer i have ever heard!

Maybe he decided he didn't want to put up with and leave and as there was no ref there was no game
What a wonderful world

Maybe he decided he didn't want to put up with and leave and as there was no ref there was no game
What a wonderful world

i wont let my kids play or ref social basketball any more, i tell them to turn down offers to fill in. They only play district. Some of the most stupid people i have ever seen, i have seen running around in a social basketball game. They think they are experts, but in reality DON'T HAVE A CLUE!...then they abuse the poor ref, who is bored out of his mind because he has had to ref game after game for these retarded monkeys!

In the most social of social comps I play in, at a PCYC, there are no refs. players call their own fouls, none are recorded and there are no freethrows.

Been playing there for 8 years without one issue.

Tripper - nice stereo typing of social bball. Played 20 years of social ball. Saw maybe 2 fights. Played a GF at Pasadena against a team stacked with 8 A grade district players and we went down by 3. These guys all played for different clubs, but were mates and wanted to play together. Was brilliant for us, as you can imagine, the standard was exceptional. If they had all had the same attitude as you portray, we would never have had that opportunity.

Its a give and take process with refs........there should be a level of humility involved. The best refs I've known, were the ones who could admit a mistake. The ones that would give me a hard time for when Id blown a layup were brilliant.

Gavmeister, found your post very interesting.

As a one time social ref, that's always been my defense:

I don't give you shit when you miss a layup so you don't give me shit when I miss a call. We're both trying our best.


Maybe I've been looking at it the wrong way :) but then again maybe not. I reckon some guys would try to take my head off if I started slagging them for missing layups....

my social team can't buy a call no matter where we play, we are also the guys mocking the refs all game, go figure

Mystro, that's a tough one. lol.

But honestly it shouldn't matter. If it worries the ref he should tech you up (until you shut up) - if it doesn't it shouldn't influence any of his/her decisions.

Are you kidding?

It's a job.

I get abused at my job all the time, I don't whinge about it, I get on with it.

You are going to get abused from time to time in a "normal" job: by sub contractors, suppliers, consultants, superiors, and yes even people under you.

I'm not encouraging it, im saying not expecting it is ignorant.

Fact is, calling off a game because on guy loses his cool verbally, is incompetence plain and simple. Throw him out, and raise it to the management level if necessary, but don't ruin it for everyone else just because your ego is bruised.

I think you will find that the referees who deal with missed calls and on court conflict in a dignified manner don't get abused. It's the arrogant ones that cop it, those who talk back at players and engage in childish and smug one-upmanship. Just like how a good sportsman has more leeway on the court if he accidentally throws an errant elbow.

i once got abused for throwing the ball up badly

this was in an under 18 girls div 1 game one of the girls made a joke i was laughing couldnt throw it up straight i was about to blow it and bring it back was god smacked because this coach went off his nut

sometimes abuse isnt necessary just take the bad call or mistake and dont complain

Umpires are allowed get away with murder, I've had refs insult me while playing so I took it to management and nothing was done. Because refs are paid so poorly there hard to get, meaning stadiums will always take the side of there refs even if there refs are in the wrong.

People pay good money to play, not everyone is good enough to play district. I have played district and social since a kid, and lower grades of district are just as bad as social. I played reserves men and umpires were great, professional and approachable off the court in the right manner. I played div 4 men's one season and it was jungle ball, refs were awful and a tech foul was there answer to everything.

Simple fact is refs deserve higher pay, they have a tough job and most refs act in a professional manner. Unfortunately there are some refs who abuse there power, don't care for the players and only have a selfish agenda, problem is this causes more complaints more fights more bad language.

I started playing social at mars this year, almost $20 more a game but worth every cent. Refs are all approachable, easy to talk to, say hi and bye to you off the court. These simple things make it much easier to accept bad calls, I haven't seen anyone thrown out of there since being there.

To sum up refs need a higher pay, an education course on how to deal with criticism correctly, stadiums need to take some responsibility in providing capable referees. I think stadiums are the real crooks here, providing poor quality refs with no training and giving them all the power when can't handle the game. Stadiums don't care about fair games, just profit at the end of the night.

Recruitment of referees for social basketball, is an extremley tough ask! You need referees who are at least 14 years old (with maturity) or at least teenages, or older. Trying to get this age group into the thankless underpaid task of refereeing is almost impossible. Even if referees received more money, I think you would find that it wouldnt help the numbers/quality. Referees have undergone significant pay rises over the last few years, and numbers and quality have declined. You need referees that care about Basketball in general - not the money. By increasing the pay rates it drags in money hungry people who care more about their pocket than the game, and often more about themselves than anything else. Money isnt the solution.

Its the environment that is provided to the referees with the support network behind them. If a stadium is either not supportive or a good environment which is led by the manager / court supervisor this is one contributing factor as to why they leave. Referees also need constant support, and direction to how the games should be called.

The problem at alot of facilities is, that without these 'problem-starting' referees, many games would be solo - which in fact if done properly isnt that bad, and better than two!, however if you rely on solo's for most games, what happens when a regular referees cant ref that night? You are left with no referees on some games, which is unacceptable.

Stadiums need to build their base of junior referees in a SUPPORTIVE and ENJOYABLE environment. Not a mentality that many stadiums carry that treat their refs like shit, demand they referee 4 nights and week for all time slots, then when they pull out abuse them! In fact the district referee system needs to do the same. Build your network of referees - which takes time & dont look for every quick fix under the sun - treat them properly and dont over work them, roster them to suitable games of their ability and provide constant support and feedback.

5 years ago basketball in this state lost alot of very good referees not only at the top level, but also the intermediate level, now there is a backlog of referees at the beginning stage that will take a number of years to be able to referee at social level. It is imperative that these referees are supported, encouraged, not over worked, and actually treated with respect by their bosses, so that coming to referee basketball is actually enjoyable, not a choir.

Abuse is part of the game with referees... if you think it wont happen you are ignornant. Should it happen - well that could be debated for eons. But reality is it does happen, and will continue to happen. Referees need to be taught how to handle conflict, when to respond to players and when to ignore (ie being yelled at or constantly hammered). Court Supervisors need to be more pro-active in terms of watching all the games and sourcing players frustrations through how the game is being called. To understand the frustrations they need to have seen the game, and address the referees as to what they are doing wrong. Or if they get a chance go and talk to the frustrated player and let them vent. Most people just want an ear to burn in this situations. Too many court supervisors go in with their back up, and dont understand the idea of two ears, one mouth.

In short;

Its not about the money, money wont fix it!
Its about the right attitude and support!
Dont over work young referees, otherwise they will burn out, and you lose them all together!
Court Supervisors to be more pro-active!


***endrant***

Good points rant, I agree with most of what you say. I believe refs do deserve a higher pay, many take constant abuse for a woolworths paycheck which does not seem right to me. Stadiums and stadium managers need to do a far better job of handling player complaints and watching over games, coaching there refs and helping them improve. Is see your point on refs not needing more but i feel they are so underpaid that to many good refs are not interested and quitting leaving us high paying players being reffed by teenagers who think the money Is ok. To retain adult umpires, experienced umpires you need to increase pay to make it worht while, I wouldn't ref and take the abuse for $10 less an hour than my normal job where I don't get abused. Too many young inexperienced refs due to this, some of these stadiums need to step up and do something about this or risk losing there comp all together.