nominations have not even closed - usually the week before it is up on the website

Registrations aren't due till Monday, so I dont think they would be done yet, my guess is you wont see them till after Norwood Carnival and 1 week before the Staet Champs weekend if you are lucky! But you can write your weekend off if that helps any.

i want to know what regional associations are entering, what grades and what uniforms they will wear

i think state girls will be close

u12 - eagles, sturt, west

u14 - eagles, sturt, mavs

u16 - mavs, sturt, west

u18 - norwood, mavs, sturt

i think it is 5points for 1st, 3points for 2nd and point for 3rd y/n?

so eagles 10
sturt 10
mavs 9

mavs still the smoky for the title

It astounds me that an annual event is always such a last minute rush. 28 days now until the start of the tournament.

BSA should set this up correctly as the highlight of the junior calendar in SA. Right now most clubs treat it like just another carnival.

If Norwood can find a sponsor for every age group why can't BSA find one sponsor?

Get a sponsor of the competition, put their branding in every stadium, on every staff member, on every referee shirt. Huge exposure. Less cost to families. More money for referees or referee evaluators etc.

State Championships website is just embarassing. Why isn't there any real information? Previous winners from 2009 and 2010 aren't even listed. No one bothered to update the site since 2009?

Why do BSA District clubs even have to nominate? Grades are State and Reserve. Why aren't District club's number 1 and number 2 teams in each age group just nominated automatically?

What happened to the MVP and All-Star five awards that used to be part of this event?

Why is there no more news about the regions? How it affects actual clubs teams?

Some families will have 2, 3 or even 4 children playing/coaching/refereeing. How can they organise their weekend when schedules are so late? What about referee information? When can referees expect rosters when the draw is done so late? Have referees even been spoken to yet?

State Champs should be the showcase of Junior Basketball in this state. Unfortunately outside of two or three clubs it's just another forced tournament and BSA have done nothing to make it the event it should be.

pallas your last comment is a somewhat dampener on earlier what are some good discussion points.

I would like to know about the region teams and sponsorship is an excellent idea.

How so?

I think those 2 or 3 clubs are doing the right thing. Unfortunately there's not enough clubs giving state champs the focus they should. But from their point of view why would they?

some indication of state champs will be shown on friday at pasadena

sturt v mavs div 1 night

Actually no they wont. A meaningless game, the important ones were in the semi fionals a couple of weeks ago. Winning this one means nothing.

This competition should be an opportunity to provide development pathways for players, instead it is pointless. What does it actually contribute? It needs a radical makeover and fast.

There is such a bias towards Sturt and Forestville, it's not funny. These clubs play too many home games. Instead, why don't we have all one division at one stadium. How about this!

U12 Boys: Sturt host at Pasadena (3 courts)
U12 Girls: Woodville host at St Clair (3 courts)
U14 Boys: Centrals host at Starplex (4 courts)
U14 Girls: Forestville host at Wayville (3 courts)
U16 Boys D1: Norwood host at Mars (3 courts)
U16 Boys D2: Southern host at Morphett Vale (4 courts)
U16 Girls: Div 1: South host at Marion (2 courts)
U16 Girls Div 2: West host at Port Adelaide (3 courts)
U18 Boys: Eastern host at Mt Barker (2 courts)
U18 Girls: North host at Hillcrest (2 courts)

Every club should host at least one leg of the tournament. Instead, we will see the same old bias where some clubs get few home games, other clubs get shafted with low number of home game, while Sturt and Forestville don't venture outside their cosy little comfort zones.

Last year some guy did the work and confirmed that bias. Each Club deserves 50% home games. I think the Clubs who got well shafted were Norwood, Eastern, Centrals in that order and had less than 25% home games. The clubs with well over 50% home games were Sturt and Forestville. (surprise, surprise)

Let's give all teams and all clubs a level playing field, then this pointless competition might actually carry some weight

Anon, that's what I'm talkin' about

Yeah all right in theory but you are expecting age groups to have all their games at shite stadiums like Marion, Hillcrest, Port adelaide, and the second court at Mavs.

Apparently Hillcrest stadium floor taped together with duct tape for games this week, no shot clock, no time clock.

It aint bias, its just BSA spreading the luurve and not using the shite courst if they can help it.

You obviously mis-understood what I said. I know that clubs don't run the comp. What I am saying is that scheduling the games for a division at one stadium provides a relatively level playing field.

More importantly, it also provides clubs with the opportunity to gather revenue through their canteens. Do not under-estimate the financial benefit it can provide:

club run canteens
Sturt, Forestville, Southern, South, West, North
non-club
Woodville, Centrals, Norwood, Eastern

So, all I am saying is that EITHER a team (club) has 50% of their games scheduled at their home courts, OR no-one has home court advantage.

Currently, by providing some clubs with over 50% home games, it means those clubs have a financial advantage through their canteen, and the home court advantage provides a benefit on the court. This dilutes their "we are the greatest" claim when they hold a piece of plastic screwed to a piece of rainforest.

Now you change your perspective about your post, it is about revenue now. Well guess what I am sick to death of having to go to dark stadiums with crap floors that are an OHS issue. I could put up with attending there once over a weekend tournament but NOT every bloody game!! Make noise about the crap stadiums not about the injustice you perceive because you are not getting finanacial benefit. Both will come if BSA assist to do something about the courts.

A lif isnt fair sometimes and i dont come from sturt or forrestville.

AS long as a team doesnt get to play all there games at home for that weekend then its a fair draw.

if you play 5 games and get 3 home games then should be very happy, anything less than 2 or more than 3 is unnaceptable.

and if a club doesnt run the canteen, whats to stop it setting up a bbq and selling snags for the weekend, keep a lookout for cheap cans of drinks from coles or woolworths and purchase 30 packs for 30 bucks, then sell the cans for 2 bucks each and make a profit, just a bit of organisation needed, rather than sitting on your computer sooking about things not being fair!!

I can't wait until the champs are actually here!

339, I can't wait for the bitching to start!

i cant wait to give forrestville and sturt a bath and send them both packing

NURSE, NUUURRRSEEE, NUUUURRRRSSSEE

I agree that these state champs are pretty well pointless as far as the result is concerned and the same result could be concluded from the winter season results.

At first glance, there appears to be a level of favouritism that dilutes the value of the event. In the legal profession, the saying is "Apart from Justice being done, it must seen to be done". Based on the comments above, and from other previous posts, there seems to be a groundswell of discontent from a number of posters out there who feel like they have not received justice (even though it may have been done - only the evidence will decide) You can't please all the people all the time, but the consistent, elevated levels of frustration are a sure sign that people feel dis-enchanted.

In particular, the fair scheduling of games seems to be an issue that needs to be transparent and I agree that all teams deserve to play 50% of their games on their home court. I think BSA have around 34 courts to schedule on so the games need to either be at home courts, or if not available at a suitable neutral venue. There are also concerns over time schedules as well and how this impacts of some clubs. There is also the financial reward to some clubs who run a canteen, so in the event that they have a higher proportion of games at their venue, then they stand to benefit from this. One posted mentioned about setting up a BBQ outside. I can't imagine Mavs being too welcome if they setup a fundraising sausage sizzle in the Wayville carpark.

I dread the situation where a team plays all their games at one stadium and at convenient times, then wins a division.

All that aside, that is to take nothing away from the skill of the players or coaches, or clubs who do achieve success in this competition. Achievement and growth through the controlled environment of sport is an important part of juvenile development. I wish all teams good luck and fair competition.

So, how will the weekend unfold?

Boys: Sturt will dominate most divisions with West (U16B) and Mavs likely to snare a title here and there. Forestville, Norwood, North and Southern will get the odd point from the semi-finals. Woodville, Centrals and South unlikely to bother the scorers. Sturt have a very basic formula when it come to playing ball and their success is a testament to their development programme and more importantly the skill of their coaches in drawing the best out of their players. Sturt will probably draw 50% of the points on offer in the boys, 45% divided up between about 3 clubs, rest get the other 5%.

Girls: Forestville should make a sweep of around 80% of titles. We are likely to have some all eagle affairs in the B's. Sturt will put up some token resistance to Forestville in the girls but their girls are much weaker than the eagles for some reason, even though their game style is fairly similar. Mavs Div 1 teams should be right up there with their state country connections, but the Mavs Div 2's drop off significantly and so are unlikely to get many points in the B's. Norwood will get the odd point here and there, but run a third place to the above teams. Norwood should take out the U18 Div 1, but will face strong resistance from Mavs and Sturt. Other clubs will be a fair way back and so we'll see 85% of the points go to Eagles, 10% to Sturt and 5% to the rest.

So, if the point of this is to work out the best club and best team per division, we pretty much know this, however, if is to give players some carnival experience, then it achieves its goal.

We seem to be a 10 point worse theam when playing there. I don't know why but it seems to be an advantage to them.


its because you get intimidated by them, give as good as you get, they push you push back, they trap you trap back, and watch them go to water like anyone when the pressure is on

i would say morphett vale is the best stadium now however people sook about driving ten minutes up the express way.

simple solution is play all finals at the dome

Jack do some more research buddy on the girls 85% to Forestville?

GFs 12s Fville v Sturt then West Norwood
14s Easter v Sturt then Fville and North
16s Eastern v Sturt then Norwood and Fville
18s Norwood v Sturt then Eastern and North
21s anything could happen

My guess without 21s:

Fville 8
Sturt 12
Eastern 12
North 2
Norwood 9

Of course a lot depends on pools which sometimes makes crossovers interesting a cut throat semi where teams can play badly in one game and end up 3rd instead of 1st. Should be the closest weekend on both boys and girls for a while. Boys won't be as one sided as you may think.

ok in the know be interested in your thoughts on the boys

"There is such a bias towards Sturt and Forestville, it's not funny. These clubs play too many home games"

Hydra for the record from what I can gather in the 2010 State Champs, Forestville teams played 37% of their games at Wayville.

Of the 51 minor round games played there I believe only 36 involved Forestville teams.

you cant ignore west boys results.

is their going to be u20/21s - I've heard nothing.

west will improve in some girls groups

mavs smoky for state girls

Forestville

36 games at Wayviile
62 games elsewhere

37%

Pallas, you obviously have the draw from last year, how did the other clubs go?

The point I was making is to answer the incorrect comment of : "There is such a bias towards Sturt and Forestville, it's not funny. These clubs play too many home games"

This is simply a lie. Not supported by any facts.

If you want to complain how about you provide actual data supporting your complaint.

Pallas, you obviously have the draw from last year, how did the other clubs go?

Sorry Jack don't have access to anything at the moment.

Just looked at the State Division Boys U12, U14, U16, and U18 from 2010 and where games were played. Haven't done the reserves or girls groups, but expect a similar result.

Team, (Games on actual Home Court, %)
Sturt (10, 63%) Tigers (9, 56%), Eagles (8, 50%) North (8, 50%) Woodville (8, 50%), West (7, 44%) South (7, 44%) Norwood (4, 25%) Mavs (3, 19%) Centrals (1, 6%)

63% home game advantage is pretty nice!, Centrals WTF? only 6% home court advantage.

Dr Jack says no bias towards Eagles in the State Boys groups, but Norwood, Mavs and Centrals had the pointy end of the pineapple shoved somewhere and the lubricant was dencorub.

Centrals 14% ... 7 of the 7 games at starplex involved Centrals team, as expected
Eastern 13% ... 7 of th 7 games at Mt Barker involved Eastern teams, as expected
Forestville 37% ... 36 of the 51 Wayville games
North Adelaide 38% ...31 of the 40 Hillcrest games
Norwood 24% ... 16 of the 23 MARS games
South Adelaide 34% ... 28 of the 33 Marion games
Southern 52% ... 39 of the 55 Morphett Vale games
Sturt 46% ... 45 of the 56 Pasadena games
West Adelaide 44% ...25 of the 50 Port Adelaide games
Woodville 50% ... 27 of the 52 Dome games

I'd say the biggest factor was court space and location rather than particular clubs getting an unfair deal.

For those that are interested, seedings and pools have been released.

thanks - just checked them out - I am amazed hardly any country associations have entered (.
I liked the combined concept and was hoping for some teams.

Problem withthat, which i too think is a great idea is the better country kids have now started to migrate to metro teams to play so the teams that would normally come that are stronger with the country kids in it are going to be weaker..

12's and 14's perhaps are going to benefit from this, but i can see 16 & 18's being short on the ground...

BMF,

The better country kids have always played for Metro teams. Just a dumb decision all round by BSA again on allowing combined teams into a competition when all that has happened now is ....... nothing except a couple of Limestone coast team will distrupt the Nationals and Classics qualification for someone.

i guess it's about opportunity..perhaps next year there wont be as many and will form teams...thats the way i see it anyway..

the region's themselves i think are big enough to certainly allow very competitive teams if they can get together and train...that may be the hardest part..

i think in the future you will see some regions come in and be competitive...

after all it's about progress and improvement of children...

few things re the region teams -

Concept - first i like the idea and think it is good. Some larger regional centre teams could play state - limestone, iron triangle, yorke / barossa.

reality - most regions play footy / netball over winter and basketball is mainly a summer sport option. A lot of decent country basketballers have already had 2-3 tournaments under their belt by state champs.

the good players living greater than 2.5 hrs away from metro are often in boarding schools by u18s and affiliated with a metro club. The others know their limitations by u18s and would be hesitant to enter into this new no-mans land of regional combined association teams.

It would also mean some regional areas would have to train for basketball into footy / netball season - quiet a cultural change.

If bsa stick with it over a few years it will evolve - but it must have country support.

I only hope country talked it up on the street.

sorry "quite a cultural change"

i could see some easily coming together to train - millicent / gambier / naracoorte.
whyalla / pirie / augusta.

adelaide plains / yorke.

all within 1 hr drive

But some others would really have to plan it a bit -

riverland / broken hill

far west coast / lincoln / far north

would be a weekend camp scenario.

to me the concept is well and truly in it's infancy..give it time...let associations get together and it will work...

if this idea is getting knocked down now, then people are too short sighted to see the long term aim..

1st year teams will be hard to organise, but with the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th years teams will evolve...coaches will get organised and then things will move in the right direction...

time will tell, but don't bash something so young...

That is at present what happens anyway...so nothing has changed...what we might see in the future is country kids stay at home, get developed locally in ITC programs and then stay on and play for the region instead of going to town to play.

I would be very surpirsed to see a player who is playing for a metro team then go play for a regional team at the state champs. I agree that is wrong, but what I have just said is something that may happen in the future..so there will be no impact on any metro club with regard to player development...

the hassle i see will be if a region qualifies for Melb Classics at the expense of a metro club...

I think BSA are taking the right steps to make basketball in SA a strong united game with the sights set on all kids playing in South Australia, not just those playing in Adelaide.

BMF,

1. Country kids will always play in the metro comp, as you have said, there is not a lot of local winter comps for them to develop in and they will need continued development if they are to improve,

2. Regional team are not able to qualify for classics or nationals. If 1 group of kids are allowed to combine to make nationals, what is stopping metro teams combining and playing as a social team. Equal opportunity I say. Try taking that to DS&R and explaining that 'he that 10 year old can do it, but that 10 year old cant'.

3. Its called DNSP, not TC, and no kid has done at Nationals well coming exclusively out of that program.

Just another BSA mess up.

1. Country kids will always play in the metro comp, as you have said, there is not a lot of local winter comps for them to develop in and they will need continued development if they are to improve...
Not entirely true...i could list a few regions that play winter ball..

2. Regional team are not able to qualify for classics or nationals. If 1 group of kids are allowed to combine to make nationals, what is stopping metro teams combining and playing as a social team. Equal opportunity I say. Try taking that to DS&R and explaining that 'he that 10 year old can do it, but that 10 year old cant'.

You may be correct about nationals and do remember something about it..as for yr social teams..u know that can't happen so it's a throw away rant...and the DS&R...WTF I have know I dea where u went with that...

3. Its called DNSP, not TC, and no kid has done at Nationals well coming exclusively out of that program.

I named it ITC as that is what it was when I went thru it...i know what it's called now...

Just another BSA mess up.
I guess you have thought deeply about the future of the game in SA for all kids and sent them thru to BSA? Or just jumped on forums to reject every idea they have?

I could go on, and i am sure you could too, but seriously...waste of both our times..

i'll leave you with the last word...

I think the metro comps during winter is stronger than any local country comps.

I have lived metro and country - been involved with both.

IMO - most good local association country comps across the board are around metro div 2 standard with Div 1 level individuals.

A good regional combo team is eqivalent to a div 1 team.

The issue of a regional combo team is purely legal - ie within by-laws - you will find the classics and u14 are "club" based.
Now the legality is the word club and it's constitution - if these combo teams became "clubs" they are entitled to qualify.

I feel the biggest issue for most country folk is the shift from playing footy / netball over winter to a big basketball commitment during that time.

The question the pops up can ie can metro teams combine to form a "club" the answer would be yes - but there would be bulk fine print.

I understand the whole concept of combo regional teams was to make them more competitive and around the mark for state champs. Now the pathway has been made - we need some teams / associations to get on board.

A lot of smaller local associations were very individual in their structure and did not combine well. This just says 'we have a pathway now" - which is good managemnt by BSA - showing pathways.

Yes - i have watched the castle movie many times !