Altona from Victoria will not have a great campaign as they sit in a zone for the whole game and this isn't allowed at Nationals... Will be interesting to see how they go.

Funny to see Eltham who have qualified for the Victorian Championship game not have qualified for the Nationals tournament.... Strange!

Sturt girsl finished 4th at classics, and Forestville and Eastern are around the same level.

In the Boys, Sturt are probably the most likely to do well, but Southern could suprise as they have improved.

Altona won the championship last night by 4 pts. Played a great press with a lot of run & gun - dropped into zone a few times but showed that they can easily change their game style when needed. MVP Cody is a freakish player and gets them over the line.

Cant see Mavs U-14 Girls being very competitive at Nationals unless Mr Knight changes his thinking in terms of rotations of his players. Mr Knight is too influenced by parents RE: Court Time & this is at the expense of his team winning. You only have to look at the Winter Grand Final as evidence. Mr Knight believes he is a Guru of coaching but really if you follow his record over the years his record is very average considering the talent he has coached!

Altona will do well at nationals. Just because last night they always dropped back to a zone DOES NOT MEAN THEY CANT PLAY ANY OTHER DEFENCE!Last night, zones were allowed so why not play one if it gets you the win? At nationals they will obviously play a defence that will help them win. #15 from Gators is the one to watch out for too!

Mudlark you are an idiot. You are actually lucky to have him at your club. Perhaps if you guys actually trained more than once a week rather than doing other club events, you may get those closer games. Steve doesn't give a shit about parents and he will play to win at Nationals...Seems you Mavericks people are losing the plot up there with all the in fighting going on at the moment.

It's u14s they should be given reasonable court time!

ITK you're the idiot mate! I'm not even from Mavericks I'm only commentating on my observations of Mr Knight from when he was involved in another club south of Adelaide! Mr Knight is very overated as a Coach & his teams very rarely win the big games when it counts! As for Boston this is a National Championship you must EARN court time & then be able to perform!

Anyone know the results from today's games? How did the SA teams do,

Looks like Southern lost both games. Think that will make it tough to make top 8 from here.

Altona have played Press back to zone all year at U14s and that is the only reason they made it to the VC Grand final. There were another at least 2 sides in Melb who didnt qualify that were clearly better than Altona over the season and they all play man 2 man and in the long run will have kids with better fundamentals and the ability to guard a offensive player. The kid Cody from Altona is a freak but altona will be exposed in a man 2 man defence. The reason Altona won the title was because every other side played man 2 man each and every week and then teams came up against Altona in a zone and didn't adjust.

Sturt have won 3 out of 3 well done, great effort good luck for the next rounds.

Altona - one player can not win a National title. Most 'freak' kids fade out in later years with others overtaking them when their body bulk and speed catch up. Have a look at under 18s and top age 16s now. The kids coming up are much better than those who had physical bulk and skills at under 12s and 14s.

Unfortunately the state junior development programs only focus on those identfied early. It would be a failure to actually send some of those kids on and pick new ones. The current NITP in Victoria has a number of kids who have been going since under 12s yet clearly there are other kids who are better now or show better potenital, but alas they are not noticed! The name Bogut even comes to mind!!!!!!

Victorian teams in top 8 are Geelong, Knox and Melbourne whilst Altona in bottom 8. Proof that zone defence does not develop players and teams can not centre around one player!

You cannot take anything away from Altona as they did win VC this season and obviously have not performed well at Nationals. Everyone has their off days. True one player cannot carry a team but they can lead. They can lead a team to win ONLY if the rest of the team puts in their hard work to help their 'freak' player. #15 from Gators will not fade away simply because he plays big man. There are not many GOOD big men in under 12s, 14s and even 16s! Those big men who shine at a young age are more likely to remain the same only stronger and better than what they first were.

Zone defence is a very smart defence IF PLAYED RIGHT! The zones you see now are just 5 players standing in the key BUT if there was a rule where being idle for say 5 seconds, results in a violation thus causing more movement in the zone defence. There is nothing wrong with the zone defence, only the way coaches teach their players to play zone is the problem.

Playing zone to WIN at U14 level dictates that you want to pack it in, make the other team shoot a contested shot from range. Nothing to do with improving individual defence. Otherwise you would play man to man.

Its no wonder the 2 vic teams that have never played man to man finished outisde of the top 12.

Imagine if these players play zone for the next 4 years. When will they ever learn to contain their own player, defend cuts and screens or even rotate?

There is a reason Basketball Australia and even some clubs never condone zone D to win and it has everything to with player development.

The sooner Victoria gets into lie with all the other states the better.

Hey Temerity,

How about a little bit of grace, and congratulate Altona on winning the Victorian Champs, some of your comments border on the ridiculous. Lets make one thing clear zones are permitted in VC basketball. Why dont you name these sides that were better than Altona, why dont you name the sides that only played a man to man. Just about every VC game is recorded by someone or another I will guarantee you that every side in VC played a zone at one time or another, just as Altona played a Man to Man at times. To suggest that the ONLY reason Altona won VC was because other sides didn't adapt to a zone is a joke, all those sides had played Altona a few times throughout the season,tournaments etc they all have vision of their games, they all know how they play, lets give some credit to a bunch of 12-13 year old kids that play with a fair bit of heart. No one flukes VC titles they are played over 18 weeks plus 3 months of grading. Let them have their time in the Sun.

Or, wait till U16's like BA wants.

Sorry correct me if i'm wrong
I didn't think you were allowed to play zone at u/14 Nationals anyway

You aren't allowed to play zones at U/14 Nationals. The whole problem here is about Altona won VC with their smart us of zone defence and whether it is an appropriate defence to use.

There is a right way and a wrong way to play a zone. A lazy coach teaches their team the wrong way of just standing in the key together and to prevent penetration. While a good coach on the other hand will teach their kids the right way of getting out to those outside shots, playing split line/ help defence and guarding your area in the zone. Teams just cannot complain that they could not win because their opponents played a zone! A GOOD team will have some sort of strategy to break the zone to win games instead of whining about how it prevents their team from penetrating.

Obviously Altona weren't teaching it the right way or they might have done better this week when expected to play man to man?

What you just said has made no sense at all! Altona are at Nationals at the moment and you cannot play zone defence. They are a small team in size after all and they have yet to develop the skills to suit their size. Many small players lose confidence when matched up against much taller opponents and they normally don't know how to defend them which has happened to Altona so you can't take anything away from them. Man to man defence isn't exactly easier than zone defence easier so make sure you know what you are saying before you say it.

Observant,

The reason that Altona has performed so badly at Nationals compared to teams they have beaten throughtou the year is that those other teams can play man to man. That has occured becaue they PRACTICE it each week. Yes it is harder, but that is because it is better.

Your players would be better of going to a club that teaches them the right way to play basketball, so that they dont end up failing when it matters. As individual players, not just as a team.

Winning VC doesn't matter to anybody other than VC teams. Winning Nationals is about all of Australia.

Using Zone as an excuse fro lack of size is piss poor, and is the exact reason Basketball Australia has banned it at U14 level. If you and your club hasn't worked out that it is best for their kids to play man to man in the long run, then the kids should move to another club and get away from short sighted people who are ignorant to the best practices for long term player development.

I see where you are coming from but I guess that then relies on what the coach is teaching is players throughout the year and what the coach is most confident with their players to play. The defence a team plays is not the fault of the players if good or bad defence but of the coach. It is up to the coach to teach their players man to man or zone although I prefer teams to learn both so in tournaments such as VC Championship and Australian Nationals, where there is different defensive rules, teams can perform exceptionally well in both tournaments.

I agree with you that using a zone due to a lack of size is a piss poor excuse but I never said it was in the first place. My point is that the short players from Altona have yet to develop the skill to guard much taller players, again this relies on the coaches' teachings. Look at last years U/14s in VC, Melbourne 2 and Blackburn were teams who had short players BUT used their lack of size to their advantage. Those Blackburn guards gave their much taller matchups problems in games and the two guards in Melbourne 2 caused havoc among those much taller teams. This is most likely because their coaches have taught them how to deal with taller opponents in which Altona has yet to learn. I guess we will just have to wait and see in the future.

What? Southern Districts are in this tournament as well? I thought from the way this thread has headed that Altona must be the only team there.

(Mod: Naming U18 player.)

Team Aggregate (cm) Average (cm)
N Tassie 1760 176.00
Hills 1739.5 173.95
Spartans 2078 173.17
Knox 1729 172.90
Willetton 2073 172.75
Newcastle 1723 172.30
Brisbane Caps 2057 171.42
Bankstown 1709 170.90
NW Tassie 1709 170.90
Townsville 1707 170.70
Perry Lakes 1877 170.64
Canberra 1706 170.60
Logan 1702 170.20
Keilor 1694 169.40
NT North 1692 169.20
Illawarra 1685 168.50
Melbourne 2021 168.42
Sturt 1683 168.30
Geelong 1678 167.80
West Adelaide 1504 167.11
Southern Tigers 1669 166.90
Wanneroo 1653 165.30
Altona 1645 164.50
NT South 1627 162.70

What a disgrace. It is quite obvious some one is extremely upset because they were not the victors in the Vic Championship for 2011 and Altona Gators were. Give these boys and their coach a fair go and accept they were the winners. They may not have done as well as they would have liked but they will learn and grow from the experience at the nationals. they have never professed to be a team of champions but they are certainly a CHAMPION team.

well done Altona Gators your supporters are very proud of you

No naming U18 players please. This also applies to indicating a player by playing number or even saying positive things about them. There is a reason that coaches requested this rule be in place on Hoops.

Of course you won more games than some of the teams ahead of you, that's because after the pool games you went into the BOTTOM half of the draw. It's not possible for the team who finish 12th to win more games than the team who finish 13th. The team who finish 12th spend the second half of the week continuing to battle it out with the top teams, while teams in your position go intoi the 'easy' part of the draw with all the other teams who weren't good enough. You weren't good enough in the pool matches to make it through, plain and simple. Well done on getting it done in the second half of the week though.

Enuf of this shite, anyone got any results?

#902
At a higher level I'd agree with you. However at U14 level a zone is less about any understanding of defensive principles, and more about filling a space. 12 year old kids simply don't have the ability to execute a skip pass well enough, nor do they shoot well enough and consistently enough, to beat a zone. Zones do not have to be that good to be effective at that level. Also they teach the kids nothing about proper defensive principles, which is why they have been banned. If Altona are still hiding behind the smoke and mirrors by say U18, they will get SMASHED. In any case, they got found out at Nationals. End of story.

Why have Altona became representative of a zone defence? As I have stated before ALL Victorian sides throughout the VC played a zone at some stage or other. As suggested, please have this zone vs man debate on another thread. Dont marginalise poor old Altona, and dont make this a Victoria versus the rest, just make your points objectively, don't use 12-13 year olds from Altona as whipping boys, some of the conclusions as to where Altona finished purely because they played a zone in VC, is disrespectful to them and their opponents who beat them.
As I have also stated, this is LEGAL in Victoria, people are making out as if Altona have committed the equivalent of basketball murder.

On another issue, I have heard NSW/QLD teams are allowed to add to there squads from others not competing at the champs. Is this true?

Altona had a phenominal year! Do not take anything away from them since they have done nothing wrong but enjoy the game of basketball. Regardless of what defence they played all year, they still are Victorian champs who represented well at nationals.

Congratulations to Hills Hornets for becoming National Champs against Melbourne!

What a great championships! All teams played very well. Hills were by far the best TEAM!!! Numerous teams had a "super" athlete, but the successful teams played a sound team based game.
What do other coaches etc feel about the "shield" to me it was given the same importance as the Championship? Great concept but why Gold Silver and Bronze and a medal ceremony for teams finishing 13 14 and at the same ceremony as teams finishing 1 2 3 as well as cutting down net at same time as the "CHAMPS". Seems a bit odd to me?????

Don't think Altona realized they couldn't play zone at Nationals until they arrived. They struggled a bit to keep up with man to man. Still a good effort to finish 12th. Hills Hornets were very strong. Some of the draws were a bit easier than others, but that's life. As for Rebounds comment about all Victorian teams playing zone in vc that's crap as many teams aren't allowed to play zone. Qld basketball don't allow their teams to play zone. But I guess it all comes down to the coach and the organization. Don't quite agree with rewarding the lower teams with medals though, but I guess its like having a vc reserve for nationals?
Really great tournament, refs let too many fouls go uncalled which I think shocked some teams. But overall a great performance by everyone involved.

Yes they cut nets down on Crt 1 at same time as Hills. And no I am not a Hills person. As per comment re NSW and Qlds teams adding to squads, I think the only NSW team to do so was Illawarra who added an U12 player to their squad. Hill Bankstown( who ousted Altona) have had same players all year. From what I heard it was the QLD team that added players.

Hey Latrentis,

Please name the 'many' teams that aren't allowed to play zones in VC. As I have said there is plenty of VC vision available, should be easy to tell if I'm talking crap.

(Mod: Just sniping.)

Ok Rebound... U14 Bulleen boys didn't play zone,U14 Knox didn't, U14 Hawthorn didn't this year, don't think U14 Dandenong did either.....but I guess I could go over my footage of all the games just to confirm?? I wasn't able to watch everyone of these teams games during the season so correct me if I'm wrong.
As for QLD and NSW adding players to their team I also heard this might have been the case at Nationals, but its pure speculation and I don't know what Basketball Australia's policy is on this.

Cheers

I only know of 1 team who added players from their qualifying team to the team that competed at nationals, which is Southern Districts.

SA teams a bit disappointing over there. Big fish in a small pond. Sturt perhaps a bit unlucky with 1 loss hurting them but seemed a way off the big boys (lost by 20 to eventual champ Hills). Southern & West in the 20's though, doesn't bode well for the future of this age group?

All the SA teams going well it seems. Eastern have to beat Eltham today to make top 8. Forestville & Sturt through to top 8, play each other today for top spot in their pool.

Hopefully at least one can make their way into the medal rounds!

Good to see our girls side doing so well after the boys did relatively poorly.

Has anyone heard the Forestville vs Sturt result?

Eastern score is up, they lost to Eltham by 1 point to knock them out.

4 Melbourne Teams to fight out the semis , shouldn't be surprised I suppose

TOP 8

Bulleen
Dandenong
Eltham
Melbourne
Forestville
Sturt
North Bears
Maffra