having seen some of the teams from here and melb - we do not have the height to match up - most good vic teams have 2-3 5 spot players taller than ours.

guards are about the same

Eastern 16 girls made the finals.
Sturt 14 girls were unlucky to finish 4th with a couple of close losses.
Nowrood and Sturt 18 Girls both were unlucky not to go all the way.

Sturt 16 Boys did well to get 5th.
Sturt and Southern 14 Boys both got top 8. Sturt boys just are undersized, but can play well. Nothing you can do about having pre-pubesent kids competing against fully mature ones. Once 16 and 18s come round things might swing back the other way.

The Vics have a larger population to draw from, and yes height does have some influence, but the play style of Vic teams is different and as far as organization is concerned, SA needs to start pulling in the same direction instead of the current setup

the years we have done well - we have had at least 2 good inside players in a team with some outside players that could finish.

compare teams that have medalled at the classics or u14s previously - they have at had at least 2 players of equal size to their opponents biggest.
Just putting it out there that we do not have these stocks at present - guards are as good as they have ever been - across the board we need to target some tall athletic - u12/14s boys and girls.

girls results were ok - just the boys results were off a bit - we usually make at least a bronze medal game somewhere

U18 Sturt boys only had 3 top age kids but still went well only losing to Knox by 6 and DV by 10, won the rest, should be on the money next year

thanks anon - i did not know that - yes that is good for next year

We dont have the height to match up???

We need to target tall athletic 12-14yo???

We have plenty of them, just go to your local footy ground and netballcourts!
Then ask their parents why they are not playing basketball. Nearly all of them would have tried and been introduced to the SA 5 spot rule where if you are lucky enough to get any court time in the first place- you are to run from end to end up the centre of the court whereyouare not allowed to touch the ball, while watching 4 guards who are allowed to dribble, pass and shoot as often as they like and are then all allowed to compete freely against you for rebounds. Then you have to cop the abuse about being lazy and having no ability mostly from your own club.
Why on earth would any parent want this for their kid.
No wonder they play footy and netball where they ar welcomed with open arms.
If any club in Adelaide genuinely tried to play, involve and develope these kids they would be rewarded tenfold by the time they were 15-16. Just like they are in Melbourne.
I think it will need a generational change for Adelaide to get away from this guard mentality and stop playing 2 and 3 spot players at 4 and 5, just so you can win a couple of cheap u12 and u14 titles.

#475

bingo.

anon #475

Are you insisting that coaches are taking talls aside in 12s/14s to just to big man skills. Maybe in 14s this does occur in individuals training. I don't think I have seen too many coaches that don't teach point guard drills to their entire squad

Having said this, I do agree that all skills need to be taught. Where kids develop is when they get to try out these skills. How many coaches rotate their PG spot to all their team including their talls. I would say not many in the top grades.

It's not all about height ...

In the Under 18 men, North Bears (Sydney) should have won it (twice !) and were way shorter than the Melbourne Tigers. But the Bears had a gun guard who could shoot the lights out and penetrate the paint - #10, sorry don't know his name. The Tigers certainly used their height, but only just got away with it.

In the Under 18 women, Norwood and Sturt were easily had the tallest teams in the tournament. The two grand finalists, Melbourne and Bulleen, barely have one 5 man each ... but they win out through superior skills, especially in offensive execution and then shooting to finish off.

To be fair, it's tough to travel interstate - I watched both Sturt and Norwood play Bulleen, and they both seriously ran out of steam in the second half.

You need a balanced team in height, but able to run the floor and work as a team at both ends. And as others point out, it helps to develop the basic skills young but then you need to keep the kids in the sport.

A Vic observer.

#472 Open and honest comment.Your team will be rewarded in the long run, but more importantly your tall player will stay involved in basketball.

#475 Right on the money, the next step is to play an inside outside game like the Victorians, so the really tall kids remain involved and dont move to more accomodating sports.

Sutherland 14 boys had a monster boy. we reckon he was 6 5. Shame the coach did not know how to use use him. He moved well and it was basically 2 points when he got it under the ring.

Size was the diffference in most grades but with 4 times the population you are always going to have couple of extra kids to pick from.

14 girls finished 4th 5th and 7th which says they should do ok at Nationals. 12 Girls were underized as were the 12 boys. Our kids look so young compared to the victorians.

14 Boys had some monsters and I thought both Southern and Sturt did well.

One thing I did notice was the big drop off in the Sydney teams especially in the girls.

Good weekend and look forward to going again next year.

"And the kids playing footy only cost the parents 40 bucks in fees not 400 per season"

Sure thats why I just paid $160.00

#492 Well wow,to add to what is the biggest story on the planet right now- the MVP of the nba series was Dirk Nowitski the biggest player on the court at 7ft, who cares.

#493 You need to find another club, my footy fee for winter was $50 for early payment, while my basketball fee was some $500 in total for both summer and winter for early payment.

sounds like nothing has changed with how clubs treat their big men. quite a few years ago, my son went to "Australia Camp" at the AIS as a 200cm 16 year old. The coach there told him when he got back to his club he should play as a guard to continue to develop his ball skills. Club coach ignored his request and continued to play him in 5 spot. a couple of years later, he quit and went to football.

forget about basketball too expensive for parents and their kids to play .go to footy better off my kids enjoy their footy because they on the oval than sitting on the bench ,while the coaches son plays and his mates play full game .SA basketball going downhill nowadays lack of BSA support.many years ago sa dominated juniors now many just go for a holiday.

And hope you aren't home helping him with his grammer.

hopscotch 86

Why would someone whos kid gave up basketball "quite a few years ago" be on this site?

Really,'please explain'!

Grammar!

I see 2 points on why Vics are getting better results.

1: Massive numbers to chose from

2: Superior facilities

I agree with "Jack Toft" and BSA need to stop penny pinching and get a new direction in promoting basketball within SA.
Bigger facilities and more kids.
Do you know that SA Country has more registered players(senior/junior) than Metro?

I see 2 points on why Vics are getting better results.

1: Massive numbers to chose from

2: Superior facilities

I agree with "Jack Toft" and BSA need to stop penny pinching and get a new direction in promoting basketball within SA.
Bigger facilities and more kids.
Do you know that SA Country has more registered players(senior/junior) than Metro?

I think the main thing is to move forward. Some of these anchors holding the sport back need to be cut.

With around 400,000 people living in Country SA and about 1,100,000 in Metro, one would expect around 27% of all registrations to be Country and 73% Metro if participation rates were about the same. Obviously, if Country and Metro playing numbers are about the same, then participation rates in Metro are significantly lower.

I would expect that country people are more likely to participate in sport and so some natural bias is expected. The Country leagues are probably more centred around summer due to the footy and netball demands.

If the participation rate is lower in metro, then the aim should be to increase participation to make the elite point of the pyramid better. We should be looking at get more kids into the sport for the benefit of everyone, not putting up barriers to entry.

What, barriers like zoning?

Mimas44, What barriers do you see that prevent kids from entering the sport, and what can be done to grow the sport to double its size?

Barriers to entry:

1/ No one asking them. ie clubs dont have full time JDO's putting kids into basketball.

2/ Poor admin. ie clubs dont have staff to process and maximise possible add ons like uniforms and camps.

3/ No entry level competition for kids to start in. ie getting thrown to the wolves because you only have 1 team in an age group has proven to be a sure fire way to have kids leave the sport.

BSA needs to; H

a/ Have their development officers putting kids into clubs. (not tell the do's that it is not their job to put kids into competiitons)

b/ Help clubs set up/take over domestic comps and give the clubs the money made from these comps. (not do it yourself so you can take all the money)

c/ Each club need to take this money and pay a full time JCD/JDO. (the ones that do are performing better)

d/ As these comps get bigger, BSA and the clubs can go to councils and improved facilities. (starting with those in areas which are full/ ie even if wayville is the best facility, if its full, add 3 more courts)

e/ The competition needs to reward improvement by pro/rel across the board, to expand initially to cater for new teams from clubs, then reigonalise at lower levels to assist in moving to domestic competition. (starting from scratch is proving impossible and not financially rewarding).

f/ Change its mentality from taking down the tall poppy, to making clubs improve their performance, with both a carrot and a stick. (some clubs have seen what is happening in victoria for years and have been trying to follow their approach, and suprisingly are doing well, but BSA are reluctant to let go of the purse strings to take further steps becasue the poor cant get theri sh#t together even thouhg they have had 25 years or more to do so)

Why would sturt set up comps in 3 different areas? Each club should be doing it at their home stadium. And if they dont have one, at a venue near by.

I cant argue something that doesn't make sence.

If Sturt were to set up a domestic comp at St. Clair, surely a majority of those player would end up playing for Woodville? Would Woodville be worse off/better off with 200 new players, surely all 200 wouldn't go play at Sturt?

Same if they set one up at Hillcrest. Surely those players, wouldnt wake up and say, "hey lets go play for Sturt and train and play at Pasadena. Thats easy compared to playing here at Hillcrest."

Its mentalities like yours that keep your clubs down.

I would suggest that if Sturt set up a domestic comp at St. Clair, it would be better for Woddville that it would be for Sturt. Woodville would get more kids, more money and Sturt would get nothing other than people driving across town to prop up Woodville.

Why would that matter?

Again, surely if they had 400 kids runnig around, they all couldn't fit into Sturt teams.

Some will eventually end up at South and Forestville just because they have friends already playing there.

Especially if South and Forestville had full time JDO's going to schools, and comps.

The main point is that more kids would be playng basketball and more better athletes would be playing. And basketball would be better off.

What happens if Sturt do it an no one else does, would that be even worse? I would think so.

what ever happen to vic basketball being hard and strong in D and the umps letting a bit go

My understanding is that Sturt has 75 U10 Players in the BSA and local Unley competition.

Rather than falling over, I would think that its thriving.

Totally disagree with Vic refs being brilliant - my opinion they were terrible this year! So suprised at that as prior to Classics I did hold them in the highest regard! What they called and didn't call changed from qtr to qtr! One minute body was good next it wasn't, no hands then all hands allowed it was just down right confusing! As I said I have always felt they ref the game the way it should but this week has left me wondering what has changed over there!

anon good point, why is BSA competing against the Unley comp? and why is Sturt not supporting the BSA comp? sounds like another Sturt go it alone mentality!!

#547 Never said or indicated it was! Again who cares! and if you were old enough to remember the 70s onwards til now you would find that it has been all shapes and sizes that have been MVPs and that is what makes a succesfull basketball team, team balance and not playing guards in the bigs spot and vice versa.

Not too sure, would seem better to have them all at 1 venue.

My understanding is that BSA do not have a competition, but rather about 30 or so of U8 - U18's doing trainings. And that Sturt have 5 U10 teams in district and another 5 U10 teams at Unley. Im sure BSA would not be happy if the district teams were removed and they made less money. Especially considering the district comp isnt very large.

They also have another 7 or 8 teams I think in U12's/14's and 16's. But they dont have enough teams to start a comp at Pasadena. You really need about 6 teams in an age group I would think. Otherwise teams would play each other each week and that would get boring and they would probably quit.

More importantly I believe that Sturt make more money playing at Unley because BSA are unwilling to profit share, and have much higher costs, including match fees and player registration. At least that is what I have been told.

i watched sa team get no calls when driving to the basket but if a sa player played good D down the court then if the ball was stolen or lost the ump would call a pushing foul :/

if other times after the game are coming up and staying ' man your team should of one' or 'god why did he call that' i think it was a bit soft watching a sa team Vs a vic team cause every 50 50 call went vics way.

i think sa teams are not to far off after seeing some games it was a good classics to watch

Hi Jack,

Obviousy you are busy with you ABA write ups. Just wondering of you have any feedback regarding the above hypothesis?

Your thoughts.

To responders ...

1. Grammer/grammar - yeah, hit the button too soon !! LOL

2. I watched many Bulleen games

I'm not getting in on the refs debate - just don't go there, that is a normal complaint from any competition or tournament - yawn.

My other general observation is - the SA teams just don't quite get enough of that tough competition at the top.

In looking at results from SA District - your "power" teams seem to only get a few competitive games each season and only when they play each other - the rest of the games are pretty one sided results.

In VJBL we have a similar issue across the Championship division - but at least half way through the season the pools are split into top half and bottom half - so for half the season there are no easy games.

There's nothing like tough close games to keep a team improving and able to play at the very top level (which the Classic certainly is) - I suspect that is one of the elements involved here.

Just a VicObserver's observation ...

Anon above

Very easy to play that sort of game when you have multiple players over 6 foot 5, SA under 18 boys teams struggled with the height, having said that tigers kept Melbourne to 7 points in the last quarter and were even at quarter time, dropped off in the second and that cost them the game. People talking up Sturts chances next year with so many first years, tigers have 5 first years in there team!!

Melbourne Tigers 1st, Southern Tigers 13th 3rd out of the SA teams couldnt have been even in contention!!

How many NBL guys playing currently from Dandenong or Melboure?

Try telling that to all those lazy Victorian giants that just cleaned up at the classics again. I guess the small undersized kids who make better players in the bigs position must be no good over there, or come to think of it everywhere else in the world, Europe, America, Sth America, Asia.
Must just be Sth Aussie where the guards are brilliant and the bigs are lazy then.
I dont think so.

OK - my 2 cents worth was put up in another posting on the subject of Classic and as I stated then "not many interstate teams would fair well against the Vics as this years groups that made it are very strong"
Next year may be different but we can all bitch about that when the time comes.

CONGRATULATIONS again to all who participated

overall rating of this years classic - 8.5/10
1.5 deduction for inconsistent reffing

Don't dissagree anon it's just us south aisles don't play against any good 6ft 10 players, the tiger boys matched it in the first quarter but when Melbourne were able to get second looks because of the massive size difference it hurts you. 12 months time maybe some of these first years will be that big then see what happens

Your a nob head above!

Basketball is to a certain extent about talented height, at each stage of the journey to the top. If you are an average size baller, unless you meet every criterion associated with outstanding, you are better directing your talents to a sport, at the elite level, that doesn't require excessive height.

Everyone can play basketball for fun and enjoyment but at the top level athletic height is desirable. The basketball world demands it and you would be hard pressed to find huge number of Mills type success stories.

Junior parents keep referring to first and second years etc , well the sad fact is you never catch up, you play these same kids into the seniors and while boys grow later than girls its a reasonably small percentage that surprise as good coaches spot the key athleticism or traits along the way.

It's inane to argue a tall junior will get a run as guard or a guard a run as a post in anything but training. In most sports your present size determines your position, matched with who else is available.I've never meet a coach who didn't teach boxing out and every game night you see talls who occasionally are forced or advantaged to bring the ball down the court and it's easily recognisable why they don't do it regularly.Parents what are you doing with your gangly tall about their ball skills and how are you helping them? How are they helping themselves?

Ahh the Victorians. Guys it is not their talls so much as it is their size, especially in the girls. Did you run the gauntlet of smoking chimney women that blocked out the sun outside the Classic's stadium? Those, (with respect) wide, heavy jeans busting ladies were the mums of the much feared, much heralded Vic teams. Dainty bodied, attractive girls versus working class eat shit and die girls is not ever going to be a contest. Massive exaggeration but it is body size in juniors, athletic bulk that moves mountains and win titles in juniors.

As they progress, heavier bodies, taller bodies athletic bodies merge to go to the next level. Victoria produce great athletes in every sport and we should be proud of their achievement not jealous they have a bigger population and more to choose from. We should mimic their coaches and develop our skills the best we can. Individual teams will develop from time to time, when the stars align that allow us meagre mortals to knock 'em off at nationals and the like.


Basketball has changes so many things in its journey both on the court and to rules about playing that really haven't worked the way they were intended. To athleticise the sport changes could be made simply to the length of quarters, say 25 minutes a term. It would certainly demand athletes wouldn't it?

Amen platypus, well put.

Just read this threat and a few comments

Kids to develop at different rates and if more effort was put into developing coaches then we would have a better opportunity at developing more players.

Picking kids early for SASI/ITC programs is just a joke. These kids are usually either tall for age or have bigger body bulk. By 16/18s they are usually not to be seen

Finally too many coaches become obsessed with height or specific players. They see one or two players as the key to their team and build their game around them. The vicious circle begins with those two kids growing in confidence and others not being given a chance or indeed not even notice.

The coach that did not notice his big man not getting the ball, probably did not notice what other kids were doing either (unless they were the select few).

give credit to the mavs u16 girls only interstate team to medal (silver)congratulations from an outside vic observer, very professional as well.

I thought the post(#719) said only an "ass" assumes #733 you obviously don't get it.
I read it as a well intentioned post from a supporter of bball, not from someone pretending to be what they are not. I think #733 you may have a small complex, or small something!

FWIW, Dandy-nong, '719 and Pug all same IP. Too busy right now to check whether they posted from the same device.

Having 3 identities-- Does that mean you're Trisexual or Tripolar?