I don't hate the guy for what he is doing. I regularly scratch my at times wondering what the hell is going on with some of his choices.

But I'm certainly not doing what I was doing with Ninnis where I'm yelling out to run a Press or Zone when it's blatantly obvious to run it.

This may just be a trial year for him and he'll start being a harder/better coach next year. You'd have to speak to him behind closed doors to find out what the "3-year" plan really is.

While we all have very valid reasons to criticize him; I somehow doubt a man with his coaching background and sporting background is blind to most of what we're demanding and what he's seeing.

: brought some young guys to the club

: trying to establish a plan not a year by year proposition.

: creeks development this year

: unearthing daly

: bring back carter

: moved quickly on new imports

thats some of the stuff ive been very happy to see this year.

obviously problems with

: balls out of position ( lol what?)

: lack of height on court at times

: lack of a real experienced tall ( causing the problems above)

: sustaining intensity during entire game ( a young team and that style breaking down)

: stagnant offence

most of that comes down to one good centre being the difference. with the imports a think shannon is ok but howard has struggled. i can see he is a very good player but looks great when in transition and we arnt a fast run and gun type league.

I think a huge expectation has been put on Clarke from fans and staff. Yes i do agree he has been paid to do this job but dont forget this is his first time at coaching a professional team. This year has not just been a teething season for the young ones on the team but also for Clarke and i personally think he will take a lot from this season and change his playing strategy, however i could be wrong. the team and coach are rookies and if next season is just as disappointing as this one then ill really question his ability to coach an NBL team.

why cant clarke come out more publically and explain his three years plan in more detail then maybe the general public will have a better understadning of what he is trying to acheive!! and therefore be on board a bit more......would be a good move by the club i think to avoid people jumping ship!!

The more you say, the more people will criticise. Not worth it. Shouldn't have even mentioned a multi-year plan in public. Every coach would have one, of course. Look at how long the "six weeks to gel" meme ran.

As for what he's achieved: probably not as much as he hoped. Got Creek who is probably the most ready player in that age group. Got Carter and Bruce into the team. Got a bit more out of Hill. But none of the imports have really shone and this final roster isn't balanced at all. Hopefully he loses the stubbornness and makes the right changes.

He made a huge bet with Daniel Johnson becoming the centre this team desparately needs,
and at this stage so far it looks like that bet has failed.

lol how has Daniel Johnson failed or Clarke for that matter. We have a team that can develop into some awesome home grown talent. Previous years fans have complained we were a old team now we have youth an everyone still complains. and obviously with youth comes a few bad decisions/plays but ya cop it for the moment.

With the core of Carter/DJ/Creek an even Daly we are headed in the right direction. An if it wasnt for Clarke being here i really doubt we would have 1/2 the young players we do.

Sure we arent contendin for top 4 spot its easy to pull out the negatative, but geez its seems like even if we went undefeated there is always someone saying something is crap or why do they do this.

I said 'at this stage so far'

DJ has shown glimses, but he needs to be more of a physical presense on the boards, but he is still young. With time, {3 years?} if he becomes an established starting centre who takes up space in the paint, then this whole thread and conversation will be a forgotten one.

What choice do we have but have to believe in Clarke?
Upcoming talent, give me a break. Daly, if he continues, was just a fluke for Clarke.
IMO the Sixers are a joke and have been for a long time - too long. I've supported them, bought tickets, being a season ticket holder, bought singlets, t-shirts, dragged friends to games, etc but it's gone on too long without any light at the end of the tunnnel.

I'm taking the kids to the netball and watching ONE HD for my basketball fix.

And I'm pi..ed off about it.

eh, i was happy clarke came, and i am happy to keep going to games even though we have had several very sub-standard games because i believe we are going somewhere.

i would say there have been mistakes imo, and there have been things that have gone right as well.

we have a right to expect better than what was put up against gc the other night, but i see have some faith, just also im opinionated on what we need as well.

ps, daly a fluke?? ok its too early to call daly a made man at this stage but marty has put him on stage for big minutes this season you cant ridicule marty then say he cant get props for daly's season!

IF the young guys continue to improve and we can get some guys coming back from college in the US.
Then Clarke was a good signing.

Some of his rotations are strange, but he seems to be trying to give everyone court time.
This is ok at times, but if someone is hot leave them on and milk them.
Still not using Balls enough on offense, but neither did Ninnis.
Also just start Johnson for the rest of the year!!!!
See what he can do, so we know for next year.

And just go run and gun.
We have Shannon, Howard, Hill, Daly and Creek plus Johnson and Balls are quick for their size.
So try to get some advantage over the opposition.
We have lost a lot of shooting so passing it around for 15 seconds and then jacking up a 3pt shot isn't going to cut it.

8 second rule, get a good shot before the other team has their D setup. ie Suns or Knicks in NBA.


Considering the quality of imports across all the teams this season. I would be happy with an all Aussie team next year.
At least you will then be confident you know how the players will perform.
Pumping 1/4 of the cap into 2 players that may have to be replaced, seems like a big risk.

Illicit - don't know about you, but I still paid full price for my season tickets and thought that I was going to see a competative NBL team - not a work in progress that has shown very little of what the coach has told us to be patient for.

This isn't junior district, designed for development! That said, I agree that the team needs some youngsters to develop - BUT not in key positions, thereby forcing other players to play out of position.

All a moot point really - don't think Clarke is going to conceed he was wrong and we will have the same crap until he gets the boot.

Clarke has acheived a couple of good things

Bringing in a couple of good young players to build around i.e Creek, Johnson, Bruce, Carter, Daly all who will/could/should be starters or in the main rotation for years to come IMO, and in doing so we now have probably the best 2 u/24 players in the league in Johnson and Creek.

Clarke also has had us fairly competitive overall against most teams, sure we got smacked by the Gold Coast, but we have been in most games, if we had 2 better imports all season, Ah i miss the Mee and Brooks days, we would have been atleast a handful of wins higher. Also remember no teams have done really well on imports this year, i think Cairns and NZ seem to have done best, and is probably a large part of the reason why they have done very well.

We also have a young and exciting/interesting team, what would people rather see our gruop of developing young guys play, and hopefully improve in the future, or a group of re-treads/vetrans put together, which is what Phil got criticised in the past, personally im happy to see the young guys.

Sure we havnt changed much wins and losses,but IMO if we can retain the best of our group, add in a couple of boomer(ish) (most current 2010 WC's boomers are overseas or guys like Gibson and Martin who i think would be very very hard to get) level talent such as Schenscher, and soemone like a Weigh, Wagstaff, Majok or Harvey, have better luck with imports or get star Aussies instead of imports we will be ok, id probably only look to add in 3-4 (Keep atleast Ballinger, Johnson, Creek, Bruce, Daly and/or Carter and consider Herbert and/or Hill) adding players ie Schenscher, Magden, and 2 new imports or guys like Weigh, Wagstaff, Majok, Harvey (instead of imports) depending on what position we are looking for.

Clark need to learn to be flexible and to adjust when its needed. Someone else pointed out he is to stubborn and I agree 100%, he needs to be open to new ideas and opinions.
Right now his game plan hasnt worked, but we see the same thing week in week out..That to me is the most frustrating thing this year.
Clark needs to grow up alot before next year!!
I also think part of the imports/older players failure lies directly in Clark. Both Shannon and Howard came here with good numbers, Shannon had a proven track record and Howard came with excellent recommendations. Several times Ive seen Howard slashing and being effective, to be told to stay in the corner and just pop up three's!!!! then his game is wholly nullified. He has never looked comfortable in this teams structure, and I blame that wholly on Clarks refusal to let him play his natural game, and force his own ideas on him.
Shannon as well hasnt performed as he is recorded to have done so in Europe, and this again I blame on Clarks inability to coach and respect older players.
He has been training kids for to long and hasnt seemed to be able to change his attitude when it comes to experienced players.
Personnally a assistant coach with the balls to say to Clark..WTF would be REALLY handy right now for Clarks own development.

Spinner, at home (the full price tickets you got), they have been competitive with a 7-4 record. ;)

He has achieved a bottome three finish.

We can talk around it all we want, but it comes down to Ws and Ls.

Spinner ive been a season member for about the past 5 season so i know the pain we've had as 6ers diehards, but cmon this season we've beaten perth in perth an at home, made competitive games against the breakers at home, an bar 2 or 3 games we've played well.

I'm the first to say 6ers shouldnt have their away games aired on ONE HD cos everytime we get smashed lol. But at least this year i can look at our squad an say it has a future, and i give that to Marty Clarke. Previous yrs we have been avg an had no talent to improve with.

With a nucleus an improvement of Carter/Creek/Johnson an some other new pickups (im not gonna call out any players to leave but obviously something more needs to be done). And i think as we all wish i hope Ballinger can get back to the 4 spot where he can dominate again.

Maybe im a optimist but it the only team i got lol

Yes - fantastic that we have a squad that MIGHT do well in the future...the problem is that they aren't signed!!!! They are on one or two year contracts and the coach admits to a three year plan?

To use the NBL as a development stage for players who will move on to Europe or be taken by other teams who actually want to win this year, just doesn't make any sense!

I have only had my season tickets for 12 years, but I am sure there are plenty who have been loyal for longer who are also puzzled by this coach and his team.

Fans do vote with their feet. I didn't renew my crows tickets this season, and after watching the game againt Melbourne, I realised that was a good decision.

Spinner, I read your posts and think they sound familiar. Its exactly what I say. I go to atleast 12 ABA games each year as a fill in to the off season of the NBL. I enjoy it because its what I expect to see at that level. When it comes to the 36ers, I expect a professional level of basketball with much excitement. Another season has almost gone and I can't say I have enjoyed it too much. You develop your juniors into NBL players by having them train with the professionals. You do not need to have them taking control of the game when they are clearly inexperienced. I really think that Creek and Daly have played the minutes that they have because of the lack of good imports. Clarke needs to separate junior development from what is expected at NBL level. What Clarke is doing is placing tickets on himself by bringing in the best students he had at the AIS and is now putting them on the NBL stage for all to see what he has achieved with them. He may be very good at it but its not his responsibility to provide the whole nation with players of the future. Not one of them will guarantee that they will stay with the 36ers. When you start talking about money, most players will choose the money over loyalty. I don't know what Clarke has planned for next season because none of his current juniors will have reached the level needed to make up a championship team. In fact you can't even do it in the 3 years. It takes a lot longer.

illicit

Spinner ive been a season member for about the past 5 season so i know the pain we've had as 6ers diehards, but cmon this season we've beaten perth in perth an at home, made competitive games against the breakers at home, an bar 2 or 3 games we've played well.

I imagine Radford scouted Perth pretty well.
Anyways , there's a few young ones here.
Johnson , very young and probably a good back up Center to an Ira Clark or so and maybe a bitta back up to Ballinger at PF.
Carter Bruce might be a bit rusty with their time off
and Daly just starting out.
Don't think we needed any Import guards here.
Probably about the same win loss as last season and Sunday was the worst I've seen.

EC's post is a good summary of the situation.

We need a team that can win now and not in three years time. SOS need to start building around big Luke. I'd look at Ira Clarke over Balls. I'd keep Dowdell and Holmes and let Johnson walk. I would have Herbet and Creek at the 3 and release Hill. I would have an import PG such as Ty McKee and Daley with Ng and Carter at the 2 spot.

Skud, it is possible you are right that Clarke has not managed the older imports very well, but I don't see enough evidence to be convinced. Howard has shown me he can do ONE thing well: finish at the rim in the open court using the same frickin move every time. He doesn't seem to have a plan B if the defender shuts that move off.

His defence is average at best, he doesn't really rebound very well, he is very hit and miss with his jumper, can't create off the dribble and doesn't make other players around him better. All in all, I think he has had plenty of opps to make an impact and has failed dismally. The only thing I fault Clarke for is bothering to play him at all.

With Shannon, I don't really how Clarke's supposed inability to deal with older players has prevented him from performing. After a bright start, I think Shannon has just been found out a little defensively by some of the better NBL guards.

I do think Clarke has not managed to imprint his game plan into the minds of his players as effectively as he needs to.

Defensively, players still get lost in their rotations and switching on screens all the time has not worked. This chaos has contributed to our inability to put a body on players and get the rebound.

Offensively, the team is not able to run the plays Clarke wants under pressure, which is why when good teams go on a run, the wheels fall off and we have epic scoring droughts. I think a big part of this comes down to our bigs setting better screens in the right spots and at the right angles to allow our guards to get free. Too often, opposing players are able to bully their way through screens, or it is set to no advantage. When our bigs pop or roll, how is it that they rarely manage to get themselves open? When they do, half the time our guards can't thread the pass.

Without seeing Clarke's methods in action, its really hard to know why some of these things are not coming together, but this season will have been a big learning experience for him. All we can hope is that he has soaked it all in and will work really hard in the offseason to refine his game plan and methods.

I'm still pulling for him. As far as I am aware, Beveridge is probably the only current coach in the NBL who stepped in and had success straight away? You gotta have some really good players at your disposal though, which Bevo did. It takes time to hone your methods. Even the almighty Goorjian didn't have success straight away!

So much is made of this "coach of juniors" thing, but only Johnson really fitted that amongst the original signings. Ng has been around for a while (28 yo), Holmes too, DeVries is a veteran, Ballinger a veteran, Herbert isn't that young, nor Carter (nearing 27). Winder would be nearing 27 now too. Dowdell is filler who doesn't chew up points cap. Hill isn't really a rookie (24-25ish), more akin to someone like Dann. Creek only came in to replace Herbert, and Daly only elevated because he showed composure at a time when guards were injured. IMO, Creek and Daly have done fine considering.

Johnson was brutally efficient last year (especially once against Adelaide when most of us would've seen him first-hand) but for whatever reason hasn't played bulk minutes this year (defensive concerns maybe).

Beantown, how many times have the starters been burnt on D compared to the bench? We've made some really strong runs as a collective group when the bench has been on. Against Gold Coast, that initial 12 point deficit was against our starters before a single sub had been made.

At 2:55 left in the first, we were down 12. Shannon stayed on, rest of the starters went off. When the subs came in, they held it around that mark.

Before the end of the quarter, Daly came in for Shannon so we were effectively running "the kids" - Johnson, Creek, Daly with Carter and Dowdell. Deficit still 12 at the first break. Daly and Creek are about 19ish. Johnson is 22-23!

First starters (Ballinger and Shannon) come back in with 6:56 left in the second. Deficit is 16. It goes out to 26 during which period Howard and Hill come back in. Johnson is the only benchie out there for the entirety of that run I think.

Eventually, the margin goes out as far as 32 before a final run flatters Adelaide finishing 16 down.

Ron Howard's +/- in this game was -24. For me, he has been the biggest disappointment this season - undersized, not sticking the three, looked good from the stripe in his first game but has faded to be one of our worst (we're actually a great FT% team). If he passed on fast breaks, you could cut his PPG in half.

(Mucking around with the boxscore data for the hell of it.)

Teys (Gold Coast human cigar) came in with 2:27 remaining. The Adelaide +/-s prior to that point (e.g., excluding the 12-0 run we had to finish the game) are:

Shannon -26
Howard -24
Ballinger -23
Holmes -16
Hill -14
Johnson -12
Creek -7
Daly -5
Carter -2
Dowdell -1

Minutes played impacts this, but the youngest players (you know, those woeful guys Clarke is wasting his time on before they go to Europe or take an offer elsewhere) are at the good end of that list.

Order of players in terms of minutes played, though remember that these numbers include the final 2:27:

Ballinger (30:22)
Hill (22:51)
Shannon (22:16)
Carter (21:32)
Creek (20:21)
Holmes (18.45)
Howard (18:19)
Johnson (17:46)
Daly (14:41)
Dowdell (13:07)

Carter was just -2 despite playing decent minutes (did play that final 2:27, so would've had +8 for the game). Howard was -24 despite playing 18:19 (didn't play the final 2:27).

Edit: More of this to procrastinate:

Players ranked by negative contribution to the margin per minute played (excluding final 2:27):

Howard (-1.31)
Shannon (-1.16)
Holmes (-0.85)
Ballinger (-0.82)
Johnson (-0.78)
Hill (-0.69)
Daly (-0.41)
Creek (-0.34)
Carter (-0.10)
Dowdell (-0.08)

Kids at the bottom FWIW.

(Obviously none of this factors in who else was on court at the time from the Blaze, besides excluding the garbage minutes.)

And a final one for those curious, not ranked or timed:

Ballinger and Johnson on together: -8
Ballinger only: -15
Johnson only: -2
Neither: +1 (minute and a half - let's play without any centres! ;))

Both Ballinger and Johnson were on together for that final 2:27 which was +10 against a frontcourt of Majok and Garlepp. If you want, you could adjust that combined -8 to +2. Might be interesting to look at this for other games too.

Isaac, I noticed that our starters were the ones that dug us a big hole against the Blaze too. I can recall thinking in several games this year that it has been our bench that has looked better than our starters!

I'm not surprised DJ had a decent plus minus, because he was scoring pretty easily on the undersized Blaze. Offence is not his problem though. He needs to get better defensively and work out how to stop getting pushed around as well. I suspect it is lack of core strength, which is understandable in a young guy. But we'll see, X could be right, he could just be soft!

I like our young guys. For the first time in a long time I feel I am seeing a nucleus of young players on the Sixers with a future. Now if we could mesh them with a couple of the ones we've let get away like Schenscher and Madgen I think we will start looking pretty good again.

Beantown my biggest issue is that when Howard plays his game, he is stopped by Clark and put into the corner to launch three's, which arent working, yet still we try and try and try and fail. Let the guy play his game and run some plays to his strenghts, not his weakness's. He does this to Hill as well, who thankfully has been hitting a few lately, thou Hill actually has set plays ran for him, Im still to see one for Howard.

Shannon is bringing the ball down the court and staring at defenders infront of our players. So once again were not utilising his passing game by getting a running offence, were stagnant and after almost half a season..thats the coaches fault for failing to train the players properly.

I dont see that we are playing to the players strenghts, which for older players is well established. Right now it appears Clark has a plan and everyone should change their game, form of playing, style, ability, to suit it.

Ballinger is constantly playing out of position, seriously put him where he was one of the top players in the league and stop thinking you know better than his stats over the years have shown. This might be somewhere Isaac's obsession with +/- stats would be handy lol.

I would be happy to keep Clark if he hadnt shown himself to be so absolutely stubborn in his game plans. Right now thought I dont see that he is going to change at all for next season, and I will waste my money again, with the hope he has.
Ive generally never missed a game, Im now looking at missing the next 3 for work, something in 8 years I have made sure never happens.

Im so freaking frustrated and really need to write messages when im not half asleep, I always wonder if these make sense later lol

Beantown and Isaac both deserve little basketballs (bring back the basketballs Isaac!). Excellent posts, that have made more sense than anything I have read here for a while.

As for Howard, I have seen nothing to suggest he has any moves other than his step left fast break layup (which is so predictable he should have run into a half dozen charges by now). Worse still, he makes that play every time even when there is a teammate in a better position in the passing lane. Stat padder.

Big call, but bring back Cortez Groves. At half the player he once was, Cortez was still a better player than Howard. If you doubt it, check the stats:

CORTEZ GROVES: 26 MPG, 10 PPG, 38% FG, 25% 3P, 69% FT, 3.5 APG, 2.9 RPG, 0.6 ST, 2.4 TO

RON HOWARD: 22.7 MPG, 9.7 PPG, 39% FG, 33% 3P, 65% FT, 1.5 APG, 2.3 RPG, 0.7 ST, 3.1 TO

I would take Cortez's additional assists, boards, defence, fewer turnovers, and better playmaking over Howards three point shooting so far (which aint exactly pretty). Yes, we are talking about Cortez, the guy who stunk it up all last year for his sub-par performances (which were poor, no complaint from me on that).

But Howard is a one trick pony, and has been totally found out. And if I hear one more person defending him by saying it is Clarke's fault as he doesn't run any plays for him - rediculous. Howard has shown no ability to contribute to any half court sets nor to read the game whatsoever. He has no ability to break down a defence and is not a slashing guard by any measure.

If Cortez was the worst import we have ever had, what does that make Howard?

I don't see Howard standing in the corner that often. Certainly not enough to explain his impact on the game.

Forget Groves, I'd take back Winder in Howard's role and leave PG duties to our (now) four actual point guards.

Craig Winder  35.2% FG   16.0% 3P   86.7% FT   4.1 RPG   2.8 APG   10.1 PPG
Ron Howard    39.0% FG   33.3% 3P   65.9% FT   2.3 RPG   1.5 APG   9.7 PPG

I have been wondering why Clarke hasn't been playing Dowdell as much as he did in the first half of the season, given that the guy basically never does anything wrong and that we generally do well when he is out there.

In some respects I am not surprised by our poor-performing imports this season: given that Clarke has been coaching kids at the AIS what in all honesty would he know about picking imports? This isn't meant as a knock on him, in fact it is quite possibly the one thing he was going to have to learn on the job more than any other aspect of coaching at the NBL level. But, DeVries, Winder, Shannon, Howard - these guys have all been flops. None of them is as good a ball player as Paris McCurdy was, and he was shithouse.

I am not surprised with the +/- on Balls. Though he's statiscally our best player I still remain unconvinced that we are ever going to win anything with him as our marquee player. Likewise, as much as I like Jacob Holmes' hustle and work ethic I don't believe any team he starts on is going to seriously challenge for a title.

I like what I've seen from Creek and Daly thus far, but we can only expect so much from them. If someone can get Johnson to just man up then he will be a genuinely great player in this league. If not then he is Axel Dench with less range on his jumpshot.

Mutley, with all due respect to DJ, he would be Axel Dench with less range on his jumpshot but more agility closer to the basket - but point taken re the defensive end.

What's with the pining for groves and winder? Standards people standards! ;-)
Shockingly, if the sixers had listened to calls to bring back farley we probably would have been better off and that is tragic!

Saw Johnson's stats over last two years in NBL By the Numbers and thought I'd check RPG for minutes played in case anyone was interested:

Johnson's rebounding is down from 4.3 RPG last season to 3.0 RPG this season. That 3.0 RPG adjusted for MPG (playing less minutes this season - doubt he expected that when he signed) comes to about 3.3 RPG.

That's a good point Isaac - what would Johnson have been told when he signed? He probably thought it was going to be alright being the only true centre on the team. What a shame Clarke won't give him decent minutes.

Ironic really, Clarke is all about development, but leaves him on the bench!

Isaac It could be a case of not having enough consecutive minutes for the reason for a decline in rebounds. I would imagine someone would get more rebounds in playing 8 consecutive minutes rather then 4 quarters of 2 minutes each time.

Either way I wish they would just start him and give him 30 minutes to see what he can do.

Spinner, did you read the +/- stuff I wrote highlighting the younger vs older players? Any thoughts?