WOW BSA making dumb rules and decisions.

Been happening for 20+ years.

I used to be a div 1 player and ref and I wouldn't get out of bed to help some of the idiots at BSA.

Sorry to sound bitter coz I love my sport and feel duty bound to support the kids but BASA make it impossible.

Gr8 post anon!

Folks, BSA has only existed for a few years. It's a different entity to BASA with different goals, different objectives and clearly, they're doing different things. We complain when they do nothing and when they do something. Strewth, are we ever happy? Credit to them for trying to move the sport forward.

How has it moved forward?

"how has it moved forward?"

By enforcing more training and accountability on refs.

This forum has been an never ending ref bitch session, yet the moment BSA starts to make the refereeing ranks more professional, forcing attendance at meetings, tiering the levels further to recognise those people making the effort, and actually expecting the refs to take some accountability.

I am not a ref basher at all (I used to be one and gave it away due to the abuse), and I am still heavily involved in the "other" side of the court side lines, but really, the original post sounds like one of the refs who this change is hoping to weed out.

The reason I posted this, is not because it tradionally was a choice to be part of panel or not, however forcing what used to be a choice onto people isn't exactly fair I don't think. I ref because I enjoy it, when I started reffing I didn't realise that I would get paid for it, however now days the money is useful, it does help allow me to go out with friends and things, helps pay for soicalising, while I want to improve, when I have gone to the couple of meetings, they to to be more of a attempt to improve things and not achieve anything or thats the opinion and the impression I devloped from those meetings anyway. But one of the main issues I have with this new change is they didn't to my knowledge do a poll or anything asking how people would feel about such a change. I can live a little with the changed to the referee 1C thing etc however forcing the meetings? I don't see how that really helps the training, anyway it always was if you are ready to make the commitment to the panel, it was a choice and something you were prepared to commit to, however as the person above me posted. They are basicly going to be loosing alot of umpires to social or they'll go work else where. As a result of this BSA will have no choice but to bring up the green shirts, because they are basiclly almost having to do that at the moment, with the amount of gaps they have, also who knows at this rate it might not be two green shirts on one game it might be a green shirt doing a solo.

It is a shame when some people find it easier to be negative rather than constructive and positive. Obviously we have comments from a disgruntled referee who may believe he/she has not been given the opportunity they deserve. So rather than discuss the issue like an adult they hide behind rash and ranting comments without really checking the details. Or could it be that they are just not at the level of experience or skill that they think they are. I have a fare idea who this negative person is and I will further investigate their lack of team spirit.

There is no perfect solution. Players pay a fee in the hundreds of dollars every season to play for their club. They then pay again to play on the night. If any referee believes paying $15 per year towards insurance cover and education to improve not only themself but others is a drama then maybe they should consider another activity. We have a team (club, organisation, group, body) of very dedicated referees but as with any organisation we also have a few who find it easier to hide behind "Anonymous" comments in social media rather than discuss constructive outcomes.

I am willing to sit down and discuss any idea (with any person) no matter how silly it may sound that will improve, educate and increase the skill level of any referee. The main aim of this new initiative is the offer another avenue for education and development to all referees that has not been available in the past. The previous BASA spent time and effort on education for the more senior referees. Its success can be seen in current NBL/WNBL and FIBA referee Phill Haines. Basketball SA has taken the approach to offer opportunity to all referees at all levels of development. If a referee chooses not to take up this offer then that is their choice. However the referee who chooses not to use these development opportunities will not receive the rewards they offer.

If a referee considers 5 theory seasons for year (of about 2 hours each) + a small exam + putting their education to the test for about 3 nights per fortnight on-court and a small contribution towards accident insurance and development is too difficult - then your reward may be achieved in another sport. If you play the sport then I feel sorry for your team mates as this kind of attitude reeks of self importance and displays a lack of understanding and support for anyone but yourself.

In future years (developing a referee takes years not months) and numbers improve (as they will but it takes time) any "Big Heads" will gradually be overstepped by the positive and constructive referee.

ah Mike.....my boss pays for my insurance!!!!!!!.

The best place to learn is on the court, starting at social level and being taught by more senior umpires.

Also having competent umpire in charge would help rather than some that are wondering around with orange shirts on.

I saw an orange shirt enter the court during the under 18 boys grand final and speak to the two guys umpiring on friday night, they then changed the way they umpired the rest of the game (not having a go at either umpire, thought they did a good job) the feed back could have waited until the end of the game.

Just because you can pass a witten test doesnt make you a good umpire either!

Improvement is a slow and often pain staking process and a numbers game.

Maybe the knockers will apply for court supervisor role and we will see you at our education session on Sunday 3rd April 9am. The first in planned on going development for those with a wish to help and improve referees. Like referees - differing levels of skill and experience. Similar to referee development oportunities being offered.

Try joining most organisations as a member, player, referee etc and the majority have a fee that is pooled and put towards insurance cover, improving services, education, awards etc etc etc.

Try not performing at work - you maybe offered development and education at the expense of the boss but if you fail then your out the door. If you would like us to consider this as a job with all the benefits you may or maynot receive then complete a tax office form and we will begin to take out tax. $15 or $25 membership would be a cheaper option.

Try helping rather than knocking - its a better and happier learning curve.

Mike, as a former player and current junior coach I read your points. Let me say I think the approach you show is outstanding!! Setting higher standards for referees, creating a culture around excellence and development and asking them to show a small financial commitment.

Refereeing should be considered a vocation (Something you do not for money), a priveledge, by 99% of referees it's not an occupation.

I'm amazed by the number of referees that feel like coaches/players owe them something. Referee for the love and your personal development, not the money. The money is a bonus that goes with it.

Players have to pay to play, they don't get paid. Before you say if there was no referees tehre would be no game, the same can be said for players. I can appreciate that referees do and should get paid but to whinge about $15 for insurance is just typical for these refs that think they're more important to the game than they are.

Most referees are great that we have in terms of wanting to develop the game and themselves. Take pride in the fact that a structure is being introduced that will introduce an aptmosphere of excellence around your VOCATION.

I consider these whingers the same as coaches whining about coach registration. Take pride in your vocation and take pride in the aptmosphere of excellence being introduced around you coaching kids striving for excellence.

To the original poster.

If you have an issue with the changes why not discuss it with Mike? You've come on here having a whinge without understanding what they mean for you. Why not clarify them first, then digest the info, and then work out what it means for you.

A principle I always try to live by is "seek first to understand, then to be understood". You might have benefitted from utilising this before you posted.

Mike, I don't know you, however I appreciate the difficulties in making change. I once heard Bill Cosby say "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please anyone".

Mike, I just so you know, I have changed several of the major details so that I wouldn't be ID'ed no this was something to ask others what they thought about it. I don't have an big problem paying an extra $15 as a once of thing, if you read that in the brackets before. No the thing that annoyed me the most, was no email stating that a new panel from coming out with details such as one of the letters paragraph about

"As of season 2011/12 membership will be compuslory for all officials who referee at any level of Basketball SA competition District or Social."

That quote there is straight from the letter its self. The forcing this onto people part, because I hadn't heard anything about this so this is quite sudden without any warning that suddenly it is longer an option to be panel. Panel in my opinion was something to look up to if you wished to advance, however now it feels as if it is nothing speical to look forward to. To me that is a bit of a slap in the face.

Also just a FYI I didn't accautly get any letter on the day it was a within the last few weeks, the details I changed was because I didn't want to have to deal with this, especially in the mood I am currently in with BSA, call that childish or what ever you will, but this is my personal opinion and I'm handling it how I think would be best. And the reason I mainly posted this on here is to find out if I'm the only one upset by these changes that I hadn't heard anything about, leading up to this. It was quite a shock to read this without any warning for myself.

I don't ref for the money, but it does take up alot of time, while I do enjoy umpiring, I don't think forcing some of these changes onto people without a warning is very professional either. But yet again that may just be my opinion on it with other disagreeing. I wouldn't say I'm completely "disgruntled referee" against BSA but some of the changes aren't exactly straight forward in my opinion.

Also Mike saying you can't see why others find it hard to be positive about things that they disagree with is also a one sided thing, the way the letter was worded, if it is not compulsory to join this new Panel 4 thing, its twisited words into wording and sentences that I associate with "Laywer talk" trying to cover one's ass by being techinal about it while twisiting words into confusing sentences when read as a whole seem to give an entirely different impression to what is apperently trying to be made.

One more thing to finish off this post, I don't have a problem with training, again its the sudden no warning about this change thing. At least with the changes to the refs level I had some warning it was possibly coming, perphas try and spread the word a bit more about possible changes before saying this is 100% no chance of change coming into effect?

Moses
"STREWTH" I haven't heard that since the last time I played under 14's in Vic and I am 50 now.
Does that mean you are 50 as well? or has it come back?

Strewth? Cobber, that never went out. Has remained cool along with knee-high ugg boots. People tell me I'm wrong but I'll fight the power to the end.

50? 50! Frown ....

Everyone knows Moses is 49 years and 11 months......

Mike. You might want to research the whole aspect of a job compared and hobby. You will find that some referees are in fact earning assessable income however others are not.

In relation to insurance. This is an interesting topic because the referees paid or unpaid (tax or no tax) are regarded as 'employees' under workers comp.
The cost seems a little excessive.

Personally I would pay an annual registration fee because that I approach refereeing as my sport. Not sure this applies to the guy doing 4 games straight of social. I am not sure that fill the holes in the roster really care about grading etc, they care about the money normally and keeping fit.

/rant

Personally I would have thought someone with such a broad area of responsibilities would have better things to do then argue with an annonymous person online.

Mike you say you believe you know who the original poster is, well why didn't you contact him/her personally instead of getting into a slanging match on a forum?

Why is it ok for you to attack a referee online when all referees have been told not to post about referees, clubs, coaches, players etc online, either on hoops or facebook or twitter.

Where's the referee education you're employed to do? What grading courses are being run? How many new referees have you brought into the fold and how many are you aiming for in 2011? How do you plan to keep them when others haven't been able to? By attacking them online when clearly they're just confused and uninformed?

Why is the development manager doing rosters for a country championship? How is managing a country championship part of the role of a development manager?

Every day, every hour of your time should be focused on finding, training and retaining referees. Surely that's what you were employed for and that's what basketball needs you to do.

"You shouldn't be on the forum. PS, answer these half-dozen questions on the forum."

Isaac I have no issue with Mike reading hoops, or even posting.

My issue was about the content of the post, which some would suggest borders on cyber bullying.

And I certainly don't expect answers to my questions, but wanted to make the point that Mike and BSA should be focusing on things which will grow refereeing numbers and improve the standard and not attacking individuals on an online forum.

Pallas

A lot of companies now have an online social media presence.

What if Mike took time out of his own personal time to respond? How do you know he did it during his work hours?

Even if he did, kudos to him. Great to know BSA is trying to be more transparent and communicate with fans/refs etc through this forum which these days has a lot of cred in the hoops world (it took Isaac a lot of effort to get it there!)

I also think he was entitled to respond to what was pretty much a personal attack on him.

Dear Mr Gibson

I have absolutly no idea who you are or what your qualifications are to be given the presumably paid position of a referee development officer ( or even if that is what position you hold) but to post on a public forum --

"I have a fare idea who this negative person is and I will further investigate their lack of team spirit."

Is just so gob-smackingly naive, that it suggests to me that, irrespective of your probable good intentions or previous outstanding service to the sport, your posting has not done yourself much of a favour, nor one to the sport here in SA- just what were you thinking ???

Particularly if it is read by anyone who may have been thinking about themselves or their family members officiating basketball in this state.

I wonder how many existing referees are on your list of "questionable citizens " and who you may approach in this manner in order to weed out this offender .

Exactly how do you USUALLY go about investigating a lack of team spirit within the officiating fraternity in SA ??/ - call a "code Red" !!! - (apologies to Jack Nicholson)

I do know Mike, and while we have had a checkered past on the court, I honestly believe he has the best interests of Basketball at heart.

For a number of years, disgruntled referees of various ages have been getting on here and airing their grievances publicly on Hoops.

They have every right to do so, but these referees must understand that the majority of basketball players will not view umpire whinging with much sympathy.

If I have a beef with my employer or an organisation I volunteer with, I have a number of choices, 3 of which are:
1 - Quit.
2 - Call or email the employer or organisation and discuss my issue.
3 - Get on the net and vent my frustration.

The effectiveness of the three options above varies.
Personally, option 3 historically hasn't been effective for referees posting on hoops.

I think the best response from someone in Mike's position is an accommodating but brief response quickly outlining some key points/intentions then inviting personal discussion off-forum. Attaching emotion is a risk, as is writing anything lengthy - more you write, the more someone will find to pick at.

Bit of passion from a ref... don't hear too many complaint ATM.

Pallas - put up or shut up!!!!

I'm with Kobe<, I don't think you can class Mike's post as cyberbullying...

"Cyberbullying is the use of cell phones, instant messaging, e-mail, chat rooms or social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter to harass, threaten or intimidate someone..."

please note:
(1)"...The problem is compounded by the fact that a bully can HIDE BEHIND an electronic veil, DISGUISING his or her TRUE IDENTITY."
Edited for brevity.

reference: http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci1023061,00.html

"Cyberbullying is commonly defined as the use of information and communication technologies to support repeated and deliberate hostile behaviour intended to harm others. It is sometimes used as an extension to other forms of bullying, and can result in the target of bullying experiencing social, psychological and academic difficulties.

"Children and young people can also be affected by hostile behaviour that does not fit the definition of cyberbullying. For example, a one off insensitive or negative remark or joke online or via text IS NOT cyberbullying by definition. However, the impact can be widespread due to the rapid dissemination and the relative permanency of the message sent. For the purposes of brevity, both cyberbullying and other hostile cyber behaviours will be referred to as cyberbullying for the remainder of this section."

Reference:
http://www.cybersmart.gov.au/Schools/Common%20cybersafety%20issues/Cyberbullying.aspx

I would suggest that Mike has been subjected to far more on-line harrassment (possibly by Pallas and/or others) on this forum than his meagre two posts on one thread.