I agree with this post especially our junior elite athletes we are seeing more and more serious injuries to elite junior basketballers. Players needing knee reconstructions at the ages or 15-16. Yet if these players arent pushing themselves to prove they are good enough they dont get the opportunities. In these cases I dont even blame the parents as these players want the chance to make state and play at the highest level, I think this needs to be put back on the coaches especially at state level and whats in the best interest of these developing teenagers to remain in the sport playing at the highest level as long as they can.
Most elite teenager basketballers have junior club commitments (2 trainings & Game), ABA if they are good enough (possibly 2 trainings), SASI & State Commitments if they are training for competition (Im unsure whether I have all the sessions correct). Yet these children are expected to attend all these sessions weekly and give 100%.
Come on Guys surely its not all about winning....

Without a doubt. From a Victorian perspective, an elite young athlete would likely be involved in:
- Junior club commitments (2 trainings and 1/2 games, depending on whether their club makes it a requirement that they play in a domestic league)
- ITC commitments (2 trainings a week)
- State commitments (2 trainings and the occasional practice game)
- BigV/SEAbl commitments (usually in their clubs respective Youth League/D-League team, 2 trainings per week and 1 game)
- Attending a 'basketball' high school, which is becoming the norm for most young athletes due to the prospect of gaining a scholarship to an excellent school (usually at least one training 'lesson' per day, be it on court or in the weight room, one game per weekend).

So when they are expected to attend all of these training sessions, which can they be reasonably allowed to miss in order to manage their work loads? Not Club commitments, because VC is the predominant competition in the State for their age group. Not ITC commitments, because if you get a bad rep for not attending ITC then you can't expect the BV coaches to be putting your name forward come National Camps and State teams. Not State team commitments, for obvious reasons. Not basketball commitments, because as a part of a scholarship you are expected to attend all classes and complete all trainings (In fact, often those who have scholarships at 'basketball' schools are required to participate in other sports when it is not the basketball season, including rowing, athletics, swimming etc.)

So the only thing that a player can reasonably be expected to give up is their BigV/SEAbl commitments. Even if they do so, they are still taking on an excessively huge workload. Something's gotto give, otherwise we'll continue to see a trend of young people being crippled by knee and stress fracture injuries.

I don't agree. State and ABL commitments do not overlap now so it's much better now than when they did, especially for girls.

Any Under 18 State player not doing ABL has a relatively easy workload for the rest of the year, after a heavy workload in term 1.

Under 18 players doing ABL need to be managed, but I think you will find most clubs do a good job at that these days. If it's not for you or your child, wait a year, no one is forcing you to play senior ball.

The more elite the athlete wants to be, the more work they need to do. They are not just competing against players here and interstate but against the 16 year old in Lithuania or Serbia who makes many thousands of shots a week or that super athlete in the USA.

What are the chances the OP and I do agree are the same person? I'm guessing pretty high.

billo, normally I'd be suspicious and it could still be, but over an hour between the two posts, different IPs and no post trail suggesting it might've been from the same computer. Benefit of the doubt given here!

I'm somewhat torn on this one - my overall feeling is yes absolutely. I worked out that last year my daughter was part of 13 different basketball programs (some vertically integrated, others not) but all competing with for her commitment to some extent.

As others have pointed out this is not an unusual situation.

What makes it more challenging is that these kids are, by definition, talented and competitive and so it is often more than one sport which is also competing for their time. And at the end of the day, very few coaches are willing to forego their face time with these kids.

So yes, I think they are overtrained.

Mitigating my conviction is the high rate of injury at the elite level in most sports - and I'd point in particular to the AIS girls program, an environment in which, in theory at least, they should be able to control all aspects of the athlete's workload as they serving only one (two at the most) master. So I vascillate between 'gee the AIS have to get it right and look after these kids' and 'well perhaps pushing the envelope of each individual body is simply a part of the process for forging an elite athlete'.

A long way of saying maybe!

Knee injuries in basketball seem more frequent as is burnout and they seem to be happening younger. Whether the stressors of over-training, playing with niggles and the weight of unspoken but very real expectations of the basketball hierarchy in this state are the causes is debatable but that they contribute is undeniable.

That said, I don't believe for one minute that Neil Gliddon would expect sick kids to turn up or train through exhaustion or when injured but the SASI players who attend believe that it is his position and I don't think there is much done to change the perception.

Some of the basketball coaches I know thrash their kids on the court at trainings at least one of their two nights and punishments for the whole team are the norm. Many coaches make kids run endless laps, have too few drink breaks and seem to have no idea what damage they are doing. Take a look at some of the coaches and how they run sessions especially the heavily overweight coaches who seem to delight in giving the kids punishments and run them to death. Perhaps if your making kids run all night it hides your inability to actually teach them something.

Perhaps coaches should be required to have some understanding of how to teach, basic physiology, first aid and more than a generous sprinkling of coaching ability before they are let anywhere near kids. The worry is that more than ever, mums and dads are coaching in many clubs with nothing more than good intentions. The role models they see around them for inspiration will not always ensure your child is in the right hands.

Ceres 34, Can you see what you are saying creates the very pressure that they feel.

'The more elite the athlete wants to be, the more work they need to do. They are not just competing against players here and interstate but against the 16 year old in Lithuania or Serbia who makes many thousands of shots a week or that super athlete in the USA.'
'Any Under 18 State player not doing ABL has a relatively easy workload for the rest of the year, after a heavy workload in term 1.'

A State player not playing ABL still trains twice a week except when they have a mid week state game, still attends SASI, still plays Friday night. So that easy work load you talk about consists of 2 hours plus travel either side Saturday, 2 hours plus travel either side Sunday. 2 hours plus travel on Friday night and being 18's it could be Mt barker, the deep south or Starplex and games at 9.30 pm start or 9.45 pm.
At least on training session club for 90 minutes plus travel to and from and a SASI training for 90 minutes plus travel time.
So Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday plus one or if your really unlucky 2 club nights doesn't add up to me to an easy workload. depending on where you live at least half an hour each side of training as well. High intensity trainings/games over 4 continuous days plus a club is a recipe for burnout and injury.
Thank God they are not in year 12, oh dear sorry most are aren't they.

lbp, I agree with you. I am saying that they have a very high work load but it's only for term 1 and it is very manageable for terms 2,3 and 4. By world standards it would be considered light.

As far as pressure goes, we are talking elite and prospective elite athletes so if they don't like pressure, they will not be in the sport at an elite level for much longer.

Ceres 34, Do you think that the pressure might be better served coming a bit later because for those young stars who are deservedly lucky enough to win selection for state U16's in their first year their work load over the next four years is cumulative and I believe unnecessarily so.
I'm saying that too many are not in the sport at an elite level later because too high a number who escape injury are burnt out and jaded by the work load of their past experiences.
Yes those rewarded with AIS/college stay longer (some) but there is a problem and I think it is becoming worse.

I think you're probably right. Unfortunately we don't have that luxury. We have a small population and State/National teams need to be picked. To be competitive we have to bite off more than we can chew and chew like hell. That is the Australian way and why we are competitive in the 2nd most popular sport on the planet. Unfortunately this means casualties. We don't have the luxury to take it more slowly as the Euros do, or the depth of sheer athletism that they have in the USA.

It all comes down to recovery.
Stretching, Applying Ice on Knees etc.(even if they are not sore, it helps reduce any inflammation), Nutrition, Getting adequate sleep etc.

If you do these things THOROUGHLY, then you will be able to train twice a day for 6-7 days of the week.

The AIS athletes are able to train alot because they get extra professional services to assist in their recovery--regular use of physio, massaging anytime and day of the week, on-site doctors, sport scientists and nutritionists. They also have the time to do their recovery sessions as well as the resources obviously.

The reason why US high school athletes are able to stay healthy and in condition is because they are usually only committed to one team - their high school. AAU generally takes place in Summer.
When I was in the USA at HS, we shot in the morning, lifted at lunch and then team training at afternoon/night. But if one of us was tired so was the rest of us, because we all had trained similar hours at a similar intensity.

Problem in Aus is that one player can play for 2-3 teams, and so he has a myriad of team trainings and games to balance--and none of his coaches are going to know exactly how many trainings he has a week and none are going to be too impressed to see one of their players become lazy/drop in work ethic because of fatigue from another team's training sessions.

I agree totally with MACDUB
My son trains 2-3 times a day 6-7 days a week
Has done since under 12s (now Bottom age U18s)
Still keeps up with Schoolwork as well
He has been to America twice - 1st trip came back with Tourny 1st place trophy - 2nd trip came back with a High School scholarship and is going over next year (to stay)
Others that went with him who only trained a few times a week were not in the same league according to U.S. coaches
In Australia we kept all his coaches updated of his trainings so on odd occasions he didnt have to join in on punishments but he still opted to do the majority of them
He believes without his workload he wouldnt be at the elite level and I agree
In my opinion the injuries to players around him are due to them NOT training enough and no decent recovery sessions

p.s. and poor coach/player relations

Macdub, No 14 -17 year old could ever expect to train the hours you suggest under any circumstances and not get injuries. While your points about different teams and coaches and the knowledge base etc are legitimate, the AIS has a less than flattering record on injuries and management plus they have a head set that more is better.
There are few if any studies on the relative fitness of US and Australian athletes across the ages of 14 to 17 years of age and to the best of my knowledge none on basketballers conducted on these age groups other than anecdotal inferences made by participants in both countries.

Athletes differ vastly especially in basketball where the variations of player sizes and aerobic needs vary. An above poster mentioned Liz Cambage, Andrew Bogut, Lauren Jackson, Patrick Mills and this best illustrates that point. Jackson and Cambage as bigs have vastly different athletic abilities, Bogut is no sprinter and doesn't possess the pace and agility of superior bigs while mills built upon natural athletic ability and has a huge motor.

Over training young athletes, placing undue strain on developing muscles and bones is a continued recipe for developing chronic injury and risking acute injuries such as ACl's. I'm unsure what qualifications a SASI coach has in terms of understanding physiology, nutrution, injury prevention and how closely if at all they view athlete's logs of their weekly activities (or if they have them ).I'm also unsure if level 1 or 2 basketball coaches have any basic understanding of the needs of young bodies built into their courses about preparing athletes.

I do know that very little is done to prevent injuries in the basketball world, pressure is placed on players to play when they have minor injuries and over training and over tournamenting and over playing is the norm which suggests little prevention of injury stuff is done for coaches or they disregard it.

littlebopeep,
I was referring to 17/18 year olds.. not 14 y.o.(Huge difference)

Furthermore, if an "elite" 17/18 year old can't handle 2 workouts a day for 6 days, then he isn't putting in the necessary work to become a better player..Its just a lifting/shooting session in the morning and team training at night.

IMO, thats not a ridicolously heavy schedule. In the USA, thats a normal schedule, and they dont experience as many major injuries as Aus or NZ.

I find it funny that you mention injuries and the AIS..by my account they receive barely any MAJOR injuries..Maybe sprained ankles, but certainly no ACL's or MCL's. Look at the current crop--Igor and Drmic off to Boise St, Aldridge off to Butler, Wroe off to Hartford, Creek with the 36ers. Look at the type of athletes they have become..Creek in particular was able to come out of the AIS and adjust immediately to a 28 game season plus the travel.

To be completely honest, overtraining doesn't cause necessarily cause injuries!
Patella Tendonitis etc is usually a result of a lack of quad, VMO, or calf strength.
Overtraining may make you 'stale' e.g. go through a real rough patch in terms of your shooting drops, your footwork is out of sync and your decision making is hindered.
But at the end of the day, you can do your ACL/MCL etc at any training, whether it be day 1 of camp or day 6 of camp.