we don't want him.

Ballinger is contracted to the 36ers until the end of the 2011-12 NBL season. How would that fit into Jess Wagstaff's claim?

If true, id have mixed reactions, as Ballinger is our best player and a guy i would like to keep, but losing him would force us to change direction and free up some cap space for recruiting so could end up being a good chance for the 36ers to totally rebuild, which is sort of needed.

Not sure I'm just telling you what he said why don't you ask him .

Sorry if it came across like I was asking you about Wagstaff's plans Rooboy. I was just throwing it out there for dicussion. Making a claim like that while the guy is still under contract is pretty bold. Wonder what the background to it is?

Fantatsic news if true! 36ers need a complete makeover start at the 3rd string star player and work the way down the roster. Fear the reaper 6er players, surely no one is safe if Ballinger isnt!

I thought it was a team option next season? Anyway, hopefully we can release him and rebuild. He can score when he's on a roll but other than that he's not what the Sixers need going forward.

Also - he may produce the most points but he's hardly the Sixers best player. He's soft on defense, relies on other people getting him an open look, has average ball skills in the lane and doesn't crash boards. I don't care if you're a jump shooter, on defense if you're 6'10 in a small league there's no excuse not to gobble up defensive rebounds.

I thought Isaac said awhile back that Balls is contracted for next season along with Dowdell and DJ?

Interesting if Wagstaff really said that though! I could see the Sixers and Balls mutually deciding to go their separate ways after the last two seasons.

Balls knows he hasn't got a lot of seasons left and I'm sure he wants to be part of a winning team again before he is past it. Not sure that he is an ideal fit for the type of team I think Marty wants either.

I guess all will be revealed in due course.

That would be good for him, he would be in a situation that we had/need here with luke/balls tandem. Personally i dont get all the hate he gets, i think its just him being out of position all year.

How long do u all wanna rebuild for?

'Balls knows he hasn't got a lot of seasons left and I'm sure he wants to be part of a winning team again before he is past it. Not sure that he is an ideal fit for the type of team I think Marty wants either.'

Leaving Adel to Sydney makes him part of a winning team?

I hope Marty has something up his sleeve cause this just gets worse!!

Well... we've all been blaming the rest of the team for the lapse in performance and haven't even looked at the apparent "Marquee Player" we have.

If he's going to the Kings, then Balls must have the feeling he's either in the targeting reticle or he's getting more cash there.

Balls is gone. Under contract, but the word around the league is that Marty doesn't want him. Expect a 'termination by mutual consent' or something to that effect. Dunno about the Kings getting him, but I'm sure there'd be a few clubs who would want him.

If true it could be a blessing in disguise.

I would prefer he stays, but if he goes it's going to be an interesting offseason. Surely they will have a complete clean out. I can't see Holmes getting another year unless he signs for next to nothing.

Hopefully they put some money forward to guys like Luke Schenscer & Adam Gibson (I'm fairly sure both are yet to be resigned). That would be a reasonable start. Go with 1 import and throw bigger money at the higher end Aussie guys.

As has been said, he may be our best scorer, but the rest of his game is not impressive. The only thing is that if we release him, we really need to look at the entire side due to the performaces this year.

I see Ballinger as the same as KB. KB is rated as one of the best imports we have had however everyone looks past his defense and he was probably a worse defender then Ballinger. The only difference is that KB had a great team while Ballinger has no one. Both will be seen as great Sixers Imports in my eyes.

Clarke better have something up his sleeve if he is to let Ballinger go and they better not have to pay him out for the season giving us $150-$200k less to spend next season!

The 6ers are already at the bottom of the ladder, something needs to change. They have tried changing coaches and that hasn't seen much of an improvement.

Maybe, just maybe a completely new direction is required to move forward, and a change in cattle is required.

Given Balls is an Aussie his loss would be huge. If we recruit two stud imports, a legit Centre and have Balls we can immediately challege for the play offs.

Good Aussie players are like gold and Balls falls into this category so would need to be repelaced by someone of the same quality otherwise it will be a backwards step IMO.

Lets not forget last season's rumours of him going to Melbourne. Until the fat lady sings, it's all rumour

I agree he is a huge asset to the team and is probably the best Power Forward (note power forward Clarke!) in the league. To lose him would be a huge mistake as it would just disadvantage us more.

how can he be the best player when he can't create his own shot, does not lead as a captain, might score 20 points but gives up 40 on the defensive end.

not the player to build the team around that has been tried in the past few seasons and has fallen flat. Thank him for his time and move him on IMO.

KB may have been a liability defensively but could create from nothing and had a never save never attitude and attitude that took a loss very badly.

Ballinger IMO is an entirely different kettle of fish. Might be a good cog in a functioning wheel but can not be the vital cog to hold the wheel together.

I would only be happy with this move if Newley or Ingles are on their way back otherwise who does Clarke think he is going to get that is better?

"If we recruit two stud imports, a legit Centre"

We recruited 4 imports this season, how did that work out?

It's all so easy on paper, but the reality is much, much different.

At the next home game, watch Ballinger's game when he's not shooting open looks. Having someone at the 4 who can't defend their matchup or rebound/box out aggressively is really a problem for us.

So what is your solution Bobbytables?

Cut balls? No imports given 4 haven't worked out. Lets just recruit the AIS mens team!

Jake don't say that as Clarke might read this and get ideas! :P

Jake, if the AIS men's team is your idea, then you're a douchebag.

BobbyTables brings up the point. Cut him, then split the funding to warrant 2 high calibre replacements. That's enough money to offer a decent paycheck to more local talent, but have enough left over to increase the amount of spending that you would offer to imports.

Ballinger gets left alone because he's the marquee guy and the scorer. The guys who score the points don't get heat; only the cast around them. Take away the primary scorer and see who steps up to bat. You could see a few guys getting 20+ppg.

Fred summed it up perfectly IMO.

Balls wont leave Adelaide unless his asked AND paid to. Period.

I don't see too many on that team scoring 20+ Big M. Half of the problem is Ballinger is playing the 5 spot and against some of those legitimate centres he struggles as does DJ. That's why we need to bring in a decent big man who can handle them and allow Balls to move back to a 4 spot.
And remember, he's an Aussie now, and I don't think there's that many Aussies who are as good as Ballinger, he's not that easily replaced.
I think Brett's comments in today's paper hit the nail on the head. Marty likes playing all 10 players and his team has been picked that way. We would have one of the deepest benches in the league but we also have 9 average players. Instead of spending $150k each on 3-4 players we have spent $70k-80k on 6-7 players. It's now a 40 minute game, so there is no need to spread the time as much. A stud player should easily be able to play 32 minutes a game. Have your role players come in for 2-3 minutes a quarter unless they either get hot/foul trouble/match ups change. Sydney played maybe 7 players the other night.
The only time this works in our favour is when our second five is on against their second five and we have taken advantage of this, but it doesn't happen for long.
Compare how many players per team have played over 600 minutes for the season...

NZ- 5
Perth- 4 (would be 6 if Redhage didn't get injured and Brown was there the whole season)
Townsville- 5
Wollongong- 4 (add Sav if he played at least one more game)
Cairns- 4
GC- 3
Melbourne- 1
Sydney-1 (Possibly 3 if you add the imports together)
Adelaide- 1 (Probably 2 if you add Devries/Winders minutes onto Shannon's)

Now does anyone see a pattern here???

Excellent Post "The Brad"! Clarke take note!

The Brad, part of that assumption of players not scoring 20+ is because they're not given a chance to.

Great post anyhow man.

Ben fitz tweeted about this today. Kings if your going to cheat... I assume its about balls.

Do we seriously think any star player is going to sign up to come to Adelaide? Bottom of the heap, and you can bet the informed word around the NBL and amongst potential imports would be don't touch Adelaide with a barge pole for a host of reasons.

Hope to be proven wrong - love the sixers and thought they looked OK at the beginning of the season. Love to know the dynamics of the inner sanctum, could be a telling factor in the unravelling of this season's dream.

Come on Jack, you're always in da know!!

The Brad - great post. Totally agree.

Balls wants out - hates coach!

Coach wants scapegoat - blame Balls!

If i had to decide between coach & player right now i'd choose player!

Ballinger + Khazzouh + Madgen + a couple of half decent imports combined with a few decent role players = contender.

6ers without Ballinger = spoon.

Anon. Please explain how Forman is killing Balls at PF. As good as Oscars been, Forman's team is killing Balls team because of
1) Gordie V Clarke (a matchup thats the equivalent of Garry Ervin V Zac Delany at training)
2) The Hawks have Irvin , Sav and Davidson to take the heat of Oscar the 6ers have ?????? not much really to take the focus off Balls.
Put Balls in the existing Hawks squad next season and you would almost have the pre season favourites.

Would have to be a mutual thing , otherwise it couldn't happen.
Clarke - a teaching coach of juniors.
Ballinger - a top tier american import with a college degree, now naturalised.
Frustration on re-teaching. Aesthetic disagreements.

I agree with snakepi. Forman is still a limited player, but when surrounded with good talent and placed in the right system it allows him to focus on doing what he is best at - nailing relatively open jumpshots.

Personally I think the Ballinger haters are nuts. No, the guy is not Kobe so he can't still get it done efficiently with half a team's defence hanging off him, but with just a little quality help the guy has proven to be deadly, and he has never relied on athleticism to do it so another year in age isn't going to impact him as badly as it would others.

Kings are going for D Martin too which I found a bit confusing, figuring they'd run Dickel and Cooper as a pretty decent combo. When Dickel's played, they've been a better team.

But they'd assume Martin is the league's best PG and put out the feelers, even risking a fine from the NBL for it. No one can prove much unless the player complains and is a player ever going to complain and risk giving up contract offers in the future?

Ingles won't budge, would simply be on too much money in Europe. Newley would be more of a chance though. And Rush may be just about ready to head back. Rumour is Gibson is wanting to leave the Blaze also; Melbourne might be his target (gf is there), but I think Adelaide should go for him and reunite the Gibson/Carter Dragons' championship backcourt.

Isaac, who would you get to run the point? Would you start both or have carter backup Gibson?

Considering how Gibbo has been offensively this year, you could have Gibbo as a combo-guard at the 2-spot and have him rack up that 15ppg you'd want while being a reliable passer. Stick Carter at the point.

How can you let Ballinger go and be happy about it? There are times I have been frustrated with his game but lets face it, he is the best player the team has and the last 2 seasons has hardly seen a successful recruiting campaign. In the last 2 seasons we have not been capable of bringing in anyone the calibre of Ballinger so why risk a replacement for him. Unless you go for an import replacement (dodgy at best after our last 2 years and given Clarke's success rate this season) there is no one here that would successfully replace him and if there was, I doubt Clarke would be the one to entice him.

If Ballinger has another year option but he himself wants out, as a club I would be excercising the option of keeping him unless they got the exact replacement they need which would be beneficial to the team. Unless that happens, the club needs to hold on to him. The only problem I see with that is Ballinger would be on an already agreed salary for the next year and if he wanted out but the club would not release him, then the attitude for next season could be a huge liability. The only thing that would protect that would be a contracted salary subject to performance but I doubt that is in place.

Anon 18.05 -- 16-3
Great post highlighting my also frustration with Shannon in particular standing holding the b---y ball and by time ready to pass Ballinger etc have had themselves free 2 -3 times and are now covered or it is all jammed up.

Marty, Gibson to start, Carter off the bench. Daly as 11th man. And a bit of overlap at times (a bit like the way Wollongong run Ervin and Martin together a bit).

Gibson has played a lot of minutes this year and his 3P% is not brilliant but must be respected by defenders. However he plays D (DPOTY recently), is a known quantity and has served on a couple of championship teams now. Also a Boomer. If Adelaide did not already have plans to try for him, I'd assume they have another plan (can't imagine Dellavedova would be leaving college in a hurry?).

Carter is also a streaky three-point shooter, but plays defense, gets steals, etc. He's the keeper out of this year's PGs at Adelaide, IMO. Get those two early in the off-season and an important position is sorted.

Where it gets more difficult is SG and SF - Ng, Hill, Herbert, Creek in the mix and we'd probably need to add more there too. Creek has to be kept on potential and points value. I like the other three also but I'm not sure they can fit. Hill probably has the higher ceiling, but we desperately need outside shooters and Gibson, Carter and Creek aren't 35%+ 3P shooters. On Herbert's side is defence and strength for a guard. Also has a championship under his belt.

Wouldn't want to see Ng gone unless we added decent shooters elsewhere.

Isaac, and that is why I wouldn't want to be a coach!

I think you also need to throw an import SG/SF into that mix as well, to further complicate things.

Yep. Import or someone like Newley was what I meant by "probably need to add more there too." I would be talking to Newley now or weeks ago to see how he was liking it OS and what sort of money would make him play here. Rush or Barlow too.

If it was possible, this would be a sound start:

Gibson/Carter
Newley/(Ng or Hill or Herbert)

That's two Boomers in the first two spots.

EC covers some good points on Ballinger. If Clarke is keen and Ballinger is keen, then put the right pieces around him and be sure of it this time. If either or neither is, no point dragging it out to the detriment of the program and player. We have had success without Ballinger in the past, and other teams are having success without him now. Once upon a time the Hawks lost Balls to Adelaide, slumped and then recovered after all (and who would have expected it to be with Tragardh and then Forman - both not exactly in demand prior to hitting Wollongong).

Early to be speculating, but I think Balls would be good at the Kings with Khazzouh a monster rebounder and Knight (if he plays on) as another leader beside Khazzouh, etc.

It'd all start by seeing where he and Clarke were at.

Here is the team I would be trying to assemble next year;

PG - Gibson/Carter/Daly(DP)
SG - Newley/Ng/Creek
SF - Rush/Herbert/Creek
PF - Balls/Import (can play PF & C)
C - Johnson/Import (See PF)

Dickel's +/- in games he's played this season:

08 Jan 2011 - Sydney vs Townsville (-4) (lost by 7)
21 Jan 2011 - Sydney vs Wollongong (+13) (won by 10)
26 Jan 2011 - Melbourne vs Sydney (+1) (won by 18)
30 Jan 2011 - Gold Coast vs Sydney (+3) (lost by 3)
06 Mar 2011 - Sydney vs Melbourne (+19) (won by 9)
13 Mar 2011 - Sydney vs Adelaide (+9) (won by 4)

5-2 record. Both losses by single figures, and one was on the road.

I agree with going after Newley and Gibson, both also have a history with Clarke at the AIS, so hopefully that helps us in recruiting them.

I also remember Clarke mentioning wanting an Aussie PG and 2 boomers in the program with 2 imports to be successful, so Newley and Gibbson would fill that, if thats what he was hinting at.

Would he be aiming for something like, assuming the Ballinger to kings is accurate

Schenscher or IMPORT (4/5)/Johnson
IMPORT (athletic versatile 4/3)/Creek
Herbert/Hill
Newley/Ng or Bruce
Gibson/Carter

If we can keep Ballinger and still land Schenscher, Gibson and Newley go with something like

Schenscher/Johnson
Ballinger/Creek
IMPORT (3/4)/Herbert
Newley/Hill or Ng or Bruce or Daly if tight on points
Gibson/Carter

Jonno, great lineup but pipe-dreams as far as affordability.

Newley/Luke/Balls would break the cap easily. Gibbo would be worth a mint also.

Points wise you'd have (approx):

Luke - 10
Balls - 10
Newley - 9
Gibbo - 9

I'd love that lineup but don't like the chances.

Jonno, I think either line-up is short one big. Creek is not that tall and doesn't play big. If one of the starters goes down short-term or is in foul trouble, Johnson starts and then your first big sub is Creek.

I know pushing Creek to SF knocks out one of the Herbert/Hill/Ng crew (assuming another player is there too), but I can't see any other choice. None are PGs or PFs, and it would risk another season to start two of them unless the other three starters were outstanding.

Can't see why a returning Newley would be anything less than a 10 too.

I dont mid it being small if say Schenscher (if we get him) and Ballinger (or import PF) play say 30 mins each, id be happy to have Johnson play 20 mins as back up pf/c.

This leaves Creek to battle Herbert and Hill(or Ng or Bruce) for minutes in the (backup) sg/sf rotation, which would keep training competitive and simply who ever is producing best plays the most of the minutes.

I agree with not using Creek at PF as he is too small, but yea would use Johnson as back up PF and the import 3/4 (from my 2nd line up) there and ocassioanly Creek or Hill if we want a fast small ball line up. If Johnson struggles at PF we would need to play Ballinger (or IMPORT) 35 mins and go small for 5 mins a game with Creek or Hill at PF, not ideal but i think would be ok.

Salary cap may be a stretch but if we only have one import in either line up, its no more stacked than other current top 4 teams IMO, so could be acheivable especially if we sign our bench on min or near min contracts.

Points cap i think it probably is around 4 or 5 over on 2nd thoughts (having a quick guess at their values) so we could put in Daly as our back up pg and retain 1 of Carter, Ng, Hill or Bruce as the other back up guard and that would probably fit or be close to fitting on the points cap.

Having Daly as our 10th man would be good as it means we could probably reduce our rotation to 8 or 9 without too many hassles as being in the 10 would be a step up for Daly so wouldnt think he would complain playing low minutes, and tell him he has to out train the others and earn his minutes, which is good for the team and his development and hey if he does develop into the next brett maher or top sa player atleast he is on our squad for once, i think most fans are sick of losing the good young SA players to other teams.

So id revise my line up as, with guessed points values

C Schenscher (10) (if we miss him get Mottram or Vanderjagt (7))/Jonhson (7)
PF IMPORT pf/sf or Ballinger (10)/Creek (1)
SF IMPORT sf/pf (10)/Herbert (5)
SG Newley (9)/Carter (or Bruce or Ng or Hill) (6)
PG Gibson (9)/Daly (1)

=68 points if my maths and points guestimates are correct

Id play the starters 30 mins each, with Johnson playing 20 mins as back up PF/C, Herbert and Creek playing 10 mins as back up SF/SG, Carter (or Bruce) 10 mins back up PG, with Daly playing occasionaly and if he manages to jump ahead of say Carter and take the back up PG mins, Carter would then play minimally or play some mins in back up sg.

To me thats a fairly solid 9 man rotation and has most things covered as far as 3pt shooting (herbert, Gibson, Newley), defense (Gibson,Carter, Herbert, Creek), Penetration (Newely, Gibson, Creek), Rebounding (Schenscher, IMPORT 4/3 or Balls should hold their own between them)

if the line up above coudlnt fit 2 imports salary wise, run with a SF line up of Herbert/Hill, leaving Carter, Bruce and Ng to battle for the back up sg spot.

The guy Adelaide should focus on is Dave Barlow. Very good chance he wil be back in the NBL next year and will give the froncourt athleticism, versatility and shooting that has been missing.

Ballinger, import, Barlow, Herbert, Bruce
Johnson, Holmes, Creek, Ng, Carter

That is a shocking team Paul!

"other teams are having success without him now."

This is what I think to myself every time someone says that "we can't get rid of Ballinger!!!1!eleven"

I think priority should definitely be looking at who we can bring in, Schensch, Newley, Gibson, whoever...then look at retaining current players to fill the gaps.

Here's the quote mentioned by anon above. Ballinger:

"I'm not planning to leave," he said.

"We've just bought a house here.

"There's no doubt for everyone involved, it's been frustrating and I'm not just talking about the win-loss record. We've had injuries and guys not working out import-wise. Not having our core team from the start of the season is very frustrating."

Ballinger said there had been no lack of effort or commitment from this season's crop of 36ers.

"And that makes where we are even more frustrating," he said.

I found a link to that show the comments were apparently made and it was definitely said but i think you'll find it was Drew Williamson that said it.
I'm sure Wagstaff was happy to take credit though

My feeling on Newley, and it is just that, is that he will stay in Europe if he can keep getting jobs with big clubs who play in the major comps (Euroleague, ACB and maybe Eurocup). If those offers dry up I think he would be very tempted to try his hand briefly in the US and then come home if nothing eventuated.

I dont know the internal working of Vilnius, but based on output I would be a little surprised if they offered him an import spot again next year.

I think we should speak with Schenscher and see if he would come home and what coin he would demand. However, given that he would likely be expensive, Marty overlooked him this season and he is having success witht the Crocs I dont like our chances of convincing him to come home so I wouldnt be focussing all of our attnetion towards him.

I would be focussing on Rush, Newley, Gibson and getting the imports right. Rush would be a chance I would think and played with Carter in Sweden. Gibson apparently wants out from the Blaze and has played with Carter before also (Championship with the Dragons). Also, Gibson is a Boomer and with Marty the assistant coach of the Boomers may have a connection there especially with selection for the upcoming London Olympics coming up?

The same goes for Newley although I think he may be the hardest to entice back home. Still, there is the Boomer connection with Marty and Adelaide is his home town....and lets face it, he would be the face of the club. If we cant get Newley back we need to fill the SG role in his style with an import.

I'm not sure if there are any college centres looking to return home but maybe that is an option? Otherwise I would maybe look at filling this spot with the import that played for NZ last season - cant remember his name though (having a mental blank)?

PG - Gibson/Carter/Daly(DP)
SG - Newley or Import/NG
SF - Rush/Herbert/Creek
PF - Balls/Rush/Johnson
C - Import(mentioned above)/Johnson

I think that would be a pretty versatile line up with a few players that could play numerous spots?

Not technically allowed to talk to Schenscher until free agency officially begins. Makes it difficult. Crocs may already be talking to him about an extension. Adelaide could really only risk trying to get word to him via friends, etc. Hard to negotiate in that way.

The import you're probably thinking of is Rick Rickert. Signed with the Blaze last off-season before getting injured. Currently in Europe averaging 8 PPG and 4 RPG.

Only 3 players are signed for next year.

Ballinger, Johnson and Creek.

Yeah, Rickert is the one I am thinking of Isaac - thought of his name while I was out at lunch! :-)

I think he would be alright....knows the league and hustles hard for rebounds etc..

How many minutes is he playing in Europe to get that stat line?

17 from memory.

I dont think he has signed with an NZNBL team, and if he doesnt that would indicate he has abandoned that idea. Realistically, if the Breakers dont want him he cant get it done without sacrificing a season and the income that generates.