btw boys, hit a fucken lay up! take all this time dancing to the ring and throw up something short and ugly?

Obviously a disappointing result, being 21 down in the last, losing by 17 and only scoring 51, but the reality is it's a practice game, we dont have to worry about Spain until next year at the earliest, and playing against that quality opposition in front of that many fans will only help when the real stuff is on in two weeks.

The key to take from this is to see if we improve some areas in the next game.

I think the link LC posted last night will work fine. Its an earlier 7pm tip off though, so gonna be an horrendous 2:30am start if you're in Adelaide! I'm going to try to watch it still.

2.30.... easy! can u confirm that time beantown>?

I'm going by the web page LC posted in the last thread so it should be. It was correct last time and the headline says 7pm Friday night tip off. There is a 7 hrs 30 min time diff from Spain to Adelaide, so should be 2:30am. Am assuming Valencia is on the same timezone as wherever they played this morning.

That's why u need to read the whole thread bud... when I had time later on to check, I posted in the thread that it was 5am Adelaide time.

Yep - use the same legit Spanish link to watch game 2 on: http://www.lasextadeportes.com/inicio

Not a good start. The defensive focus is not the same and the Pau has found his range early. Only good thing for the Boomers is Patty hit a nice three for his first shot.

Spain is just hitting everything right now

Yeah, their confidence is up and now they're draining everything. Would be nice if we had a shooter besides Mills who looks like he might make every shot from long range. All they can do is focus and hope the Spaniards start missing.

Would like to see them try to post up the Spanish guards a bit more with Ingles and Barlow. Unfortunately they were stopped from doing that earlier when Ingles was called for a crap foul while fighting for post position.

Delly and Mills putting on a nice show right now

Yeah, their confidence is up and now they're draining everything. Would be nice if we had a shooter besides Mills who looks like he might make every shot from long range. All they can do is focus and hope the Spaniards start missing.

Would like to see them try to post up the Spanish guards a bit more with Ingles and Barlow. Unfortunately they were stopped from doing that earlier when Ingles was called for a crap foul while fighting for post position.

Delly has made a big diff in the last couple of minutes to get the lead back to ten. I like the way he creates on offence and he has got Mills going now with a couple of good looks.

Nice jam on the fast break by Nielsen. Ogilvy needs to take a leaf out of his book and finish strong, instead of putting up soft shots that get swatted!

Considering what Ibaka did to them yesterday you think he would instead of some weak ass layups with him lurking around

Final quarter coming up. Baynes has started to settle down a bit in recent games and I'm finally starting to believe in him a bit more. Has generally been solid on D and can be relied on to catch the ball round the basket and go up strong. I think he has now earnt the last spot on the roster for the qualifiers.

Its the Serge Ibaka show! He is just making everything right now. Wish Brown would run with Delly and Mills in the backcourt, but he hasn't since they had that little purple patch earlier in the game.

Running both Ingles and Barlow against Spain's quick guards doesn't work as one or the other just gets burned too often.

Wow, one of the worst displays I have ever seen. Spain has been beating everyone, but that is their highest score and biggest winning margin of their preparation.

While we were outmatched talent wise, the biggest difference tonight was a 'team' against a collection of individuals playing with a loose and predictable structure. Our 'one option at a time' offence again broke down against pressure defence, and our defence once again simply couldnt guard a team that hits shots.

And Dellavedova isnt a pg, he simply had no idea how to get an offence running.

Not a confidence building game that's for sure!

Yeah! Still, at the end of the day it doesnt matter, it's all about NZ, but jeez it was hard to watch. I wonder what Damian Martin said or did to be in the doghouse like he is?

so what was the scoreline at the end of the atrocity?

Paul, I agree that was a poor game from the Boomers, particularly in the second half, when it did just become a loose collection of individuals jacking up shots. The discipline they showed in the first game was certainly missing. I wonder if that might have had anything to do with Nielsen? He was very vocal defensively in the first game and looked like he was orchestrating our defence much like Garnett does for the Celtics. But I didn't notice him anywhere near as much last night and I wonder if he just didn't have the same level of energy for this game? It would be tough backing up twice in two days against the Gasol brothers and Ibaka, especially when you are getting a bit older.

I disagree about Dellavedova though. I thought he created well offensively in that little purple patch where he and Mills strung a few baskets together. He was good in the previous game too. I don't think he is a gun PG or anything, but in some ways I think he is more of a PG than Mills.

He was also the only 'small' guard other than Mills to look like he belonged. Brown should never have started both Barlow and Ingles against Spain's pacy backcourt last night - neither could keep up with Navarro, who got it going very early. Delly should have started alongside Mills.

In comparison, Gibson once again looked out of his depth and showed zero ability to get us into our offence. Martin I like a lot at NBL level, but based on seeing him against quality intl opp a few times now, my gut is starting to tell me that he is too slow to cope with the better PGs. I wish Brown had given him some more opps with the starting lineup earlier in games to make a better judgement, but that is the way I have been feeling more recently.

I dont mind Delly, in fact I have really admired him since the U19s in NZ, but he looks lost to me as a pg, St Mary's even run him as a sg. In the very few minutes Martin got he at least got the ball moving. I also didnt mind Gibson at the WCs last year because he didnt try and do too much and got the ball from A to B.

I like the taller line-up on the wings, but if you are going small to match-up on someone like Navarro it should be Martin with Mills, because he has the strength and athleticism to guard SGs. In the small amount of ops Martin has got I think he has looked very capable defensively.

It staggers me that he hasnt been given a chance on the likes of Drgic, Teodisic and Navarro when our defence clearly hasnt been up to defending those players and those teams.

It's such a shame Martin and Crawford werent given the chance to prove themselves on this tour. Looking back at it, what was the purpose of the first 2/3 of the preparation? No one from that group has been given a chance in the main rotation, even on a tour where players where rested on certain nights. Strange.

At the end of the day it is all about beating NZ, so let's hope that happens. But honestly, we should beat NZ, and I have seen nothing to overly inspire confidence that the national program is in safe hands. Like Goorjian before him, it is taking Brown a number of years to figure things out.

Theres no doubt in my mind Delly is better than Gibson and, Offensively, he is better than Martin.

People are saying Martin is a great defensive player. But can he really be an effective defensive stopper against the best SG's/PG's in the world?

I have seen him be a great defensive player at ANBL level, but to be honest I haven't seen that same defensive effectiveness at the International level.

He only averaged 8.6mpg at 2010 WC's and only played 3 minutes against Slovenia, 1 against Serbia and 6 against Argentina.

Let's not forget, he is only 6"2. I don't think he would be able to guard the likes f Dragic (6"5), Milos Teodosic (6"5) or Juan Carlos Navarro (6"4) or Rudy Fernandez (6"6).
I don't think he would be able to contain Penney.
Im not sure if Martin marked up on Penney in the semi-final series against the Breakers, but in that series Penney still averaged 23.3ppg and lit them up for 38 in game 2.

You have to play Martin & give him a chance defensively or you are a fool! I'm with you Paul, we are no shoe in to win any series under the tutelage of Brown at all. He's ego from the NBA may exceed his capabilities! If the Kiwis get us it will be as bad, if not worse as when we lost to them with Smyth as coach...

Much worse, but with Newley back in the team and hopefully continuing to hit threes I dont think it will come to that. If it were in NZ I'd give them a red hot chance, but not with 3 games in Aus. We will def have to play better than last night though.

im sick of people saying this team couldnt be a good offensive team, what crap. theres guys on this team who can shoot and make shots for themselves yet brown stifles them. I think Brown should be gone.. New Zealand should not be a hard team to beat for Australia yet but im very nervous about the series. New Zealand only has 2 players who would even get a look in if they were aussies for the boomers team, yet we have such a huigh chance of losing tot hem... ridiculous... miss utilising the talent they have.

We won't get a chance to see what will happen enxt year if we don't beat NZ!

Of course Vukona and Abercrombie could make the Boomers. They both would give us something we dont have in the present lineup. Vukona would get the spot of 1 of the extra bigs (eg Baynes or Kickert) that we are carrying and fill the role of a specialist stopper and rebounder. Abercrombie could replace one of the multitude of point guards (eg Gibson)that Brown has and give us another wing and would be a better defender than any we have.

Name which Boomers performed better than Vukona and Abercrombie and the WCs last year. I cant think of too many.

I doubt it, although I see the point you are making re structures. But those two have defence, athleticism and heart, pretty handy combination for international basketball.

I didn't get a chance to respond before now Paul, but I think Delly is strong enough now and more importantly, he's quicker and taller than Martin, who looked really slow against all of Spain's small guards.

I'd agree that when we first saw him play for the Boomers, Delly looked a little bit weedy, but one thing I've noticed is that he seems to have bulked up quite a bit in a year.

What really seals the deal for me though, is that Delly seems to have a more reliable mid-range shot, and seems more capable of creating something off the dribble, or getting to the basket than Martin.

Vukona is a better international than Worthington, a better rebounder and defender, and far more professional. Aberecrombie defends and rebounds much better than Ingles or Newley, and doesnt require the ball to be effective. At the international game, I would say Penney is more talented than most players around the world.

Nelwey, Ingles, Worthington

IMO they are just names that haven't proved anything at the International level.

Thats the problem with people these days--they think a certain team is good just because of the 12 players names on the list.

Abercrombie has proved himself at the International level--19 points against Spain at last years WC's (including many thunderous dunks), Avg. 12 and 7 at WC's and made All-Star 5 at recent Stankovic Cup.

Vukona had huge games at the Stankovic Cup (including 16 vs. Russia, and 15 another game not to mention tonnes of rebounds). Also he averaged 10 and 7 at FIBA 2010 WC's.

Ingles and Newley who everyone thinks is much better averaged 10.3ppg and 3rpg and 6 and 5 respectively.

Newley was 2/17 from 3-point land over whole tournament.
Ingles 8/26.

Newley and Ingles are just names..They were barely even that effective at the WC event.
And to be honest, they haven't been that effective at the recent Euro tournament.

So yeah on paper they may be better because one plays for Lietuvos Rytas and the other Barcelona.
But in theory, they haven't done alot and they are extremely inconsistent

Why hasnt Ingles performed consistently in the NBL, or in any league? He is in Europe because he has a passport and potential. Abercrombie would be there too if he had a passport (he had offers after the WCs last year, there were plenty of agents floating around chasing he and Penney, and to a lesser extent Vukona).

When Newley is hitting the three he is a very good player, as he showed in Beijing. If not, he doesnt offer the other things Abercrombie does, even though Brad has improved his all around game. Hopefully his rediscovered stroke is here to stay.

And I apologise for not thinking that because someone plays overseas they are automatically a star.

15 of Ingles 41 games for Granada he didnt make double figures. While he had some big outings, he certainly didnt tear it up and he definitely wasnt consistent.

He was given 'consistent minutes' at Granada and only scored 18 points or more 5 times in 41 games. Potential and a passport.

For the Boomers he should be an impact player off the bench, he is not good enough to control as much of the ball as he does in international basketball.

I think we tend to forget sometimes too that Joe is only 23, his best basketball is a long way in front of him and I fully expect him to be a very good player for the Boomers one day. Right now I think he is someone who adds value but shouldnt be relied upon too much.

"Abercrombie is just a bum with hops"
that bum has an improving jumpshot, great defensive game and was Finals MVP. The bum is also a very approachable nice guy with no sign of an ego.
His defensive game whilst decent already is improving, averaging a few blocks a game in recent Tall Blacks games in Asia and Europe. As Paul said, he doesn't need the ball to be effective but this season he will have more of an opportunity offensively with Penney gone as will Vukona.
Mika Vukona is a beast, can pretty much defend anyone in International Basketball effectively (Stars are always going to shine but he is capable of limiting even the most talented players) and his heart and desire on the court cannot be measured. His game greatly benefited from a season at the Dragons under Gorj and came back to NZ with a much more reliable mid range jumpshot and will even knock down the odd 3 if left open.
Newley, Barlow, Abercrombie and Vukona are all such different players with contrasting styles to try compare them and what they bring to a game is difficult but I like Vukona and Abercrombie's for the reason Paul stated, neither of them need to hold the ball for 10 seconds of the shotclock to influence a game positively.

Saint Mary's essentially run 2 PG's and have for a while. Delly brought the ball up, and initiated the offense almost as often as WCC PotY Mickey McConnell did. Delly/Holt will more than likely be the starting backcourt for the upcoming season, and who gets named the starting PG/SG will be largely irrelevant due to the system they are running.

Strange to hear that you think Delly can't run a team when he finished second amongst all players (not just Australians) at the London Invitational in assists. Delly's not a smooth athlete, but to say that he's a "lost" as a PG is just plain wrong.

For the record I'm a Martin fan as well, and am surprised that he has not been getting more minutes/opportunities. I actually assumed that he must have been injured or carrying an injury at the moment for him to be getting so little time.