I think its too early to say anything going to happen but i do have to say that since Glen has been at Lions, a lot has happened. I think changing a culture at a club that has been similar for a long time is hard and I hope that Centrals think about what is going to happen to them if he leaves or they get someone else. What I hear is parents are having to much to say(what a surprise) and making the changes hard to do. Keep persisiting Glen.

Damien? Which Damien are we talking about out there?

I hear that Kim Goodenough is looking for a new club these days. perhaps centrals could use him.

Is this Damien guy a largish guy whom formally coach for centrals and presently coaches for Woodville (under 20 women's), LMFAO if he wished he could be a JDO. Please say it isn't so.

Maybe Centrals could hire Bob Hunnerup again and then fire him in another unscrupulous manner again, just to show the basketball community they don't learn lesions the first time.. Get your house in order Centrals before the door closes for the last time and no more chances are awarded to a club running at a financial loss.

How many JDO have there been in the last 4 or 5 years&. 5 or 6 now?

Fair call MD

MD, im not sure Glenn has come out and said what he is doing. He has just said that he is going to talk to the President.

What may come out of it are some changes for the better of the club.

I have not got a clue what is going on but I am assuming neither do you. In terms of talking 5 or 6 years ago the club has an entirely different group of people their now. All your post sounds like is you are threatened and trying to shoot down the club because its certainly not based on anything factual.

PS: In terms of Centrals running at a loss, I dont know a thing about that.

I do know that most clubs are in signficant debt!

Threatened I have nothing to be threatened about, I can only go on hearsay and the history of the club that has always shoot them self in the foot before thinking of any consequence. In the last five years hasn't the JDO's at one stage or another been Bob Hunnerup, Julie Anderson, Nigel Alexander, Glenn Shaw, and one or two more in-between Glen and Julie? So that is 6 in 5 years

Different set of people, same club culture, maybe if Centrals looked at changing the cultural paradigms with in the club itself and then incorporated some KPI (Key performance indicators) and found a way that the could be measured to gain a SCA (sustainable competitive advantage) against other clubs, and a specify time line was introduced they could achieve the aims and objective needed to break even, but after reading some of the stuff I have it still sounds like the same old 'Centrals culture of old, and know new' at it again

Basketball in South Australia is in significant debt and if state government act upon the governor general audit and call in the Powerhouse loan then a few clubs may go under, centrals being on of them. "Good luck to the lions"

A very good friend of mind plays ABA for Centrals so why would I want them to go under and have him lose his ABA opportunity?

You are right about one thing:

" can only go on hearsay and the history of the club"

I think you will find all clubs have established KPIs.

But do Centrals use them, incognito? and if so how effective are they?

I wouldnt have a clue! My point is unless you are involved in it, neither does anyone else.

Incognito

You have been very quite lately. Maybe you are coming to your senses. Has your team been improving lately. Or has your biggest player moved to another club that does not get beat by 50+ every other week.

Until centrals realise that they are playing teams outside of their ability, they will continue to have teams lose players and forfiet. The spiral will continue until another group of people come into the club to turn it around. Then the culture will not allow them to implement any changes, the situation will come to a head again and people will quit. The club will always stay were they are, bring down the standard for other clubs.

Harsh Blame Game.....Harsh....but true

mmmm... I tend to steer away from these discussions as they are a major waste of time.

They are only good when i have time to waste. Have some to waste, so here goes.

1. You may want to speak to the player concerned as you clearly have no idea whatsoever as to why he left.

2. The team was not losing by 50+ every week. Infact in half the games were either won, or lost by less than 10 pts.

In terms of my team improving or not. Its 4 games in and I will give you a better assesment at the end of season. Maybe then I will / wont have come to my senses.

Where did it say i was going to be the next jdo at centrals tiger if u check dickhead they already have one
Centrals wouldn't consider me anyway and i wouldn't waste there time because:
1) i havent coached at div 1 level so i'm still unknown
2) they need some one that has a profile to open doors in the future
3) don't have the patience to put up with parents who think that their opinon counts
4) because i have anger issues
and thats of the top of my head,
So tiger if your going to start a tread on here at least plug the cord in and use your brain and talk about intresting things not crap so your name gets on the leader board

My my, there's some unhappy chaps in Adelaide. Me? Just filling time, waiting for the Pope's funeral to be off the TV so we can get on with the footy.

Speaking of unhappy chaps, when are Woodville and Norwood's juniors beating each other to death again?

damien your going to be king for long. watch out for the white guy

stuffed that message up

Incognito,

looking at sporting pulse the loses have been by 28, 19 and something about 80. Plus a win to the woodies. So is that improvment?

It doesn't matter what the reason. What matters is that for the last 30 plus years it has happened and that for the next 30 plus years it will continue to happen. Nothing has or will change. And again it is the better kids that are held back by having to play against sub-standard competition.

I still remember you shaving lines in kids hair cuts at Easter 15 years ago. It got me suspended hahaha.

I know the team you are talking about.

You can only go on those facts and you are correct on that point. At this stage = no improvement in scorelines in 4 out of the first 5 games and players have moved on as was predicted by the Big A.

Great to see you monitoring the team so closely.

The points in #28806 were not very accurate however.

Do you think the player that did transfer clubs would ever have had the opportunity to play district if Centrals did not have a team? Dont answer that because you dont know the answer but I think I do.

Do you think your current Div 2 side would give your Div 1 side better competition than they currently get in most weeks?

Also, you need to keep your position (that of a respected, knowledgable leader on these issues) / comments (that of someone that is erratic - false points, angry and someone showing a fair bit of partianship for and against certain clubs) in perspective. Be careful not to bag a club and its direction, based on the past 30 years, when new people are there, without first knowing what their direction is. I have had some discussions with them and know they do have a plan and it makes good sense. The comments you make are quite dissapointing and lead me to wonder if players trying to crack the next level do get a fair go regardless of what club they are from????

I really think youre better off focussing on pro/rel what that brings (a lot) rather than the negative aspects of what we have now or whether the team in question has / has not improved.

Yes they would seeing as they beat Woodville's div 1 side by 20+ points at Easter. I guarentee that they would give the top div 1 teams a better game!

"Just me"&assuming it is Damien responding to some criticism


1) Even if the appropriate people knew you, you wouldn't get the job because you're an idiot who know nothing about basketball, possibly explaining why you have never coached division one before and never likely to.

2) They need a strategic plan (a vision) and stick to it. A virtual unknown who has all the credentials will be able to do a job as long as they can see a vision and have the ability to talk the right people into believing in them.

3) Everyone option is valued, it is how you deal with the parents that are voicing a differing opinion from your is what they would be looking for

4) Anger issues, gain some experience and ability and anger turns into passion and skills analysis two things you don't have

As a parent who thinks my opinion counts (because I pay my fees on time, fork out for the fundraisers and drive my kid all over town), it seems that Centrals strategy is to improve the position of its mens and womens sides. This in turn is supposed to make all the kids in the northern suburbs want to play basketball for a winning club and bring back kids who are geographically placed to play for Centrals but choose to play for a junior team that wins some games. The trouble is now Centrals have no under 10's side, 1 under 12 boys side playing div1 with kids who have never played before, 2 under 12 girls sides who are struggling. It looks as if after this season the under 12 boys side will lose some players as they go up an age group and there are no players to fill their places. So we will probably lose under 12 boys side too. The rot is in place and if there is no JDO (Glenn Shaw will tell you he is not a JDO, he is a BPO) to facilitate the recruiting eventually there will be no under 14's either. When that happens the club will have no future and may as well shut its doors.

(Mod: This post is not available.)

Forbes 500
At the AGM we get to see a lot of people nominated for positions that the average person doesn't want. Generally I believe they do a pretty good job. The only paid position in the club is the JDO/BPO and we dont get to vote for him/her. The issue here is that technically we are paying for a JDO when we dont have one.

Lions Parent,

No you don't get to vote for the JDO/BPO but you do get to vote for the people who put this person in position. If you are concerned then get together a group of people. Have them voted onto the committee and appoint somebody to this role.

PS What is a BPO

Basketball Projects Officer

Exactly,

You get to appoint the management team that appoint this person (a JDO/ BPO) like ranter said if your not happy with the job the committee are doing, why don't you put your hand up and try and find the appropriate person that can lead Centrals to the "promise land".

And if this person is a 'paid' employee, then don't you think he would have the qualifications to do the job and know what he is doing? Give him longer than 6 months (qualifier, I have no knowledge of how long he (G Shaw) has been in the job) to try and turn the club around. The time line for this paradigm change will take longer than one season or even one year, 3 years minimum before the changes will start to be noticed.

Juniors make a club not the senior sides, build from the ground up and have a solid foundations rather then rely on the top to give the club success.

BPO would be a 'Basketball Promotional Officer'

Forbes 500,

Everyone is willing to give Glenn Shaw a go, but he is not focusing on the right things. He wanted all complaints to come directly to him, so this is what the parents did. But that got too much for him. So now instead of talking to parents, he ignores them or is arrogant.

It would seem to me that a BPO & JDO should be two seperate jobs within a club. The JDO dealing with issues inside the club, like the basketball program etc. While the BPO i would of thought would be promoting the club to the local community, setting up Aussie Hoops, domestic comp etc.

I guess the quesion is did Glenn do either of these? Or didn't have he have a decent job description that should of outlined his roles at centrals?

To my knowledge Glenn was employed as a JDO, but he decided to change his job description to BPO. He hasn't done any promoting of the club in the local community in either role.

Mr. Black,

In an ideal world the two jobs would be seperate.

But what clubs could afford to pay both. Until each club as a large domestic competition they will need to be one and the same. Because without the junior program, clubs cant survive. A person in the role needs to have the ability to do both.

Overwhelming? Please? Lets give Glenn a cup of tea and a little lay down. He has been employed to do a job!

Now lets not all get out of hand here. I'm sure Glenn does a great job as a BPO and that keeps him busy along with coaching the womens team and a U18 girls team. I dont care how arrogant he is, as long as the job gets done. My problem is that Centrals needs a JDO with emphasis on junior development including recruiting.

Most other clubs have part time people in the postition of JDO. They seem to get the job done. Although not always to the level most would want.

The question here is whether the Lions can afford to pay Glenn to do BPO and somebody else to do the JDO. Really the U/18's and Senior job is about 3 nights per week and Saturday. If we has a reserves coach then 2 nights and Saturday.

Comps and JDO run hand in hand. Again here comes the question of seniors verses juniors. Does the club priorities juniors (who's fee's pay for the senior program) ahead of seniors or vice-versa. North's men have not won a championship since 1983, and North have had the best (or close to it) junior boys program over the last 10 years.

Okay here is the situation, I am employed by centrals to work 12 hours a week. The club has given me the mandate to get our coaches in order and work on court development.

The club also wants me to assess all players and coaches, preserve team harmony through conflict resolution, develop a mentor system from senior to junior players, conduct regular coaches meetings, produce a regular coaching newsletter, run school clinics and report to management monthly.

I recognise the need for club promotion so I went to my junior committee and asked for some help with getting out to social competitions to bring players into district basketball, I don't have the time to get out to these comps with my other 2 jobs (coaching ABA and working at the stadium doing non centrals programs).

More often than not parents that have complaints don't come to me so I do all that I can when they do. The club wants me on the court during trainings so I don't often have the capacity to meet with parents, it is definitely not arrogance (I don't believe that I am an arrogant person).

I want to stay at Centrals I love working with the Kids I enjoy the club and I like the job and I work my butt off, truth be known I probably work 30 hours/week for the club and an extra 30 hours/week for the ABA Women of that 60 hours I Get paid for 12-15 hours.

On another note I was hired as the BPO as were the 2 before me I made no changes to the position that is how it was put in the contract I signed from the club. The role description is available in the most recent newsletter released by the club this past weekend. I am not naive enough to think that everyone will be happy with the work I have done I wouldn't want everyone to be, that would reflect no change to a society that drastically needs it.

I am taking the same approach to the club as I am to the Women's ABA program, we will not make any major visible changes in the first 2 years, this is a process and we need to work through the problems, eliminate the cancers in the group and move forward from there. If the club is expecting drastic changes immediately then they have hired the wrong person and I doubt that the right person is out there. If the club will give me the necessary support and help I will keep plugging away working my 30 hours and develop a working basketball club.

The choice is now out of my hands

Glenn

Thanks for the details Glenn.
Do you think the club will survive the 2 years it will take to see results?
Perhaps the club has give you the wrong mandate.
What exactly is court development?

To Lions Parent and Lions Parent Too
Glenn's phone number is 85220650 have the guts to call him and discuss your concerns with him instead of using this forum under an alais.

Nice one Allan. I'm sure Glenn would appreciatte having his phone number on the web.

Glenn, if someone calls by the name of Sly Ding Doh or Ivana Tinkle, its a prank call.

Glen has put his number (both work and mobile) up on this forum a number of times for people to call and discuss issues that they may have with him so i dont think he is really going to care if Allan does it!

The problem that I see with centrals isn't so much their JDO, but their coaching panel.

Glenn may have some real good ideas but is unable to implement them because of the coaches he has at his disposal.

One person cannot coach every single team, clubs with strong coaching line-ups are generally the ones who are successful.

If a JDO is able to bounce ideas around with knowledgable people than the more informed decisions he can make.

Mr Black, please ellaborate... Are you talking about the boys side, girls side or both???

What are your concerns with "the coaching" panel???

Probably both incognito.

I defiently don't know enough to individually talk about centrals coaches, but on a whole I don't think the quality of coaching is all that great.

Let me just ask one question! Are all your div 1 coaches good enough to coach a division 1 team at another club?

Mr Black. I think you honestly put your statement in perspective in your first line. "don't know enough to individually talk about centrals "

In terms of your 2nd point, having appointed coaches for another club in the past, the answer on the boys side would be, in many cases, Yes.

Attention: Glen Shaw,

E Mail address wanted.


Do you have an email address I can forward my coaching résumé to, as I believe it is about time I got back into coaching again, I am willing to consider any role or any age group (under 14 and above, if any vacancies exist)

I have coached Division one and Division Two previously and would like to talk about the possibility of coaching basketball again; I have about 10 years of coaching experience and have qualifications.

I look forward to talking to you. Will identify myself in the email that I hope it will stay confidential

If anyone can pass on his E-mail address it would be appreciated

Allan Mullins.
You are assuming I have not had discussions with Glenn.
I still dont know what "Court Development" is. Sounds like some non-descript term like "BPO" or "Dynamic Thrust Modulator".

Confidentiality, some major life decisions have to be made before I will identify my self and it is something someone tried to create when they are trying remain anonymous, at least for now.

Not tyring to hide anything but would like to stay anonymous for now.


I am sure Glenn would keep it but this is a very public forum with some prying eyes who just love to gossip.

Sorry I didn't put enough thought into that first statement, you found me out incognito!

These are my own personal thoughts & opinions. Centrals should have the ability to bring alot more kids into that club, but they don't.

I disagree that alot of your div1 boys coaches would get a div1 gig at other clubs, but hey this is a website that allows you to express your opinions. You don't agree with what I have got to say, that is your opinion and you are allowed to have it.

Most people would agree that for a first time in a very long time that Glenn is someone who is passionate about Centrals. My opinion is that he is unable to make any significant improvement because of some of the coaches that are around him. Every club wants to improve it's coaching stocks, as I said it is just my belief that centrals need it more than most.

Mr Black.
Coaches are not the problem (well, not the main problem anyway).
The problem is we are quickly running out of kids to coach.

Is it a smart move for Centrals to bring in 4 of 5 starters to their mens team to create some interest and excitement out there? Surely that is a reasonable tactic? From all reports, they're getting some enthusiasm out there at Starplex.

The concept of paying up for external talent in the ABL isn't ideal, but for a club really needing to build up the junior program, I think it's worth trying in the Lions' case.

That said, it may bring in juniors, but not necessarily more experienced coaches.

Mr Black is spot on, a club is only as successful as its foundations and every single club foundations is it's junior program. Players and coaches improve because there is someone underneath them pushing them up and lifting the bar for improvement from within. Iam sure the centrals coaches want to improve but have they that drive for continual improvement and Different lengths for this improvement, like SAIS training and develop new training habits and installing a skill gap analysis and continual testing so it can be measured against something that will allow show a level of improvement as well as the need for continual improvement for both player and coach.

Yes Mr Black, we are all entitled to an opinion. Its just that my opinion is based on almost 20 years, pretty much all of it at Div 1 level, of playing and / or coaching district basketball.

I know many of the coaches, their backgrounds and where they come from from other clubs and respect them all, but the current lineup of Div 1 Centrals coaches compares pretty well on the boys side (i cant comment on girls as I dont know enough about that).

Hear! Hear! anonymous

I get the point but they now have a salary cap!

It is such a thin line, North Adelaide, Forestville, Sturt and possibly South Adelaide (apologize if missed a worthy club) who have a plethora of players can afford to go after that exclusive title to help increase the clubs profile, but a club like centrals have to decide what is best suited financially for them, try and gain some exposure buy having a successful senior men's program and hopefully it will attract some kids from the local area or try and have a strategy where they can run some 'Aussie hoops' programs to try and get 10-12 new kids into the club and attracting 10-12 new kids (under 10's) in one off season is a Huge achievement.

Personally what I would do would be to get 'Jye Watson' and have him take one 'Aussie hoops' program at a Northern primary school for one afternoon a week and hopefully 1 or 2, 8 or 9 year old kids come out and play because they want to be associated with Jye and the image of the club he can sell to kids will do 100 times more good than a ABA premiership, in the long run. Of course no one will turn down the premiership but centrals need more than that.

Get the kids involved and allow them to have some ownership of the product and then over time the club will develop a strong 'brand loyalty' with the consumer, get them young and make them love the product (the club Centrals, not basketball in general)

anon#29554 -- fair enough and thanks for the information. I like New Jack City's suggestion -- something new for the men's program, plus some direct interaction with young, potential players. Sounds like a good middle ground. Maybe there should be a collaborative document produced by interested parties from all clubs, that produces a set of guidelines for clubs to follow to gradually build stability? Even if it was a top ten things every club should be doing, etc.

Sport is the same as business and Centrals have to run the club, as a business would, determine what the clubs SCA (Sustainable Competitive Advantage) for all the layman's a SCA is something they (Centrals) can do better or offer to the consumer (players and parents) in the market place (this instance basketball but not necessarily on court, if that makes sense) that their competitors (Every other sport North of Enfield)

If I was in charge of Centrals I would try and negotiate a sponsorship deal with trinity College get a few (say 3 every year) scholarships to Trinity College and use that as the clubs of SCA to attract state calibre players, can North Adelaide or West Adelaide offer a full scholarship to a privet school, possibly they could but I not sure of these facts.

And to success in business you have to find a way of beating your competition or you will die hence that's why sport is business and business is sport.

new jack the problem is they have such a large area to work in and not 1 aussie hoops program any where because the jdo/bpo saying "i dont have time " that is why theres no u/10 2, u/12 girls,1 u/12 boys and thats the future unless something is done.