Centrebet have Adelaide at $6.50 with a -12.5 line.

Don't know what to predict as usual with this team. Could play hard and surprise a team benching starters early, or could just be too undermatched at most positions and get blown out. This isn't the last regular season game for the Breakers so that might influence things.

If he can keep out of foul trouble, DJ should be alright on Wilkinson - stick to him at one end and then trouble him at the other. Holmes is a reasonable match up on Vukona.

Hopefully the win against the Blaze wasn't enough to sate the side. You know how some teams win their "personal grand final" and can't re-find that hunger again next week?

Good posts you both!!

And Jack, good to have you back firing up the keyboard. You seemed to go a bit missing during the 36ers drought - thought you were out on depression. We love your stuff.

No nothing like that mate, just letting others have their say!

Whenever we are in NZ i think back to the 36ers giving the Breakers their first win, Maher's dog of a last game and Gilchrist putting the 36ers on his back only to have Groves miss a lay up. Lets face it Auckland isnt a happy hunting ground for the 36ers. Tonight is the night that that gets switched around. Lemanis has to much at risk if one of his guns goes down in a game that means nothing to the Breakers. I think he will rest the his stars long and often.

Yes, I am thinking a wise coach would protect the big guns for the final series. The result means nothing to the Breakers per se, and so I am thinking we could see them do just the bare minimum to be competitive rather than risk an injury that limits their chances of a flag.

The stars have somewhat aligned for a possible sixers win. Lets not talk winning form prior to finals blah, blah, blah, why would the Breakers care about this game. I expect plenty of time from their bench players which might be inspiration enough for the Breakers. But.......I'd like to believe the Sixers starters are better than the Breaker's second unit.

I'm not a betting man but I am tempted to spill some cash on this one as I believe the sixers will win.

Might that be Fitch, Jack? Maybe NZ should give them a call about sponsoring the uniforms...

Looking forward to another shootout. Both teams give up lots of points. I doubt the Sixers have the defensive strengths to stop the Breakers scoring, just as they didn't with Gold Coast.

The key will be scoring and second chances. If they can keep the Breakers off the boards then they limit their second chances and stand a better chance of keeping them to a losing score. But that means not lettign the NZ guards get inside to draw defenders.

I think the Sixers have nothing to lose and a LOT to gain in this game, as players and as a team. I'm tipping a surprise upset and Sixers win by 5.

I'm even working at home so I can watch teh game when it starts! It's Big Kev time - I'm excited!!

if Lemanis doesnt rest his stars and doesnt flirt with his form will that mean you chumps will stop posting your dribble on this site.

New Zealand will pump them even with their bench on

Breakers by 24

Aaah, earth quake, I'm shaking...







...my head.

Is this game on onehd tonight or tomorrow night? I'm getting conflicting stories...

Cheers Anon!!!

Wilkinson is OUT (Flu) for tonight's game, and Penney apparently went through a rigorous fitness test before the game.

Hoping the Sixers can pull off a win, would definitely be helpful for my bank account...

We're underway. Live stats.

2 fouls on Rhys Carter in the first quarter...
That could be big down the stretch

Decent game so far, with the Sixers clearly looking to pump it inside to DJ, and use quick ball movement to create open shots.

Breakers leading 30 - 22 at the end of the first.

On a side note, I have already seen Penney slip on the court decal in the key, as well as Bruce slipping over just over mid-court.

Is the court surface an issue? Should the league be looking into this to ensure no injuries can occur to the players??

Dowdell hits a couple in a row. Must stay in touch early.

Big Ads smirks at the comments from "Earth quake" and then questions the appropriateness of the pseudonym

Lead pulled back to three. Breakers bring in vets Bruton and Boucher.

Both teams hitting at 60% or better.

Johnson moves to 17 points, two minutes clear of half-time.

Pledger with four fouls, means Breakers will have to go small from here for a while. Currently playing Boucher and Abercrombie as their bigs. Anthony and Vukona are their other options.

36ers don't wait to press the advantage. Johnson to 20 points. Adelaide within a point.

gee i cant watch game up here but DJ must be doin good again,pity he got splinters for most of the season.

Breakers lead the Sixers by 5 at the half: 50 - 45

Eddie Shannon picked up a technical on a Breakers inbounds pass (1.2 secs on the clock) for stepping over the line.

Anon - The camera showed the ref turning to the score bench and signalling a 'T' on #14, so I would assume that means a tech was called....

I think it's an automatic tech if you foul the passer.

It wasn't that he fouled the inbounder but rather his hands were over the line which isn't allowed. Very stupid play by him but im not sure why he was even out there guarding the inbounds pass with 1.2 seconds left!

3 points in 4 minutes..............must be the 3rd quarter

Johnson has 24 points and nine boards mid(ish)way through the third. Picks up another board - now has a double-double.

Third game for Johnson without Ballinger:

31 and 13
15 and 9
24 and 10 (in progress)

Need to pull the deficit back though because it risks getting unmanageable.

War of attrition as Boucher picks up his third foul trying to stop Johnson. Pledger and Vukona still on the bench with four each.

After a bad start to the quarter, it's 18-18 in the third. Shannon yet to miss a shot, though he's been very selective.

The Breakers lead stays at 5 at the end of the 3rd.

For the Sixers:

DJ with 24 points, 12 rebounds
Dowdell with 11 points

For the Breakers:

Abercrombie with 23 points, 5 rebounds
Penney with 11 points

Sixers run out of puff in teh 4th. The drop-oof in finishing around the basket let the Breakers get away and now the sixers offence has broken down. They'd better get a score soon or this could be a sad finish to a good effort for the first 3 quarters.

Anon, how's that? That he should've started him all along? Statistically, the 36ers were not better off with both Ballinger and Johnson on at the same time.

I think he's getting his numbers now because he is the primary guy on offence in the frontcourt. More space to move maybe.

---

Getting overrun now. Shame we couldn't keep it close. Scoreless in the fourth quarter so far. Almost seven minutes now without a score in the fourth. Doesn't look like the best game from Hill.

Make that 7:40. Finally a score. Could well set a record for lowest scoring quarter unless they pick it up.

Turnovers... 19 for the game.

So I'm really impressed to see all of those rules that seemed to have been ignored whenever I've seen other NBL games are being called tonight. Ball carriers pushing off, moving screens, hooking on teh drive. I thought they must have been removed from teh rule books. Good to see some refs calling them for a change.

Played well for three quarters then an absolute blow out fourth. Harsh finale for a rough season. Congratulations to the guys on the things that did go well, and hopefully the off-season brings opportunities to work on and fix the other things.

Not really anon. Johnson was the Sizers' offence and he got tired. Once he got tired, they struggled to score. Adelaide played 8 deep (Daly only got 3 mins) and Breakers played 10 deep (Bloxham only had 3 mins). That made the difference in teh fourth quarter.

Breakers will have to lift their game in teh finals, especially defensively. Perth look good to me, against the Breakers who played tonight.

Poor Hill. absolute nothing went right for him.

Isaac you can't seriously believe that the Sixers wouldn't have done better then 9-19 if DJ had started at the start of the season with Ballinger. The +/- is barely a reliable statistic. If it was we would have kept Cooper this season and according to +/- he would have been team MVP this season. If DJ is coming off the bench at a point when Ballinger is tired then that is not showing the effectiveness.

There is no doubt DJ's statistics have been better the last 3 games due to Ballinger being out but that never stopped Clarke from playing him 30 minutes a game when he was there to see what DJ could do.

Anyone that knew anything about basketball believed DJ should have been starting or at least playing decent minutes, if not for his ability then at least for the fact that he is the only center in the team. However the coach was too stubborn and didn't want to be proven wrong. An absolutely embarrassing poor coaching decision to go with an absolutely embarrassing season. Clarke is lucky he has contacts and will get some better players next season otherwise he would have been exposed as the lame duck coach that he is.

I don't believe he avoided (for 20+ games) running DJ and Balls together just so he wouldn't be proven wrong. 9-19 is being proven wrong, right? You'd take a better record over being stubborn if you honestly believed it to be a better option.

I think this goes in the "We should've played Sam Harris!" basket. You can talk about that all you want, but it didn't happen for a reason.

I reckon had we run them together, we would've given up more at the other end (well, more than we already did).

And this "only centre" business is boring. For half the game tonight, the Breakers ran and won with no "centre" at all. At one point, Boucher was their big. Yes, they had a fuller and more superior team, but the concept of centre in the NBL is not always what fans expect it to be.

Yes, I would've tried DJ and Balls together early on for the hell of it (even if only so fans could see it once and for all), but I'm not convinced it was the best option. For one thing, it takes the most vocal/leader starter out of the five. I just do not believe that a coach with so much on the line would purposefully ignore a particular combination without good reason. He sees the combinations at training daily too.

We did look out of gas in the fourth and that's disappointing. Its not like any of these guys are being expected to play for 38 mins plus as stars commonly did when we played 48 min games.

We need to have a much fitter squad next season and to that end, it'd be nice if the injury bug copped a solid dose of Mortein.

I know there is a lot of things wrong with this team, but please, for the love of god Marty, get some guys who can shoot next season!

Isaac & Kingjames i understand both your points but i think this is where Clarke gets in trouble. I remember Brett Brown put the best 1 2 3 4 5 combo together in Sydney & they fell short of the playoffs (Woodberry got injured as well). You can read too much into that sometimes. Playing Balls & DJ would be worth knowing the result but give it a chance to work. They are grown men (not AIS students) & sometimes the coach needs 2 remember its a game & enjoying it is important. I would hate Clareke as a coach, just like i hated Brett Brown! Shut up & let us play.....

I think every sixer missed their lay-ups in the teams usual fade out in the fourth.
Didn't really look like scoring .
Bruce fed a few underneath and shannon eventually broke the duck.
Ball carrier, Bruce ,called twice for pushing off the guard ! Haven't seen that for a very long time.
As you mention , PeterJohn.
I don't believe they called a lot, the last time he was here , playing NBL , a few seasons ago.

Anon, not discounting the need for rebounds, but other teams are getting those board-crashers with Vukona, Petrie, Rychart, guards who rebound well, etc - not just centres. Johnson is averaging 12 RPG these last few games so he can get it done to some extent.

Tonight, almost on the GC and in the last Sydney road game, we've really been short extras shooters to close out games. We have our share of guards, but Carter is streaky, and Hill and Creek aren't really strong shooters. Would've liked to have seen a hypothetical season with Shannon, DeVries, Herbert and Ng fit all year to see how much it impacted results.

Agreed Anon but we'll never know. He's a head strong coach with a stubborn ego & he showed it again tonight. It was like an ABA side with Balls, similar to Kazoo & Sydney. Injuries impact all clubs & the back up must be solid. Imports - atrocious! If i were a pro baller i would not want to go to Adelaide!

Creek has a bright future..Im not doubting that..He has freakish athleticism and strength you cannot teach.
However, there are quite big holes in his game and one major issue that could hinder his career..(What position will he play?)

Obviously he is too small to play the 4 spot, but yet he does not possess the shooting abilities to play the 3 spot. Obviously, he needs to get alot of shots up over the off-season and develop his perimeter game.

For the Emus, he has played the 4 spot and excelled because he was able to use his speed and athleticism to exploit 'mismatches'(e.g. Albert Schweitzer). This is a professional mens league though, so that is unacheiveable here.

He actually reminds me of a young Tom Abercrombie..When he was 18, he was a terrible shooter and nothing more than a "volleyballer playing basketball"..He has improved unbelievably since then on his shooting, penetration (1st step quickness), shooting off the dribble and his handle

I knew someone would raise Harris' dunk. I liked it too, but if he was good enough, he would play, he would've played meaningful minutes when he was with Perth, someone would've signed him rather than us trying him as an eleventh man roll of the dice. All we've done is postpone him trying footy for 9 months, IMO.

As I've said, I would've tried Balls and DJ starting too but I don't think it wasn't tried purely out of stubbornness. They may have tried that at trainings and found the bench killed them every time, etc.

"the 36ers were not better off with both Ballinger and Johnson on at the same time."

Isaac I would say this is less about the players and more about how they were used. As discussed previously Balls was playing centre with DJ on the court, crowding the area.
If Clark had once tried balls as an outside shooter with DJ controlling the Centre I would love to see our record. The stubborness Clark showed was his inability to change the way he wanted to use players.

Isaac, I am really starting to get fed up with your cryptic Ballinger bashing. Well if the 36ers want to get rid of a 6'9 naturalized MVP runner up and possibly one of the best shooters in the NBL! Instead of getting good support for and around him, that would be simply the most foolish and laughable thing the club will ever do.

Oh, I forgot, players like Ballinger just grow on trees these days!

The Breakers are a good example of a team that can still get boards without been too reliant on a 'genuine center'. Sure they have Pledger but the key is that they can get rebounds from their guards and small forwards..

Boucher, Vukona (exceptional rebounder for 6"5/6"6), Abercrombie, Wilkinson, BJ Anthony.

Bugger i missed Brad Hills last game and Holmes as well, oh well season ended as it shouldve considering the team we put on the floor this season. Disgusting to be outscored 30-6 in the 4th quarter, am i suprised really based on the heart shown by this team this year? No, am i still mad as hell....YEP!

To buy new season tickets or not to buy season tickets.....im the customer, sell me on your product SOS, whos on the to get list....BESIDES Adam Gibson who everyone is aware of already.

Let me put it this way .. Harris still looks very raw.
There's a bit there with the dunks, blocks and blocking the lane. Hill has no hope driving on him.
That's funny to watch.
But then he does a few silly things as well , and he's about 27.. looks a lot younger.. been around for awhile but still raw.
Might be worth trying him up in the forward goal square, to see if he can kick a few or a bitta rucking.

I haven't said get rid of him, I said put the right pieces with him or it's just rinse and repeat for another season. My proposed roster for next year had him starting at PF with DJ as C.

Thanks Boti

The NBA provides +/- in all it's box scores and I thought it'd be interesting to do the same. It's just a stat, not a crusade. Years before, I produced HSA stats that, if anything, suit Ballinger very much.

That said, nor do I think Ballinger or anyone should be a sacred cow in a team that has lost for so long. I think results suggest that unless we put the right sort of players around him, we are wasting the prime of his career. The results show that there have been problems somewhere in our teams for a few years now, right? There are things more important than playing him at PF, etc. The mix of players is crucial.

No shit it's been an awful season. So was last year and other years before it. That's all the more reason to examine every perspective. I think Clarke underestimated the leadership and defensive problems when he assembled this team, and neither issue was helped with the loss of DeVries and Herbert. Someone will jump on this as evidence of Clarke sucking, but it's not like previous coaches or most fans have worked this out from watching a bit of tape or a pre-season.

Is it true that the coach flogs the team during the week on the training court, and that is why we run out off puff in the 4th and can't close out games all season?

Balls is all we got.

Plus-minus from last night's game:

New Zealand

Kirk Penney (32)
Mika Vukona (25)
Paul Henare (18)
Alex Pledger (16)
Benny Anthony (14)
Thomas Abercrombie (12)
Josh Bloxham (9)
Cj Bruton (9)
Kevin Braswell (8)
Dillon Boucher (8)
Corey Webster (-6)

Adelaide

Tom Daly (-5)
Mitchell Creek (-8)
Jeff Dowdell (-11)
Aaron Bruce (-14)
Eddie Shannon (-18)
Brad Hill (-21)
Rhys Carter (-21)
Daniel Johnson (-21)
Jacob Holmes (-26)


And the final team aggregate for the season:

Tom Daly (+4)
Darren Ng (0)
Sam Harris (-1)
Brad Hill (-5)
Craig Winder (-16)
Daniel Johnson (-43)
Jeff Dowdell (-47)
Ron Howard (-48)
Troy De Vries (-57)
Aaron Bruce (-69)
Mitchell Creek (-76)
Rhys Carter (-79)
Eddie Shannon (-88)
Jacob Holmes (-112)
Adam Ballinger (-122)

Bruce came on , swished a three , some nice feeds to Dowdell, looked pretty good.
Put the jets on CJ, but missed the lay up.
The fourth was anticlimactic.
We looked so very tired, physically, couldn't get lay-ups in.
Clarke's training is very tough.

(But, I remembered , last season , the team fade outs in the fourth (many) and our players thought they were pretty fit but said it was a mental thing, not being able to finish.)

I posted it because I have been doing it for the other games (of other NBL teams) and continued for those even remotely interested. Had I not posted one for games without Ballinger, I'm sure some hater (oh, you!) would've said it was because I was hiding that players still suck without Ballinger playing.

The NBA do it. Someone on OzHoops has calculated +/- for NBL teams this season also, with adjusted +/- as well. Many NBA stats sites do the same thing plus more stats as well. European leagues do something similar (with an efficiency stat). If you don't like it, ignore it or write emails to the NBA complaining about their use of it.

Nice post annon, you fuckwit. Isaac is just about the most balanced poster on here, and don't forget that it is primarily HIS EFFORT which allows this site to exist. As far as the +/-, he did it for a couple of games then everyone started asking for it to continue. And it IS a realistic assessment of what players and combinations of players is successful.

For me, I've said it in the past that I don't think Ballinger alone is good enough to win us anything. I wouldn't describe him as a great player, I think he is an exceptional role player. He's a fantastic scorer providing someone else does the hard work of setting him up, he's a below average defender and rebounder, an above average shotblocker, and is not a leader. He's also been our marquee player for four seasons, and we've been shithouse during that time. His place in the team should be examined closely. Johnson also showed in the past three games (when he actually got to play) how truly dominant he can be.

For me, I would want to keep Johnson, Creek, Carter, and Dowdell (and possibly Herbert), and then broom the rest.

Anon #313719,

Try looking more than 1-dimensional when it comes to gameplay and players.

Unfortunately the +/- statistic is useful in determing what sets are your most productive and who aren't. It doesn't take away anything from players as individuals, but certainly helps determine who should run on court with another.

I thought the same as you about +/-; but you need to look past it an realize the that the value is their rating when playing as a team, and doesn't necessarily explain how good or bad they actually are.

And for the record, Analytics is becoming a bigger tool across all sports, better get used to it; cause every code will be using this sort of stat soon.

You can have someone like DJ come on during at 10pt surge in one quarter, then have him play the final where the opposition run 12 unanswered points. The team may still win in and DJ will finish with -2 +/- but it doesn't mean he was a bad defender nor a burden on the team.

Clubs use a similar method to determine their best combinations on offence and defence. I remember the scouting reports from when Smyth was 36ers coach that showed the best scoring combinations and best combinations for limiting the other team. Often it's not what your gut (or fans) would tell you. Players will also get shotcharts for players they will primarily defend, showing them the tendencies to score from particular spots or be less effective when forced one way or another. It's not everything by a long stretch but it is some part of the modern game.

Not 100% sure, but I heard that Darren Ng featured early in the season in the better defensive combinations, yet how many fans on here would've picked that? It becomes a pervasive meme that he's weak because he's not a tough, hustler like some players, yet he is pretty good at staying in front of his man, switching with awareness and draws charges better than most (shrewd flopping probably!).

When I started posting +/- stuff, I put up info with it about the limitations and noted that it might only be of interest to some people. There's loads of info about it (for, against, etc) on the net from very technical statistics sites. I also specifically posted about what can happen with +/- values for key players on a losing team, and checked the numbers (as an example) of Bogut on the Bucks (key contributor on a team under .500). Jon Brockman stood out (positive on a losing team) as perhaps an equivalent of David Cooper last year with the 36ers.

Anyone who looks at last year's +/- and thinks Cooper's +45 means I'm suggesting he was team MVP struggles with general comprehension.

That said, some +/- stats hint at things worth investigating further. Most striking this year to me is Coenraad at the Hawks who is -100 or worse despite being on a team around .500 and with teammates who are well in the positive (including Saville at over +200). He finished the year in a slump, but started well (50%ish from three, etc). Did he just suffer most in the run of losses when Saville was out (considering they roughly play the same position), or is he a problem for the team?

Another two are Scoines (toils hard for the Kings; maybe their equivalent of Trueman at the Cats) and Dickel (quite positive in a wooden spoon team).

Isaac - as you may have gathered from my occasional responses to the +/- stats, I'm a skeptic. But, I wondered whether you've come across anyone looking at the +/- points per minute played? Or expressing the season aggregate as +/- points per minute per game. That might address the outlier problem I see in the stats. In particular, I'd be interested in what that does to Ballinger's stat relative to the other team members, given his large minutes per game.

PeterJohn, I think there are people doing this with NBA stats. They also account for the pacing of various teams, strength of teammates and opposition (on court at that particular time) - e.g., every single score is weighted. Working it out based on minutes played wouldn't be too hard - grab that season aggregate and the total minutes played from Sporting Pulse. Doing that more advanced stuff with weighting is probably a project for a dedicated stats person. I think you could probably do it with access to just what's available online, but it would take a lot more time.

Anon, keep believing that "brother" thing. Not sure what you gain from it.

Isaac can defend himself, but honestly anon, I can't see anywhere where he hasn't been moderate in his views and supported his views (however misconceived you may think they are) with some reasoning. You are free to disagree (as many do) but if you want any credibility attack the arguments not the person.

Balls is a very capable ball player, but he clearly has substantial weaknesses, one of which unfortunately is to keep being associated with losing teams. Is that his fault? Maybe, maybe not. But surely he is big enough a person to take some constructive criticism, and if not, then that is his problem.

As for +/-, at the end of the day it is just an interesting stat (like EFF) that only tells part of a story. Its main weakness is that in a losing, dysfunctional team, statistically the biggest minuses should go to those players who have spent the most time on court. The corollary applies to winning, successful teams, where the greatest plusses should go to those players who spent the most time on court. I personally think a +/- per 40 mins would be a better statistic, but that still relies on overall team performance.

So Ball's +/- stat is likely skewed because he is a starting 5 player who spent a lot of time on court on, lets face it, a shite team. It does not necessarily mean that Balls (-122) is a worse player than Penney (plus 200 something). But it does tell you something about the respective teams they are on.

Every statistic is only as good as the way you use it.

And complaining about language when you are the worst offender in the thread is just hypocritical.

XY, there are at least two different anonymous posters here that you might be referencing.

Isaac is correct.

Ballinger minus a proper support cast (defenders / leadership) = the last few season's results.

Ballinger with a proper support cast would be awesome.

With back to back horrendous years, no one should be off limits.

Once people calm down and look at things objectively, they may eventually come around.

I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying without the right pieces around him, strap in for more of what we're currently experiencing.

Since when was Oscar not wanted here, anyway? IIRC, he left at the same time as the club was up for sale, or when Mal had just bought it. Either way, the club's ongoing existence was looking pretty shaky at the time and you couldn't blame anyone for looking for a more-secure position.

Not to derail this thread further, but there's a significant disparity between the language and grammar levels of people reasonably discussing all options in an intelligent and objective manner and those verbally berating Isaac as apparently being unquestionably completely incorrect for espousing a differing view from main stream opinion.

Just sayin'.

Isaac, the anonymous poster who was complaining about language did swear twice in that very same post. That is just hypocritical.

I'm obvioulsy missing a bit because I wouldn't pick Isaac for a Balls basher (no pun intended). And I don't think he's ever said get rid of him. But like i said, maybe i missed something

If anything Isaac ticks me off by being able to find something positive about every player on this crap team.

I agree with needmore that have not seen Isaac as a Ballinger basher or even a major critic of which there has been a lot over last month or so in particular.
I myself a massive fan can now see with what DJ has done over last 2 or so weeks and how little impact as our highest paid and best player Adam has had under pressure this year when needed and that is why these guys get paid more than the others .
I am happy for SOS to keep but if think can use money better then thats their call as no good just putting a band aid onto this team.
There is only one way to but up but a long way to get where we would like to be

Thanks Isaac. Inspired, I've taken your suggestion to heart and done the following. Take your basic +/- for the season and scale it to +/- per 40 minutes played. I'm not sure how it will show on people's screens and hope it's not too much of a mess:

Player	    +/-	    Rank         +/-   Rank
                               per 40
                               minutes
Tom Daly	4	1	+1.6	1
Darren Ng	0	2	0	2
Sam Harris	-1	3	-11.9	15
Brad Hill	-5	4	-0.3	3
Craig Winder	-16	5	-2.9	4
Daniel Johnson	-43	6	-3.2	5
Jeff Dowdell	-47	7	-5.7	7
Ron Howard	-48	8	-8.3	11
Troy De Vries	-57	9	-8.6	12
Aaron Bruce	-69	10	-10.4	14
Mitchell Creek	-76	11	-9.0	13
Rhys Carter	-79	12	-5.4	6
Eddie Shannon	-88	13	-6.2	8
Jacob Holmes	-112	14	-6.7	9
Adam Ballinger	-122	15	-6.8	10

Oops - I meant "bottom *4* move up at least 5 places"

The other anon(s) ruin the value of my own posts, so i'm going to use a name to differentiate myself.


Isaacs proposed team looked pretty good on paper really, however i still think DJ/Balls isn't really enough rebounding wise and defensively for the 36ers.

There were so many times that the 36ers got absolutely murdered on the boards that i feel we really need more height, keeping just our two tall guys isn't going to really help much in that area...

The interesting thing however in Isaacs team is, it includes Barlow a pretty tall guy, and with Herbert and Carter defending, those guards/small forward might not be able to get some of the easy rebounds we've let them have. If DJ with the extended amount of time can collect 10-12 rebs per game, then i can see it possibly working.

If we're going to have rebounding/big defense as a bit of a liability, (similar to those years where we had Rychart/Maher/Farley), then we need to seriously get our guard situation right i'd say.

Dorsey i think is a bit of the x-factor in the team, watching him play against Adelaide, i have to say that could work well in this type of league.

Everytime i look at Isaacs proposed lineup, i like it more and more and it's very possible to win where rebounding/tall D is a bit of a liability, as the 36ers have shown in the past (finished 3rd/4th for a few years in a row).

However if it back fires, i don't know how much i can take of our team getting smashed so easily on rebounds. Especially when it was pretty clear from the beginning that we were undersized. Maybe hitting shots and better defense changes the perspective a lot!

PeterJohn, fixed up the display of your data slightly. Solidifies my preference of Carter over Bruce a bit. Hill's number is still a mystery as he's played a fair few minutes but on paper or even watching games you wouldn't always pick him as a net positive.

At this game , of our 4 point guards , I liked Bruce.
Somebody said, ' I'd like to mention that Aaron Bruce, another great point guard that Australia keeps producing, is doing a wonderful job at guarding Penney.'