Whatever medals there are for MVPs in the ABL, just give them to Jacob now after that performance. Under pressure, off balance, whatever, his shots were going in and he is at the top of his game. I'm assuming that Eastern play North next, I don't know what North/Hawkes can do to stop Jacob.

Pasadena was packed thicker than any game I've seen since the Arizona contest and while Eastern fans were all over the place, Sturt jumped out to a 16-2 lead in the first quarter on perfect shooting from Oscar, Gower and James-Martin. Jacob had missed his first shot at the other end, but Eastern pulled backed and started making their shots too. At half-time, Jacob had 25 and was carrying the Mavericks even more than usual. For Sturt, Oscar and Gower had 10, Bauer and Tommy J had 8. Sturt 51, Eastern 53.

After the break, while Eastern were looking in control, Sturt didn't look done quite yet. In my opinion, the Mavs (besides Holmes and Davis) were playing at their best and didn't have more (Goodenough and Warhurst are unlikely looking basketballers, but they play well), while Sturt could've expected a bit more from the talent they were putting on the court. Yet the Eastern squad kept at it and held a lead of up to around 13 for much of the second half. Brad Davis seemed to score many of his points in the third quarter.

The two defining points for me were the 3-pointer from Eastern that took the lead from 4 to 7. It was the type of tight contest where 7 was the first step towards a blow-out. To the Sabres credit, they got it back later on in the fourth quarter to 5 after outside shooting from Wilkey. At this point, a potential off-balance drag of the foot from Holmes wasn't called, the ball made it out to the arc and Eastern had the 3 for an 8 point lead.

The tip on this forum of Eastern by less than ten proved to be on the money.

For Eastern, Jacob was looking like last season with the Sixers was definitely no accident. If he plays and shoots like that at the Dome, Adelaide have another 20 PPG player who would be deservedly asking for the ball. Many shots were the types that if they were coming from another player, you'd think "poor shot selection" but when they go in, what are you going to do?

Davis was also very good and the same from the Mav guards, Goodenough and Warhurst. I was surprised that Warhurst didn't start because I think Eastern lacks reliability in Trebilcock (haven't seen the stats, but struck me as an average game) and the bench forwards (Pounsett cleaned up under the basket in the fourth though and made sure Eastern got the win).

Simple calculations tell us that outside of Holmes, Davis, Warhurst and Goodenough, the rest of the Mavericks scored 15 and I'm pretty sure 6-8 points of that would've been Pounsett.

For Sturt, I think Oscar's game was elevated by Jacob being there. He made his early shots and was consistent on the boards and fully deserved his statline. He played close on Jacob for much of the game but I can't imagine there is anyone in the ABL that could've held Jacob under 40 in that game so I don't think he has any reason to be ashamed. 26 and 24 is a quality finish to what I think has been his best season in the ABL.

I thought that James-Martin played well in his minutes and Wilkey and Bauer also. A couple of unnecessary shots (like CT -- outside shot, no rebounders, full shot-clock, defence on you) from Bauer didn't help the cause but I think that just comes with the Bauer package -- when they go in, it's impressive.

Unfortunately I think Shepherd had a less-than-brilliant game in a do-or-die final and the weak point was simply his height when he penetrated. He was blocked a few times on drives despite his jumping ability and it would've been a different game if Williams had been in there instead. I think that Sturt have benefited from variation at the point, but when you lose Jason, you also lose 15+ and 8+ a game. Towards the end of the game, Bauer was moved to the point, Tom JM was brought on, etc, but I think the move was made a bit late.

Referees missed a couple of calls and called a few soft fouls, but they were against either team and I don't think it overly affected the game.

It came down to the ball going through Jacob's hands for most Mavs offenses: he makes tough shots, isn't scared to move with the ball, and has reliable hands. If you weren't at the game last night, then you missed a great atmosphere, excellent game and one of the individual performances of the season. I think Eastern will go on from here to trouble North.

To Sturt's credit, they went two games into the finals after a rough season missing Williams, Bauer and Shepherd at times through injury. It's never ideal to lose an important game, but if you have to do it, why shouldn't it be against the team sporting the league MVP and in front of a good crowd?

Very good summaries posters, and i agree with most of what was said.

Indeed, anyone who was there would agree that Jacob put in one of the all time great ABL/ABA/CBA performances.

Not to be out-shone, i felt Oscar had a very good game but unlike Jacob, does not have the team around him to get him the ball often enough to take 30+ FGA. Well played Oscar.

However, having said that, i do have an issue with one aspect of the game...

I decided to see for myself just how much Jacob dominates and in doing so took stats for him and Oscar (as comparison)for the duration. Here is what i recorded for both players...

Jacob.
42 points on 15/34 FG and 9/9 FT
7 assists.
30 rebounds.
2 steals.

Oscar.
26 points 10/19 FG.
16 rebounds.
2 blocks.

The official stat line after tha game read:

Jacob 42/27/7
Oscar 26 pts 24 REBOUNDS!!!

Now i am no professional statistician, but i have been around the game for long enough to understand what a rebound is and is not. Again, i want to stress i am not trying to detract from Oscar's effort, he never took the pressure off and played a great game! HOWEVER, i can't help but wonder how much of this HOME COOKIN' has been going on at Sturt???

I will admit, the game was fast and there is a chance i may have missed 2 or 3 boards here or there, but i can absolutely guarantee i did not miss 8!!!

Whats that on the stove? mmmm Mutton!

yes sir, yes sir, 3 bags full!

What about the women's game!!! Or should I say the last two minutes...which is when I rocked up. Scores tied, packed house, screaming fans, and that old 'Athol Park finals feel'. A buzzer-beating three point play, with the winning foul shot after the siren by Monique Bowley!!!! Anyone who can hit a foul shot under that much pressure has got litres of clutch running through their blood.

Sturt by a point.

Go women's basketball!!

The Sabres statisticians are generally pretty hard to impress with rebounds and blocks (mostly the latter) and that goes as much for the home team as that playing away. I think it's fair to say that I notice Oscar's stats before any others, but I generally underestimate (I would've guessed 22 and 20 for that game, for example, and high 40s and maybe 18 for Jacob). Has anyone got a specific definition of a "rebound"? If someone else gets a finger to the ball before you grab it, is it your board or a team rebound? If it's being juggled by 3 players and you come down with it, is it a rebound? A lot of that might've brought subjective calls on stats.

Great game from Oscar and a huge game from Jacob. Almost wished that it went another 4 quarters while the shots were falling!

The rebound has to go to whoever takes possession of the ball. Surely its not enough to just touch it, anyone can do that without even being in a position to control it.

So if someone gets a solid finger to it, but another player grabs it, the board goes to the second player rather than it being counted as a team rebound?

Yep, whoever gets control of the ball. If you tap and it's deemed you purposley intended to hit it to a team mate, then you get the rebound. Otherwise, whoever grabs it, gets the rebound.

FYI - the Guys game had 2 neutrel stats people (one South, one F'Ville).

Ok...as as stats caller, I will credit someone with a rebound if they control the posession of the ball.

Normally, that is the person who gets the clean "take away" (to use a new footy term), but sometimes someone will deflect the ball enough that I warrant they actually controlled the posession.

Also, in contested rebounds, which result in jump balls, whoever gets the ball from the posession arrow gets the rebound.

Isaac basically has the right idea...if say for example Oscar got on the glass, but only tipped the ball to say, for example, Gower, Gower would get the board as he gained effective control of the ball. The complete stats panel for ABL is hopefully getting some more formalised, centralised training during the off season, which will reduce stadium to stadium discrepancies.

joel goodenough has been so consitant with the way he has played this year and saturday night at pasadena was no exception. he is a good gaurd and will take control of the game when it gets tough and his defence isnt slack at all you could tell that by the way he shut down paul bauer. phil smythe was at the game and would of seen all of that and i think he should be considering joel for next season.

i agree. he is good at all of those thing but is lacking a little bit of a wow factor but if he is taken on by the sixers he will learn new and great things and will be a exciting player.

Please don't post under different names to support your point. And I don't think he would be considered by the Sixers, sorry!

Would he considered in a development squad?

Control of the ball is the basis for most stats calls. For instance Clarke of Southern Tigers gets his fair share of defensive balls by (to use a football lingo) reading the ball "off hands" and is credited with the rebound as a result. The stats bench for the mens game on Saturday comprised two from Forestville, one from South and I recognised that one was from Southern Tigers. Stats work is difficult when a player like Easterns No. 12 dominate a game, you have to be aware that there are other players on the court. The caller for the game was a young lad. I made some enquiries after the game and was told that he did an excellent job. He plays Under 20 for Forestville and sees the game from that perspective which could be different from a caller who played his last game many eons ago. Congratulations to Sturt for the way they handled the arrangements for the games (including the last shot in the girls game). Incidentally I like their new canteen. What is the story behind that? Why was the old one closed down? Over to you!

I was actually the input Operator on Saturday nights Men's game & can tell you I have no Sturt bias (they cut me from U14's many years ago!!!)

I had no problem with any of the calls made on Saturday & having done NBL stats for last 3 or 4 years I thought the young guy's from F/Ville's call was very good & as said he views the game from a players point of view & understands what comes next, stats wise.

I'm not sure whether people were separating Offensive & Defensive boards when they were doing their own counting, but from memory I can recall quite a few "Put Backs" for both Oscar & Jacob during the game and in at least one sequence each, they put up the first shot and tried to tap back in at least twice. Each one of these records a FGA & an Offensive Rebound.
Hopefully this may explain some of the discrepancy.
By the way, very enjoyable game to watch (which I can do for the most part, even while doing stats) and a sensational finish to the Women's game after a pretty desparate second half from both teams.

Well done to the Holmes Mavericks!!!! Jacob is increadible!! Totally unstoppable!
A force if you will!!

To the person who thinks that Goodenough is good enough. He is not! You are not good enough to post. Be gone from this place!!

Well done to the Sabres for a good season. You have had to battle through some tough injuries.

Eastern keep up the good work and I hope you guys take it up to north next week.

Dot man has been buying bags off me!

Dear Stats [and Others],
To clarify.
The stats i took were consistent with the official stats in the columns recording FGM/FGA therefore meaning that on the occasions where those players were making put back attempts, i counted each one as both a FGA [or FGM] and a rebound.

Also, with respect to Team Rebounds, i was hot on them too, not giving rebounds to either player when the ball was clearly in dispute and luckily ended up in their hands. I doubt any other stadium is a liberal on Team rbs [TR] as they might have been Saturday night. I know from checking the Tigers stats [only games i go to] that often TR is the leader in that category... Anyone with the official stats for the game, i would be interested to know the TR tally for each team. Perhaps the 8 TR for sturt ended up next to Formans name... mmmmm Home Cookin!!!

AGAIN! let me be very clear, both guys played their guts out and i think they clearly showed they are in a league of their own... NO DISRESPECT to Oscars performance, it was classy.

I don't think you can claim "Home Cookin" if neither of the stats people were from Sturt or Eastern. If you're confident of your count, you could question the ability of the statisticians, but not their bias. Either way, both Jacob and Oscar were big on the boards and looked to be shooting well.

After half-time when those two were playing (more or less) exclusively on each other, Jacob had 17 and 16, and Oscar had 16 and 15. 25 and 10 was a huge first half; look out North.

25 & 12 Isaac, come on now!!

I also don't think you can question the ability of the stats personnel, considering one was a 36ers Statistician (as they have said on here). A team rebound occurs when say... the ball goes out of bounds after a shot. So if Eastern shoot, no one touches it, Sturt get the ball, that's a team rebound to Sturt. Or if there's a foul on the rebound.... those sort of things.

They announced 25 and 10 at half-time, so it must've been 17 and 17 in the second half. Box score here.

The Eastern weakpoints are Trebilcock (4 and 4 in 27 minutes for a starting centre), and the bench besides Warhurst (Mason had 0 in 27 minutes and I don't think he should start ahead of Warhurst).

I'm not surprised that the Mavs had 9 steals to Sturt's 4 -- I remember from the last game at Pasadena that Goodenough and Warhurst are very good at just grabbing the ball cleanly from an opponent (not mid-dribble, when they're standing there). That sort of thing gets your team ahead when the shooting is even for both teams (Eastern 43.5%, Sturt 41%; Eastern took 9 more shots).

Eastern Mavericks   27 28 25 24  104 
Sturt Sabres        29 24 15 28   96 

joel goodenough...i have a lot of respect for the guy, but he has had what i am sure he would conisder his worst season for quite a while, and despite a good game on sat night, he is in no way in hte best 5 guards for the season, let alone ready for any nbl chatter....come on you mavs one eyed supporters....campbell v goodenough, would not be close

As far as Team Rebounds go, they are only to be used as Hoop Addict has suggested, ie only when the ball goes out of court etc. If the ball falls in your hands after being tapped around by 3 or 4 people without control, then good luck to you, you get the rebound.
That is as we are directed by BA for NBL & ABL Games. BA want credits for almost all rebounds, team rebounds are not wanted.
I don't recall this happening with Oscar, but an example would be that if Mavs put up a shot and Oscar got his hand to the ball & was then fouled before he gained control, he is credited with the Defensive Board as it is demmed only that the Foul caused him to not control the rebound.

Similar to the 3 touches = mark in football. Thanks for the clarification.

What happens when (and this happened in the game I think) Benson is going for a defensive rebound but the tussle/tip accidentally causes the ball to go in? Are the points credited to the last offensive player to touch it?

Usually stats check with scorers who get the official word from the refs, if there is a doubt. One of the reasons those two groups try and sit close to each other.

Scores and Fouls have to agree on score sheets and Box Scores.

If they can not decide on who gets the points, then they go to the captain of the offensive team.

Charmaine, "one eyed Mavs supporters", is that a bit of bitterness I sense there because of the previous week's game between Mavericks and Tigers? Joel has played consistently well all season. The only thing he is lacking for the NBL is height. There is not much you can do to improve on that.

Legally, anyway ;)

send him my way! I'll make him higher!!

He'll need a fair bit!

The people who think he's good enough need to stop smokin' it! I am have shares in a detox progam. I give you there number if you like!

Bags for sale, and a helping hand in time of need!

EC,
i dont think height will stop anyone getting to nbl....all i am saying is that someone like campbell is so much better than goodenough it is not funny...warhurst has had a much better season than goodenough anyway.....did not mention one tigers name, so i dont no what you are talking about....
thoughts EC??

Thanks J bags, when I need it, you'll be the first to know. Charmaine, just wondered what you meant by your "one eyed Mavs supporters" comments. I didn't show any bias towards Joel just because he plays for the Mavericks, I've always thought he does a good job, particularly because his height gives him no advantage.

i think joel could be a sixer even if it is just the squad because if you look at some of the people in the sixers squad eg. will foster he is alot better. cambell is better but not by a great deal if they both had there best games there wouldnt be alot of difference. on the matter of height it doesnt make that much difference as a guard as long as you can shoot play d, dribble the ball and do a descent job at it, consintantly.