The only surprise for me is Gibson in ahead of Crawford. Thought Crawford's extra size and better 3 pt shooting would have got him the nod over Gibbo, who just does the same thing as Martin IMO.

Spotted Ingles & Newley
any other SA players?

Wortho is an "honorary" South Aussie as I recall. Played for SA against Victoria in the "state-of-origin" match to raise money for Brett Wheeler a few years ago. Anyone know how Wheels is doing?

what times are the games on and dates

Where's Anderson? Jawai?

yeah,crawford looked like he could excel in the international game.

some players just get better on the big stage,crawford was ready to breakout and brown couldn't see it !!

gibbo doesn't even look like he can dominate a game in the nbl.

I agree that Gibson was lucky to get a guernsey over Crawford.

Baynes also now plays for Greek A1 league team Ikaros, not EWE Baskets Oldenburg!

confidence will be way up. Being involved in a boomers camp will always increase someones confidence regardless of how many minutes they play.

Gibbo is a point guard & PC is not - a typical Brett Brown decision. PC's long defensive arms & continued improving perimeter shot should have got him in. Time will tell...

wheres majok?

Am I the only one that has noticed there is not a single shooting guard on this team? In what twisted world is Adam Gibson or Damien Martin an international-calibre talent?

Agree 100% Mick Dundee!

Nice one Brown......NOT!

What SG would you have in that team then?

Delly, Ingles, Mills, Martin, Newley & Barlow are all guys who could spend time at SG. I don't see the problem. What other player would you put in there at SG that would be any better than those guys? I agree that Crawford should probably be in there but apart from that no one really stands out

Can people not see the reasoning.

Gibson and Martin to guard Penny. With Ingles, Newley and Barlow to play the 2 when we go big with 2 of those 3. Or even with a Worthington and Nielsen 3 and 4 combo.

Good balanced team IMHO. But selected to beat NZ, not necessarily to play the next Olympics or Worlds.

Bring in Bogut and Jawai and lose a Baynes/Ogilvy and a Martin/Gibson.

And bring in Kyre Irving for Delly in a perfrect world.

Anons gonna Troll lol

I think that people like anon who says Gibson and Martin are "better than 90% of the NZ team" are just finding it hard to grapple with the possibility that NZ could match it with Australia. You shouldn't confuse the two nation's overall level of basketball with the two senior national teams. I think in overall basketball terms Australia is streets ahead of NZ in talent and depth, but when it comes down to their best 12 versus our best (available) 12 the difference isn't so great.

I think the margin is still there, at least on paper. They've just brought Jarrod Kenny in for Corey Webster - this is a guy who might be the equivalent of Erik Burdon in Australia. Unless he's improved in the last three years, I remember thinking that if he played ABL here in Adelaide, he'd get a token 36ers training call-up at best. I'd take Tom Daly over him. His impact at ABL level might not surpass guys like Todd Matthews and Andrew Webber - am I miles off in saying that?

Penney is clearly a cut above and Vukona and Abercrombie can hold their own, but so many of the rest don't make a Breakers team. Frank is a commentator these days. Tait didn't get an NBL job. Henry is a late Breakers pick-up but wouldn't have been on the radar of any other NBL team.

They punch well above their weight as a team but lining them up you'd almost always pick the Boomer over the Tall Black going through positions. Not taking too much away from them because, like I said, they come together really well, but I don't think it's ridiculous to consider Martin (top-tier NBL guard) out of reach of a guys like Fitchett, Tait, etc.

Rumour has it that Webster has been replaced because of a drug violation. Can't comment on the accuracy of said rumour, but he does have previous history.

I'm actually surprised that he has been replaced at all. IIRC, one of the reasons we lost the 2009 Oceania series was that Worthington rolled his ankle on the Sunday before Game One, after the team had been named and according to FIBA rules, could not be replaced. So we played both games one man short. Why is this not the case now?

The game isnt played on paper Isaac! No question though, bringing in Kenny highlights the lack of depth NZ has, but they have a number of guys who are actually in the rotation that have proven themselves at international level.

Just because NBL clubs have failed to utilise the skills of guys like Tait and Frank doesnt mean they cant play.

Of course, Australia will win this series if they play close to their best, but to do that they have to overcome the different looks that a very smart basketball team will throw at them.

Re Webster, if that rumour is true perhaps Tait will have an NBL job after all.

Sauces

http://tvnz.co.nz/basketball-news/bad-boy-webster-thrown-tall-blacks-4390122

And another

http://lobpasstoabercrombie.com/2011/09/07/corey-webster-dropped-from-tall-blacks/

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/5581091/Tall-Black-Webster-sent-home-from-Australia

WOW! Sounds serious..
Breakers already gave him one lifeline..looks like he hasn't learnt.

and another
http://www.scottrobertsweb.com/Review-Blairs-Jersey-Death-Sauce

Australia will always beat NZ on paper, scoreboard is a diff story tho ;)
Webster out does change things tho as he is capable of knocking down shots. Sounds like the Starting 5 are going to be playing some big minutes.
I personally will not be surprised if NZ go down in game 1

paul, can you please get off the fence :-)

LOLz @DB5. Seems Webster succumbed to the temptations from the powerful Tabasco Lobby ;)

Sure, but we are talking about on paper to some extent. 90% might be a touch strong, but the only one who's clearly a level above Martin is Penney. A few others might be around his mark (Vukona and Abercrombie) but most of the rest play above their paper value when combined as a Tall Blacks team. As for Gibson, it might depend on how many energy drinks he's had.

I don't want to mindlessly disparage Kenny, but Australian's have talked trash about a guy like Barlow before and Kenny is miles and miles off that ability. And is Fitchett that much better? Tait at least had a gig last year and barely got time behind Dillon. Their stocks at PG are way down.

This is definitely Australia's series to lose. Unfortunately for them, NZ play above their potential as often as Australia plays below theirs.

NZ's future big man stocks are looking good with Loe, Adams, Fotu, Pledger etc.

Unfortunately, we don't have that same level of future talent in the PG/SG ranks.
There are alot of good guards in NZ--But very few of them you would say are 'definite future internationals'.

Adams, in particular, seems to be the real deal. I personally hope he fulfills his potential and becomes an NBA superstar. In that event, the likelihood that the Boomers ever encounter him in a Tall Blacks uniform, will be negligible.

MACDUB, yeah, no doubt there. Hopefully Adams is not another Bradshaw. Penney still has a bit of time on his side. Abercrombie and Anthony/Pledger are young.

At least with Tait, you have one of those "chip on their shoulder" types who can step up for his country (even if there are some questionable decisions mixed in). Probably hasn't helped weak guard stocks to have Webster apparently so unable to keep clean.

For NZ, Rob Loe has a huge amount of potential too - an Adams and Low front court of the future could be tough for anyone in 5 years time.

I agree with comments above that Gibson and Martin provide the Boomers with much the same intangibles. But this is precisely why they are both in the team. They will share the role of back-up two guards, with the express purpose of tag-teaming off the bench to guard and slow down Kirk Penney. They are clearly the best two perimeter defenders in the NBL, which is why they've gotten the nod over Crawford.

I understand that this team is picked just for this series, but how do we expect to go in London playing two supremely unathletic, undersized PGs as our 2s? I'm not trying to sh*t on either guy, because they've both achieved a lot given their limited athletic gifts, and both seem like hard workers. But expecting them to be able to guard players who are quicker, stronger, more talented AND six inches taller isn't fair on them. Especially when they both basically bring the same goods to the table as far as the dimensions of their games are concerned.
I'd rather take a flyer on the less-consistent PC just to add another dimension to the team.

I think there are alot of SG's that could put themselves in the running for spots at next years Olympics:

James Harvey: Averaged 14.8ppg and still is a nice shooter even with the injuries last season (Was quite shocked to see that he is 32, thought he was 35 or so). If he goes out and gets 20ppg next season, surely he could put himself in contention. Nice size at 6"5.5, would just have to develop defence.

Peter Crawford: One of the front-runners at this stage, having played for the Boomers alot recently.
Very nice shooter once again..Probably not as consistent as you would want your SG to be though.

Ben Madgen: Deceptively 6"4. Nice shooter, Had some big games last year (19 vs, NZL, 22 vs. MEL, 25 vs. ADL, 19 vs. WLG, 17 vs. WLG, 17 vs. MEL). If he comes out and puts up some numbers, he could be in contention. I think he is more of a SG than what Martin or Delly or Gibbo are.

Chris Goulding: Very nice shooter, both catch and shoot and off the dribble. May need to develop defense though and work on conditioning. 6"4 SG who is a natural SG because he is always looking for his shot. Avg. 12ppg last year.

Nathan Herbert: Very very good defensive player. If he could put up big numbers for the 36ers, he could be in contention (IMHO, I can see him giving just as much as Crawford at both ends of the floor)

Some of those names you might think shouldn't even be in contention for Boomers spots, but at the end of the day, there aren't too many quality SG's (2 man) out there. Newley and Ingles are SF (3 spot) and Barlow is 3/4 man. They don't have the foot speed to contain SG's at International Level.

I think anyone of those SG'a above ^^ could be in contention if they have good NBL Seasons.
Crawford only averaged 13 ppg last season, hence he isn't exactly as offensively potent as Harvey. He is same age as Harvey too.
I think his defense is more developed than someone like Harvey, but if Harvey can get his defense right theres no reason why he shouldn't be in the squad at least.

Foot speed could be a problem I'd imagine?
I suppose we will see how they go tonight against Penney and Abercrombie (who aren't exactly lightening fast)

Newley is less of a defensive liability because he is quicker than Ingles and Barlow.

No way Barlow can defend International 2 Guards..

MACDUB, some good SG examples there. Reckon you're being a bit optimistic suggesting Harvey might learn to play some D at age 32 though!

My first choice SG is still Newley, because of his size, athleticism and ability to knock down the three. The Boomers do need another 'lock-down defender' option at SG though, because Newls hasn't been known as a gun defender in the past.

That is why I thought Crawf should get the nod over Gibbo - backup SG with a bit more size than Gibbo to defend most SGs and who can knock down the open three.

For that reason, I like your inclusion of Herbert on that list. If he has a good upcoming season both defensively and knocking down the three consistently, I would definitely be looking at him ahead of Crawford, who is just the best of what is otherwise a very mediocre NBL SG bunch right now.

Goulding and Madgen still have time to develop, but IMO they are both a little lacking in athleticism to be ideal SGs at international level (based on what I saw of Madgen's few minutes for the Boomers earlier this year and Goulding in general NBL play). Still worth keeping an eye on for the next couple of years to see how they develop though.